Diketones will destroy vaping before they destroys your lungs

[Bitter Jeweler]

So, any studies that show how much vapor actually stays in the lungs?
How many of those ppm are you actually keeping?

That matters more than how much is in the juice.
Have any vapors been diagnosed with BO yet? D/AP has been in juice for a number of years now, hasn't it?

Didn't 6 workers handling diacetyl in a factory show symptoms within 12 months?
Or was it three? Aren't we supposedly exposed to more than what was in the factory?

Transparency, I agree with.
Angry fearmongering, notsomuch.

 

[roxynoodle]

The 10% off sale is a moving sale. Selling some 5Pawns flavors for $16.50 is liquidation...

What does it normally cost? Are they saying they will no longer carry it?

 

[stevegmu]

What does it normally cost? Are they saying they will no longer carry it?

It is usually twice that price. No idea. They still have some flavors at regular price, just a selection of them reduced 50%. Maybe they were the worst as far as the test results?

 

[roxynoodle]

It is usually twice that price. No idea. They still have some flavors at regular price, just a selection of them reduced 50%. Maybe they were the worst as far as the test results?

Possibly. Maybe they just weren't selling well. They carry my favorite vendor's juice and it has at least as many diketones.

 

[stevegmu]

So, any studies that show how much vapor actually stays in the lungs?
How many of those ppm are you actually keeping?

That matters more than how much is in the juice.
Have any vapors been diagnosed with BO yet? D/AP has been in juice for a number of years now, hasn't it?

Didn't 6 workers handling diacetyl in a factory show symptoms within 12 months?
Or was it three? Aren't we supposedly exposed to more than what was in the factory?

Transparency, I agree with.
Angry fearmongering, notsomuch.

One of the lead researchers in vaping and safety said diacetyl should not be used and should be avoided. Is Dr. F a fear mongerer?

 

[stevegmu]

Possibly. Maybe they just weren't selling well. They carry my favorite vendor's juice and it has at least as many diketones.

I have never seen 5Pawns so heavily discounted and has usually been exempt from sales...

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

One of the lead researchers in vaping and safety said diacetyl should not be used and should be avoided. Is Dr. F a fear mongerer?

Hi Steve. I read enough here to know your game.
Now, care to answer my other questions?

 

[roxynoodle]

I have never seen 5Pawns so heavily discounted and has usually been exempt from sales...

Considering the sheer amount of stock they're carrying though, I can certainly see eliminating any products that aren't moving quickly. Its just good business. I would do the same if I were the owner. Of course I'm speculating on the cause, but its odd they are only trying to liquidate some flavors rather than the entire line.

Of course the diketones could be the reason those flavors aren't selling as much. Or it could just be they don't appeal to as wide a customer base.

I'm sure every vendor has flavors that sell more than others. Nicoticket has 40% off sales when they want to clear out less popular flavors.

 

[stevegmu]

Hi Steve. I read enough here to know your game.
Now, care to answer my other questions?

Vaping the amount, concentrations and flavors hasn't been around very long. The first 4 years of vaping saw cigalikes and low powered vaping and a handful of flavors. The past 18 months saw the rise of sub ohm vaping and vapers ingesting 5ml or more of just flavoring a day...

There have been more cases than in the popcorn factory, and by never smokers. I won't bother posting everything about it for someone who doesn't care, but here's one link-

Food flavouring wrecked my lungs - Hazards 101 - January-March 2008

 

[stevegmu]

Considering the sheer amount of stock they're carrying though, I can certainly see eliminating any products that aren't moving quickly. Its just good business. I would do the same if I were the owner. Of course I'm speculating on the cause, but its odd they are only trying to liquidate some flavors rather than the entire line.

Of course the diketones could be the reason those flavors aren't selling as much. Or it could just be they don't appeal to as wide a customer base.

I'm sure every vendor has flavors that sell more than others. Nicoticket has 40% off sales when they want to clear out less popular flavors.

From what I hear many other vendors have been selling 5Pawns at a loss and not restocking, either. There have been numerous posts about this throughout the forum...

 

[roxynoodle]

From what I hear many other vendors have been selling 5Pawns at a loss and not restocking, either. There have been numerous posts about this throughout the forum...

