Diacetyl

[Grrrr]

Sorry if this has been asked before, this is more for @Kent Brooks but felt it might be useful if the reply were visible to all, I did go back about 15 pages and couldn't find anything. I was curious as to whether Nicoticket do their own independent testing regarding the presence of Diacetyl in their e-liquid or if they rely on information supplied by the flavor vendors?

The reason for the question stems from this podcast: https://soundcloud.com/vp-live/is-suicide-bunny-chock-full-of-diacetyl-the-vapemania-dust-up
and the fact that I almost exclusively vape Nicoticket products.

As I understand it, one of the conditions for AEMSA membership is no Diacetyl in the e-liquid, are you now or in the future looking to join AEMSA and become a certified member?

Thanks

 

[Megan Kogijiki Ratchford]

He doesn't use it, it is some other substance...look on the juice site at CLS and he has info up there and yes, I believe he is a member. But again Clark can and will address this better.

 

[Augmented Dog]

There is a declaration on the website stating that their lab and practices follow AEMSA standards.

 

[Kent Brooks]

Sorry if this has been asked before, this is more for @Kent Brooks but felt it might be useful if the reply were visible to all, I did go back about 15 pages and couldn't find anything. I was curious as to whether Nicoticket do their own independent testing regarding the presence of Diacetyl in their e-liquid or if they rely on information supplied by the flavor vendors?

The reason for the question stems from this podcast: https://soundcloud.com/vp-live/is-suicide-bunny-chock-full-of-diacetyl-the-vapemania-dust-up
and the fact that I almost exclusively vape Nicoticket products.

As I understand it, one of the conditions for AEMSA membership is no Diacetyl in the e-liquid, are you now or in the future looking to join AEMSA and become a certified member?

Thanks

We use AEMSA equivalent processes, but we are missing on a few elements... particularly, labels - they have to survive 5 minutes in water (good luck with that on the current labels - trying to resolve that now). We haven't applied yet because we're not quite there yet, we're moving in that direction - we're anticipating an application by year end.

One of the conditions of AEMSA membership is no Diacetyl. We have secured and reviewed the 3rd party assays from our respective flavoring vendors and verified that the ingredients we use do not contain Diacetyl. So, I guess the answer to the question is yes and no - we rely on vendors assays, but, the assays aren't really from our vendors... the source of the documentation is from a 3rd party (Enthalpy). If the ingredients contain any other diketones (like acetyl propionyl and/or acetoin), we have declared it on the website in a neutral manner so as to make the consumer aware of the potential for elevated risk (despite no longitudinal research having been done on the effects of vaping any diketones, including diacetyl).

Applying for (and receiving) AEMSA certification is *definitely* something we anticipate applying for (and receiving). We have zero doubt it will go through.

 

[Grrrr]

Thanks for the detailed response, it's exactly what I hoped you'd say, good to hear you're not relying on information received from the flavor vendors as 1 of the points raised in the report by Dr F was that there was dishonestly regarding whether diacetyl was present in the flavors they provided.

Anyway, thanks Kent.

 

[Kent Brooks]

Thanks for the detailed response, it's exactly what I hoped you'd say, good to hear your not relying on information received from the flavor vendors as 1 of the points raised in the report by Dr F was that there was dishonestly regarding whether diacetyl was present in the flavors they provided.

Anyway, thanks Kent.

I think what they are mostly concerned about is that some vendors don't care to check at all, or that they simply fire off an email and ask (subsequently taking flavoring vendors at their word without any supporting documentation). Honestly, I haven't really experienced that - all of the vendors I have worked with (5 in total) have been extremely helpful and transparent with regard to the contents in the flavoring. We have nothing but the utmost respect for Dr. F, Dimitiri, and the other advocacy groups that are working to ensure that the risk associated with vaping is reduced to the lowest possible level - totally in agreeance.

We are actually initiating the process of a complete and total site remodel - one of the features of the new website - we going to upload the Enthalpy reports on all of our flavors. Not only is it the right thing to do, it's good marketing - a win-win regardless of how you look at it. I'm really looking forward to the site remodel - this is one of the features I am most excited about!

 

[Kent Brooks]

Also, as an aside - we've added Butyric Acid as one of the areas of concern.

 

[Sloth Tonight]

We are actually initiating the process of a complete and total site remodel - one of the features of the new website - we going to upload the Enthalpy reports on all of our flavors. Not only is it the right thing to do, it's good marketing - a win-win regardless of how you look at it. I'm really looking forward to the site remodel - this is one of the features I am most excited about!

that is awesome

 

[Pictor]

Not only is it the right thing to do, it's good marketing - a win-win regardless of how you look at it. I'm really looking forward to the site remodel - this is one of the features I am most excited about!

It's a brilliant thing to do! It'll make you stand out from the 'also ran's' too!

 

[pwheeler]

One of the reasons I only buy from NT is the transparency. Any possible hazards are clearly spelled out, unlike other vendors I've seen who just state "no diacetyl". I was at first concerned about it, but I still bought CB and CLS. I don't vape it daily and mostly use it to mix with others, so the amount I might possibly be getting is so minute that it's really insignificant. Clark has developed such a level of trust with his customers that I couldn't imagine changing to any other vendor. Just not going to happen! Thanks, Clark for all you and your team do, and appreciate your honesty in all things.

