Diacetyl

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Mazinny

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Sorry if this has been asked before, this is more for @Kent Brooks but felt it might be useful if the reply were visible to all, I did go back about 15 pages and couldn't find anything. I was curious as to whether Nicoticket do their own independent testing regarding the presence of Diacetyl in their e-liquid or if they rely on information supplied by the flavor vendors?

The reason for the question stems from this podcast: https://soundcloud.com/vp-live/is-suicide-bunny-chock-full-of-diacetyl-the-vapemania-dust-up
and the fact that I almost exclusively vape Nicoticket products.

As I understand it, one of the conditions for AEMSA membership is no Diacetyl in the e-liquid, are you now or in the future looking to join AEMSA and become a certified member?

Thanks

Kudos to you for following the advice of the podcaster and raising the question to your favorite vendor. I am hoping that this will have a ripple effect and many more contact their favorite vendors and ask the same question. I too heard the podcast and was disgusted by how evasive Suicide Bunny and Space Jam reps were. Great response Kent.

Here is a sample letter you can send to other vendors you purchase from :

Here is an example on how to ask:

Hi xxx,

I have a question regarding diacetyl testing in (insert manufacturer name) e-liquid: can you provide me with a copy of a lab report that verifies that (insert name(s) of e-liquid that you buy) are diacetyl free?

What I'm looking for is something like what this company provides to customers (use Google Chrome to translate the page):

www.nobacco.gr/component/content/article?id=210

As you can see, a copy of the test results from an independent laboratory is available for every eliquid that they sell.

Can you provide me with a copy of the results of a lab test that confirms
that (insert e-liquid names) are diacetyl-free?

Thanks,

(insert your name)

I hope this is not out of place on this thread, and i apologize if it is.

Kent, feel free to delete the message if it is.
 

Kent Brooks

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Kudos to you for following the advice of the podcaster and raising the question to your favorite vendor. I am hoping that this will have a ripple effect and many more contact their favorite vendors and ask the same question. I too heard the podcast and was disgusted by how evasive Suicide Bunny and Space Jam reps were. Great response Kent.

Here is a sample letter you can send to other vendors you purchase from :

Here is an example on how to ask:

Hi xxx,

I have a question regarding diacetyl testing in (insert manufacturer name) e-liquid: can you provide me with a copy of a lab report that verifies that (insert name(s) of e-liquid that you buy) are diacetyl free?

What I'm looking for is something like what this company provides to customers (use Google Chrome to translate the page):

www.nobacco.gr/component/content/article?id=210

As you can see, a copy of the test results from an independent laboratory is available for every eliquid that they sell.

Can you provide me with a copy of the results of a lab test that confirms
that (insert e-liquid names) are diacetyl-free?

Thanks,

(insert your name)

I hope this is not out of place on this thread, and i apologize if it is.

Kent, feel free to delete the message if it is.

It's all good! No need to delete this - we just take a different route and tell people straight up... there's reason for pause. I would actually amend that letter to include "Diketones" - not just Diacetyl. Diacetyl is the buzzword, but they are all *potentially* unsafe. How safe, or unsafe, we just don't know. I am sure there are some people who would prefer to avoid them entirely, so it seems like the prudent thing to do to basicly "shoot-straight" - no less than I would expect if the roles were reversed. I can sleep at night - and that's the important part. I give people the best information I have and let them make the choice - there's LOTS of great liquid on my line-up that doesn't contain diketones. That said, I am puffing on Frenilla right now... so you know how I feel about it. I was convinced I was going to the grave with a carton of Marlboro Lights at my side. Truth be told, I would like to reduce or eliminate all diketones... problem is, it tastes like bleh.
 
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Mazinny

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It's all good! No need to delete this - we just take a different route and tell people straight up... there's reason for pause. I would actually amend that letter to include "Diketones" - not just Diacetyl. Diacetyl is the buzzword, but they are are *potentially* unsafe. How safe, or unsafe, we just don't know. I am sure there are some people who would prefer to avoid them entirely, so it seems like the prudent thing to do to basicly "shoot-straight" - no less than I would expect if the roles were reversed. I can sleep at night - and that's the important part. I give people the best information I have and let them make the choice - there's LOTS of great liquid on my line-up that doesn't contain diketones. That said, I am puffing on Frenilla right now... so you know how I feel about it. I was convinced I was going to the grave with a carton of Marlboro Lights at my side. Truth be told, I would like to reduce or eliminate all diketones... problem is, it tastes like bleh.


