Dept. Of transportation bans e-cigs on airlines

[kristin]

Just playing devil's advocate here, but it's known on these forums that even some vapers have allergies to PG. PG is known to be an irritant to the eyes, nose and throat for some people, as well. Granted, the plane's air circulation should be able to handle it and it's a highly unlikely scenario, but if enough people have devices capable of producing copious amounts of vapor in such a small space, it could feasibly cause real discomfort for some other passengers.

 

[Crumpet]

What I'm reading here is that we should just accept that whatever regulations have been passed for cigarettes should apply to E Cigs. Yes, it's not good to vape on a plane because.... Yes, we really shouldn't vape where smoking is not permitted, because..... Yes, we should not be able to get a job because..... Yes, we should be subject to outside bans on beaches and in parks because...... BECAUSE WHY?

Look, this really doesn't matter in the least to me. I'm constantly being asked where my PV is because most of the time it doesn't come out of my pocket anymore. However, when I was vaping I was vaping anywhere and everywhere I went and I educated people around me. I got a lot of people to look into them and some bought and most fell back on cigarettes because they didn't "get it" and weren't willing to spend the time to.

You've got to look at what you're doing and decide if you want to accept the plan that the government and the ?non-profit?"health" organizations have for your new found hobby. These will be effectively banned, back door as it seems to be occurring lately, wherever cigarettes are banned. Hopefully IVAQS will be completed and show there is no harm from SHV, but I would quess that in short order the antis will create their own studies that will negate the results of a totally user financed one.

This isn't about potential harm, it's about control and inch by inch they're winning. Tuesday will be one year since I had a puff on a cigarette and maybe a month since I pulled my PV out of my jacket pocked. None of this is going to matter to be personally, but I sure hate to see those of you that still like using your PV but under the same umbrella with smokers.

Aunt Esther is in complete agreement with everything you said. If we accommodate too much then we are, at least complicitly, validating the fear mongering. It is correct (from an eariler poster) that the FDA is trying to nip e-cigs in the bud before too many people get wind of them and love them like we do....and they know that will happen. Same with all these bans: banning should NEVER be the default, only a last resort. If the antis can get these banned (in public, on planes, etc) then they send a subliminal message to Joe Public that these things must be bad, otherwise why would they be banned? It is an attempt to squelch the popularity to avoid loss of revenue to BP or BT since the Federal court has forbidden them from banning them out of existence. So, fear mongering is the next best thing.

Also, I'm sick of all the pearl clutching going on in this increasingly alarmist culture we live in, and I do not just blame the government or the media. Our citizens simply became too comfortable, and they started taking things for granted. They became less diligent and therefore less informed. Somewhere along the line someone sent out a memo that if you do everything by the book and never, ever color outside the lines then you will live to be 1,000 years old and nothing bad will ever happen to you. If you read Shakespeare to your unborn child, stay at home full-time, breastfeed exclusively for at least 4 years, never let them play outside, teach them 7 languages by the time they enter kindergarten, only feed them organic food and don't let them ever see someone puffing on a stick then you will be the proud parent of the smartest, most unique snowflake ever which of course makes you the best parent ever. Then you can micromanage every aspect of their lives while they try to grow up: put them in 5 daily after school activities until they graduate, then you can go and sit with them in class when they go to college and you can argue with their professors when they don't make straight As.

It's hyperbolic for sure, but isn't this the same kind of micromanaging, helicopter parenting we're getting increasingly from our own government? Yes, I blame the public. I blame them for being lazy and naive and wanting to be spoonfed sanitized information delivered in a pretty, Hollywood style package, sensationalism included. I blame people for not being more willing to question what they hear and read and for being stupid enough to think that their government would never be guilty of propoganda, greed, and lies like in all those 'bad' countries. Then, they are the first to ..... about their rights after they've already lost them and demand to know how such a thing could happen.

exit soapbox........

 

[rothenbj]

Crump, precisely and I loved S & S, watched it syndicated when you didn't have to wait a week to see an episode.