 

[Kent Brooks]

One of the reasons I only buy from NT is the transparency. Any possible hazards are clearly spelled out, unlike other vendors I've seen who just state "no diacetyl". I was at first concerned about it, but I still bought CB and CLS. I don't vape it daily and mostly use it to mix with others, so the amount I might possibly be getting is so minute that it's really insignificant. Clark has developed such a level of trust with his customers that I couldn't imagine changing to any other vendor. Just not going to happen! Thanks, Clark for all you and your team do, and appreciate your honesty in all things.

I don't know any other vendor that basicly tells you vaping isn't "safe." Technically I can't even say it's safer than a cigarette. Despite the fact that I personally disagree, my "official position" has to be that vaping should be assumed to be as harmful as smoking.

 

[LoveVanilla]

I think what they are mostly concerned about is that some vendors don't care to check at all, or that they simply fire off an email and ask (subsequently taking flavoring vendors at their word without any supporting documentation). Honestly, I haven't really experienced that - all of the vendors I have worked with (5 in total) have been extremely helpful and transparent with regard to the contents in the flavoring. We have nothing but the utmost respect for Dr. F, Dimitiri, and the other advocacy groups that are working to ensure that the risk associated with vaping is reduced to the lowest possible level - totally in agreeance.

We are actually initiating the process of a complete and total site remodel - one of the features of the new website - we going to upload the Enthalpy reports on all of our flavors. Not only is it the right thing to do, it's good marketing - a win-win regardless of how you look at it. I'm really looking forward to the site remodel - this is one of the features I am most excited about!

This is the kind of transparency that vapers MUST DEMAND from suppliers. Some have lied and risked the health of other -- and it MUST STOP. I personally believe criminal charges are in orders.

And thank you Nicoticket for helping lead the way to a safer and healthier future for vaping.

 

[pwheeler]

I don't know any other vendor that basicly tells you vaping isn't "safe." Technically I can't even say it's safer than a cigarette. Despite the fact that I personally disagree, my "official position" has to be that vaping should be assumed to be as harmful as smoking.

I've never seen any vendor anywhere state that vaping isn't safe. In fact most do state that vaping is completely safe. We still don't know the ramifications of it as vaping hasn't been around and studied long enough to really know. My own belief is that it's much safer than smoking. I only know I feel much better vaping than smoking. But to have you state that vaping may be unsafe at all is remarkable. And to also state that you would rather have customers eventually get off of it completely not be a customer any more! Pretty unique, alright. But it just proves that you have some serious ethics and not just out to make a buck on the vaping craze. The only aspect of vaping that has been studied with any thoroughness is nicotine. And they know that diacetyl can be hazardous, but all the other ingredients, time will tell. But you are the most unique and honest person I know in the juice business, and for that, and the magical juice you make, I am, and will be a Nicoticket customer until the day comes when I decide I don't want to vape anymore....if it comes!

 

[zero7starz]

In further praise of NT's ethics, I greatly appreciate the complete LACK of artificial colorings in the juice. I was totally expecting my cherry juice to be red, but it was completely clear. Colorings may be a cool way to market the juice, but I always question actually vaping them.
I do remember back when Nt made the stance against them, and as I recall removing them from at least one juice (is that right?), and I just thought that was swell of them to do.

 

[MattyRetro]

Thank you Kent for flat out CARING for your customers. There are some vendors out there that won't even answer the question regarding Diacetyl. I applaud you for the transparency in your response to said questions.

 

[Kent Brooks]

In further praise of NT's ethics, I greatly appreciate the complete LACK of artificial colorings in the juice. I was totally expecting my cherry juice to be red, but it was completely clear. Colorings may be a cool way to market the juice, but I always question actually vaping them.
I do remember back when Nt made the stance against them, and as I recall removing them from at least one juice (is that right?), and I just thought that was swell of them to do.

Betelgeuse, and Gravity (from the main line). Rainier Cherry used to be red, also... Serves no useful purpose other than marketing, why not let the liquid speak for itself, ya know?

 

[Kent Brooks]

Thank you Kent for flat out CARING for your customers. There are some vendors out there that won't even answer the question regarding Diacetyl. I applaud you for the transparency in your response to said questions.

I still consider all liquids that contain *any* diketones to be elevated risk as compared to liquids that do not contain them. At this time there isn't sufficient research to support any claim that Acetoin and Acetyl Propionyl are safer than Diacetyl for purposes of vaping. It's a continuum of risk thing. Honestly, if you can "get along" without vaping liquid that contains any diketones, I would encourage you to avoid them entirely. I'm infected - sans H1N1, I'd probably start smoking again. It's a matter of personal choice - my job is to make you aware of the risk, and then let you make the decision. In any case, less risk is always better than more... I would take the least risky option available that gives you the results you want. The least risky option in every case is clean, fresh air. If that isn't an option for you, it's really a matter of how much risk you are willing to assume. As for me, I was convinced I was going to the grave with a carton of Marlboro Lights, so anything is better than that...

 

[Zanaspus]

Also, as an aside - we've added Butyric Acid as one of the areas of concern.

So it's going to take some extra time for that vomit flavor to come through the pipeline?

 

[motabrownie]

So it's going to take some extra time for that vomit flavor to come through the pipeline?

Its a possibility that theres whale vomit in certain cigs. YUMMY!

 

[KY_Rob]

Dude, you haven't vaped the paste yet, have you?