I agree Kent, and i am not personally over-concerned. This is what i wrote in response to a poster on a different thread asking to provide a study showing " clear and present danger" :

"The real question is not if the danger is over-blown or exaggerated, or if it's scare-mongering. The real issue is how do news-reports like these effect our vaping rights. How will they be portrayed in the media. Why do vendors state that there is no diacetyl in our product, when there is. Why can't they say that yes there is diacetyl in our products, but there is no "clear and present danger ". I will make my own decision as a consumer.

kudos to the person who posed the question to their favorite vendor on their own thread, for everyone to see, and kudos to Kent for such an honest and detailed response. "
 

Kent Brooks

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I agree Kent, and i am not personally over-concerned. This is what i wrote in response to a poster on a different thread asking to provide a study showing " clear and present danger" :

"The real question is not if the danger is over-blown or exaggerated, or if it's scare-mongering. The real issue is how do news-reports like these effect our vaping rights. How will they be portrayed in the media. Why do vendors state that there is no diacetyl in our product, when there is. Why can't they say that yes there is diacetyl in our products, but there is no "clear and present danger ". I will make my own decision as a consumer.

kudos to the person who posed the question to their favorite vendor on their own thread, for everyone to see, and kudos to Kent for such an honest and detailed response. "

Keep spreading the love brother Mazinny. Great work! Integrity matters.
 

WharfRat1976

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If the ingredients contain any other diketones (like acetyl propionyl and/or acetoin), we have declared it on the website in a neutral manner so as to make the consumer aware of the potential for elevated risk (despite no longitudinal research having been done on the effects of vaping any diketones, including diacetyl).
So Kent, does this mean that at present, you have no clue whether your juice contains diketones but there is a "elevated risk" that it does?
 
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motabrownie

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Theres a popular joose vendor thats currently getting crucified for alleged high diacetyl content. I personally dont have a problem vaping any alleged bad stuff as I agree its safer than smoking.

Maybe it would be a good time to make a list of all NT juices that contain any diketones. I know its listed on the site but a nice concise list would be nice for all the recurring questions.
 

Kent Brooks

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As I understand it Diacetyl and Acetyl Propionyl are pretty much the same thing, just a few molecules moved around, and should be regarded with the same degree of caution, popcorn lung etc. At least that's what Dr F said in a recent podcast.

We lump them all together - diketones are diketones. To us, they all carry an elevated risk profile. Matter of fact, we take it one step further...

1) there is no such thing as safe vaping
2) there is no substitute for clean fresh air
3) for purposes of liability, consider all vaping to be as harmful as smoking cigarettes - flavored or unflavored, doesn't matter

We don't make statements like...

"Vaping is safer than cigarettes"
"This flavor is safer than that one"
"Vaping is in any way safe."

Matter of fact, I am telling you - I hope you stop vaping because NOT VAPING is definitely healthier than VAPING.
 

Megan Kogijiki Ratchford

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This is why we love Clark above and beyond the juice and zotz and CS and family. He takes his role in our heath EXTREMELY SERIOUSLY and I remember one time he said "One day I hope to see you all move on from vaping even if it means I don't see you anymore. I just want you off smoking and eventually off vaping because your long term health is important to me. I'd rather have to close my business because there are no more smokers OR vapers than hook all of you for life." (Not a direct quote but that was the gist...)
 

Kent Brooks

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Theres a popular joose vendor thats currently getting crucified for alleged high diacetyl content. I personally dont have a problem vaping any alleged bad stuff as I agree its safer than smoking.

Maybe it would be a good time to make a list of all NT juices that contain any diketones. I know its listed on the site but a nice concise list would be nice for all the recurring questions.

I'm aware of the crucifixion... the issue isn't with the contents, it's with the disclosure (or non-disclosure) of said contents. We've taken a different path - we're telling you straight up, vaping isn't safe - don't do it. Flavored or unflavored, this flavor or that flavor, all of it - no safer than a cigarette.
 

Sloth Tonight

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Matter of fact, I am telling you - I hope you stop vaping because NOT VAPING is definitely healthier than VAPING.

Not happening brother :) i sincerely appreciate your stance here and encouraging/hoping your customers eventually stop vaping. not me buddy - will go to the grave holdin my REO, loaded with NT, probably containing diketones

I always loved smoking, but hated it. I loved smoking for that companion that's always with me, for taking a break to step outside and let everything else rest for a moment, for the physical act and sensation of smoking, for "resetting" or "preparing" for the next step in my day. Or for "enjoying" a relaxing moment more. I love vaping - and don't hate it. The things I hated are not present, at all - except for maybe the diketones being potentially harmful. but, to the grave i go with it - that in and of itself isn't a big enough deal to me to ever quit vaping. I do hope, along with you, that not everybody feels the same i do about it. but i can't describe what vaping is any better than perhaps to say, it is my companion, my friend. the physical act alone - then, yes, i love nicotine - and yes, i cannot imagine life without Wakonda, Got Cookie, Virus, Frenilla, and CLS.

sincerely Clark thank you for the advice you give, the transparency your company has, and the hope that we will one day stop being customers. I think that is awesome and partly why I love NT so much. i will single handedly try to keep you in business forever---LMAO
 
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