 

[dertbv]

As long as it is made clean at security that that are not a banned item, i wont have a problem. But I do not like the idea of packing them away in checked baggage. To many times you hear horror stories of items disappearing from it. As for not taking a hit or two on the plane that is what restrooms are for.

 

[Vocalek]

Just playing devil's advocate here, but it's known on these forums that even some vapers have allergies to PG. PG is known to be an irritant to the eyes, nose and throat for some people, as well. Granted, the plane's air circulation should be able to handle it and it's a highly unlikely scenario, but if enough people have devices capable of producing copious amounts of vapor in such a small space, it could feasibly cause real discomfort for some other passengers.

That would take quite a few vapers. Only 20% of the population smokes, and most smokers are in the lower economic brackets. So smokers who travel in airplanes might be what...10% at most? And how many of them have converted to vaping?

And then there is the chemical composition. I have found that PG based liquids don't produce nearly as much vapor as VG. So I'm just thinking that a plane filled up with vapor isn't likely to happen anytime soon.

 

[Vocalek]

Also, I'm sick of all the pearl clutching going on in this increasingly alarmist culture we live in, and I do not just blame the government or the media. Our citizens simply became too comfortable, and they started taking things for granted. They became less diligent and therefore less informed. Somewhere along the line someone sent out a memo that if you do everything by the book and never, ever color outside the lines then you will live to be 1,000 years old and nothing bad will ever happen to you. If you read Shakespeare to your unborn child, stay at home full-time, breastfeed exclusively for at least 4 years, never let them play outside, teach them 7 languages by the time they enter kindergarten, only feed them organic food and don't let them ever see someone puffing on a stick then you will be the proud parent of the smartest, most unique snowflake ever which of course makes you the best parent ever. Then you can micromanage every aspect of their lives while they try to grow up: put them in 5 daily after school activities until they graduate, then you can go and sit with them in class when they go to college and you can argue with their professors when they don't make straight As.

Well why would you have to micromanage the children? Just get the government to ban anything that might be dangerous to children. Then you don't have to work so hard.

 

[Kurt]

Just to clarify, its ok to take them on board, just not use them? I can have packs of cigs in my carry on, as long as I don't light up. Or do I have to find another way entirely to get nic if I travel by plane? BTW, I happen to like snus more for in-flight than vaping anyway. Aside from it not soliciting unwanted questions, it gives a better kick for longer than furtively stealth vaping.

 

[kristin]

OMG Kurt, how DARE you circumvent smoking bans by using a smokeless alternative!! Don't you realize that if smokeless alternatives were all removed from the market (to protect kids of course) you'd actually quit smoking altogether, rather than just jones in flight and smoke about 6 cigarettes as soon as you got out of the airport?? LOL!

 

[757girl]

They just posted about this in out local news.

E-cigs won't be allowed on US flights | 13NEWS / WVEC.com | Hampton Roads Local News, Virginia News & Breaking News | wvec.com | News for Hampton Roads, Virginia

 

[throatkick]

the problem i have with the ban is that it's unreasonably catering to ignorance and fear, rather than offering a reasonable explanation, which actually exists.

IMHO.

E-cigs aside, until folks understand how powerful the statement above is, relatively little will change.

 

[Slickstick]

I believe you can't take them on board.
So if you want to take your pv to vegas vapefest or something, you will have to drive.
Kinda kills the suppliers rounds to meetups.
Anything that looks like a pipebomb you can forget it.
You might be able to sneak on a small e-cig.

 

[MoonRose]

Well why would you have to micromanage the children? Just get the government to ban anything that might be dangerous to children. Then you don't have to work so hard.

I have an even better idea, let's just let the government take all kids the day they are born and raise them in government run institutions where they can have complete control over their every waking and sleeping moment to ensure that the children are raised properly, at least what the government considers proper.

