Agreed, it's not a very comfortable position to be in..
But sadly, this is where the FDA will be driving it into if they succeed..
Take a good look at the Prohibition era & all the vile, dangerous stuff that went on during that time...
FDA "Deeming Regulations" Simplified
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Agreed, it's not a very comfortable position to be in..
But sadly, this is where the FDA will be driving it into if they succeed..
Take a good look at the Prohibition era & all the vile, dangerous stuff that went on during that time...
While Bill seems to be a bit rough around the edges, and I wish we could have heard more from the others, I'm still glad he's been out there fighting for us...
I think the caller started it with Bill. He clearly had it on for Bill and tried to berate him. That caller had no idea what he was talking about and wanted to make Bill look like an idiot. All he done was make a fool out of himself.
That caller sounded to me like he thought Bill was using the vaping issue for his personal political agenda encouraging voters to overturn those in power in upcoming elections because that's pretty much what he first started talking about. I see some here jumping up saying "don't vote on a single issue (like vaping)" so that, clearly, Bill bringing up voting goes against their grain. I, personally, don't see him as doing that. Its simply logical that whomever, from whatever party, that holds the power has us currently in this situation so or they would stop what's happening and could do so comparatively easily... yeh, so whether its your historically chosen party or not get them out. Politics always sets people off pretty quick-trigger but I think Bill just doesn't share the process of his thinking and just summarizes it, thus I take no offense. I don't label him politically... what he says is, as I said, just logical to me.
BTW, I asked before and no one has answered: Does anyone remember the rest of this: "The House Energy........." that Bill said to contact?
BTW, I asked before and no one has answered: Does anyone remember the rest of this: "The House Energy........." that Bill said to contact?
I seem to recall an answer somewhere in one of the threads..
But a quick search brings up: House Energy and Commerce Committee
I'm assuming that's what you're looking for...
Nonsense. A bit overzealous perhaps but nothing more than that.
Did we listen to the same broadcast?
I think Bill sounded foolish myself and took things *way* too personally. He's articulate, knowledgeable and knows his stuff so I'm a bit surprised he allowed a caller to push his buttons like that. (Instead of dismantling the caller's argument).
That caller sounded to me like he thought Bill was using the vaping issue for his personal political agenda encouraging voters to overturn those in power in upcoming elections because that's pretty much what he first started talking about. I see some here jumping up saying "don't vote on a single issue (like vaping)" so that, clearly, Bill bringing up voting goes against their grain. I, personally, don't see him as doing that. Its simply logical that whomever, from whatever party, that holds the power has us currently in this situation so or they would stop what's happening and could do so comparatively easily... yeh, so whether its your historically chosen party or not get them out. Politics always sets people off pretty quick-trigger but I think Bill just doesn't share the process of his thinking and just summarizes it, thus I take no offense. I don't label him politically... what he says is, as I said, just logical to me.
BTW, I asked before and no one has answered: Does anyone remember the rest of this: "The House Energy........." that Bill said to contact?
Edit: Huh? Why am I seeing this twice?
BTW, I asked before and no one has answered: Does anyone remember the rest of this: "The House Energy........." that Bill said to contact?
Edit: Huh? Why am I seeing this twice?
Thanks! Just went to their site and viewing what's there, looks that way. Now to see if any of my reps are on it.
Nah but I'll write anyway after direction:
"The Committee on Energy and Commerce, the oldest standing legislative committee in the U.S. House of Representatives, is vested with the broadest jurisdiction of any congressional authorizing committee. Today it has responsibility for the nation's telecommunications, consumer protection, food and drug safety, public health research, environmental quality, energy policy, and interstate and foreign commerce. It oversees multiple cabinet-level Departments and independent agencies, including the Departments of Energy, Health and Human Services, Commerce, and Transportation, as well as the Environmental Protection Agency, the Federal Trade Commission, the Food and Drug Administration, and the Federal Communications Commission."
Looks like Bill knows his in and outs.
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I see some on ECF still don't want to acknowledge the reality that vaping has been made a political issue by one particular part of one particular party. That is not an opinion, that is a FACT. The war on vaping began, not coincidentally, in 2009 when a new administration began at the federal level. The same administration that appointed a lobbyist for the Big Pharm industry to oversee the tobacco regulation part of the FDA. The only national politicians repeatedly calling for vaping to be banned are from the left of the party in power. Some like to pretend that is not reality. That type of pretending simply allows this type of nanny-state policies to be expanded to every aspect of our lives.
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Bill has been straight forward and has not deviated from his educated opinions since I've been on this forum. He did mention, to the caller/instigator, he would be happy do discuss the issues, he was not interested in personal attacks. This was AFTER being compared to a cult leader. He has done nothing but help and fight for this industry, and traveled to several parts of the country for us. How about cutting him some slack! It it funny how we all listened to the same program and got something different from it. We do not all have to agree with him, but lets not forget which side he has been on for several years!
And how messed up we would be without his knowledge of the working of political and government agencies.
The guys knows his way around and has resources that will be helpful to our cause. Even if he did lose his cool for a minute, we all have at one time or another. It is becoming clear that some would rather him not be on this forum. A big mistake in judgment as far as I'm concerned!
He said to contact members of the "House Energy and Commerce Committee" -- especially the Republicans members. He said these are the people in the House with oversight of the FDA.
Later he says especially ALL vapors in Michigan and Pennsylvania should contact:
Fred Upton, chairman MI
Joe Pits, sub-committee chair, PA
Tim Murphy, sub-committee chair, PA
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I know it wasn't you that said it, but for those that did...
Bill is a valued member, not only of this forum, but of the vaping community in general. He's been advocating on behalf of vaping/vapers since before most of us knew ecigs existed. He's not going anywhere.
Probably a bad analogy but I look at Bill's change of views like a David Horowitz, but in the THR realm. He was a strong advocate on both sides, but now is on ours. He likely still hates BT, but harm reduction is his higher value. Regardless of his past, you have to give him that, imo. Both him and Siegel get 'comments' from former peers (perhaps friends) - that can't be fun.
Exactly right.
Cult leader???
BTW, I have lost it too trying to debate that caller here, on ECF. And so have many otherwise calm and well-spoken ECF members who have been trying to reason with him.
Got my first infraction in four years because of him.BTW, I have lost it too trying to debate that caller here, on ECF. And so have many otherwise calm and well-spoken ECF members who have been trying to reason with him.
Now I mostly just skip over his posts without reading them so that my blood pressure remains somewhat stable.
Poor Rodger is still "fighting the good fight" over there, I sense his exit is coming too!Congratulations!
Yeah, I have just formally renounced my membership in the Tin Foil Hat Club. My blood pressure is low and I want it to stay this way.
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