 

[PTJD]

I believe you can't take them on board.
So if you want to take your pv to vegas vapefest or something, you will have to drive.
Kinda kills the suppliers rounds to meetups.
Anything that looks like a pipebomb you can forget it.
You might be able to sneak on a small e-cig.

Where in the world did you get this? Can you please post a link?

 

[GregH]

Where in the world did you get this? Can you please post a link?

I'd like to know that too. Or is it just conjecture? All I've read has said that their use is prohibited (unless I've missed something). The use of regular cigarettes is prohibited, but you can take them on board with you.

 

[Thulium]

Just playing devil's advocate here, but it's known on these forums that even some vapers have allergies to PG. PG is known to be an irritant to the eyes, nose and throat for some people, as well. Granted, the plane's air circulation should be able to handle it and it's a highly unlikely scenario, but if enough people have devices capable of producing copious amounts of vapor in such a small space, it could feasibly cause real discomfort for some other passengers.

If 300 passengers aboard a Boeing 777 all vaped a full milliliter of e-liquid as fast as they can, the total amount of vapor would condense into a single coffee cup. Thats the equivalent of turning a halloween fog machine for 15 minutes. I think people will survive.

That said, as long as you are not seen blowing out visible vapor, there's nothing anyone could do to prevent you from vaping anywhere you like. In fact if you consider that most vapers uses less than a teaspoon (4.9ml) of liquid per day and heat it to about the temperature of coffee, it becomes clear that the reason we don't know exactly how dangerous e-cigarettes may be is the risks are almost too small to measure.

 

[JWebb]

May I ask, is this just a proposed law by Lautenberg, or are there regulations by DOT pending as well? Is this just a way for Pharma's and government to control, regulate and tax the vaping community?

 

[JWebb]

I just flew back on Continental yesteray from Houston adn carried mine in my jacket and went through secutiry and the screening with my bags just fine and took it on board. Also had my case full of eGo's and atty's and everything in my carryon and no problems. Was I lucky or is this going to be impossible to travel with my PV?

 

[Exylos]

I have an even better idea, let's just let the government take all kids the day they are born and raise them in government run institutions where they can have complete control over their every waking and sleeping moment to ensure that the children are raised properly, at least what the government considers proper.

Rose we had this experiment tried, and met your standards fully, It started world war two. Nazis living proof current standards are not going to work. Well at least they are good for something. chuckles.

 

[Scorched]

I'm going to have to say I agree with the decision to ban it on airlines. Although vaping in a public area is and should not be a problem; when you are in such a confined space the vapors and aromas can really bother people, even if they are harmless or not.

When I vape in the car with my non-smoker friends they ask me politley not to do it because it can irritate their eyes and things like that. I guess it could be similar to when someone latheres on WAY too much cologne... it's obnoxious.

 

[Vocalek]

May I ask, is this just a proposed law by Lautenberg, or are there regulations by DOT pending as well? Is this just a way for Pharma's and government to control, regulate and tax the vaping community?

This is a similar situation to what we saw in Virginia. The law on the books says that you can't smoke. The antis (in this case, Lautenberg and the DOT) are stretching the definition of "smoking" to include inhaling/exhaling vapor.

How the problem was solved in Virginia, when the VA Dept. of Health tried this trick, is that ECF's very own storyspinr got her state Assembly rep to formally ask the VA Attorney General to rule on whether or not vaping is covered by the indoor smoking ban. The AG ruled that, in the absence of a different definition in the law, the usual definition of "smoke" is what must prevail. Smoke cannot be made without setting something on fire. The Health Dept. also wanted to interpret "lighted" to include having an LED light up at the end of an e-cigarette. The AG said that "lighted" meant that the tobacco product was set on fire.

We need to track down the Federal law that banned smoking on airplanes (I believe that was passed in the mid to late 1980s) and see what the exact wording of the law is. If (as I suspect) the wording was very specific about smoked versus not smoked tobacco, then we might have to have several attorneys (and about 2000 vapers) write letters to the DOT.