Yes, but we were discussing this particular vendor, not all vendors.

 

[stevegmu]

Yes, but we were discussing this particular vendor, not all vendors.

Seems more of a trend if multiple vendors are liquidating particular e-liquids, rather than just 1 vendor getting rid of slow moving stock...

 

[roxynoodle]

Seems more of a trend if multiple vendors are liquidating particular e-liquids, rather than just 1 vendor getting rid of slow moving stock...

Well, unless they begin eliminating the entire line or post a statement I don't see how that can be assumed about Giant Vapes.

 

[stevegmu]

Well, unless they begin eliminating the entire line or post a statement I don't see how that can be assumed about Giant Vapes.

There's also this, but that's for Canadian vendors-

(ECTA) has notified 50 vendors from the association to withdraw and cease sales of Five Pawns e-liquids.

ECTA Notifies 50 Vendors To Cease Sale Of Five Pawns | The Grumpy Vaper

And Vapor Kings getting rid of the same flavors...

Five Pawns e-Liquid

And this site-

Five Pawns - Gambit - JuiceBroker.Com

I've never actually seen 5Pawns for sale 50% off anywhere before the controversy...

 

[Racehorse]

So, any studies that show how much vapor actually stays in the lungs?
How many of those ppm are you actually keeping?

That matters more than how much is in the juice.
Have any vapors been diagnosed with BO yet? D/AP has been in juice for a number of years now, hasn't it?

Didn't 6 workers handling diacetyl in a factory show symptoms within 12 months?
Or was it three? Aren't we supposedly exposed to more than what was in the factory?

Transparency, I agree with.
Angry fearmongering, notsomuch.

Many of the questions are unanswered as regards vaping, specifically.

How many professional cooks have gotten B.O.? None yet.


However, keep in mind-----the kind of lung damage caused by diacetyl is of tragic porportion, i.e. not asthma or a little coughing or even cancer (which may be curable).

No. The kind of lung damage that has been caused by diacetyl is severe and absolute. i.e., complete and utter LUNG DESTRUCTION. The only cure is a lung transplant.

Risk adversity has many shades and grades. Understandably, many people are not willing to take THIS kind of risk. I can't say I blame them, esp. since there are so many other ejuice alternatives, making it an entirely avoidable risk.

What we are talking about is akin to a kind of russian roulette.....there may be no bullets in the barrel, there may only be one, or there may be 3.

The truth is that only certain people would play russian roulette to begin with.

People who want to play can play. I still can't watch Deer Hunter.

 

[roxynoodle]

Once again, not this particular vendor What other vendors are doing is irrelevant.

 

[stevegmu]

Once again, not this particular vendor What other vendors are doing is irrelevant.

Of course. It certainly isn't a trend that vendors are selling a particular brand at significant discount after a controversy. Just mere coincidence...

 

[Moonbogg]

So, any studies that show how much vapor actually stays in the lungs?
How many of those ppm are you actually keeping?

That matters more than how much is in the juice.
Have any vapors been diagnosed with BO yet? D/AP has been in juice for a number of years now, hasn't it?

Didn't 6 workers handling diacetyl in a factory show symptoms within 12 months?
Or was it three? Aren't we supposedly exposed to more than what was in the factory?

Transparency, I agree with.
Angry fearmongering, notsomuch.

Says the guy with ECF's #1 diketone vendor's banner in his sig. And it wasn't six people. It is hundreds with lung dysfunction with some showing symptoms only after 12 months of exposure. You don't have to have full blown popcorn lung to be injured. More than $100 million has been awarded in jury verdicts for workers and consumers "unknowingly exposed to diacetyl" with resultant injuries. The replacement chemicals are just as dangerous. Millions of vapers today are "unknowingly exposed to diacetyl" or AP. Look up diacetyl lawsuits for a fun read.
I can see things getting very ugly in the near future for thousands of vapers and thousands of businesses. Lawsuits will fly like crazy, and rightfully so. Injured vapers will win cases and the vaping industry will be destroyed. The public won't let another wave of mass casualties be inflicted upon people in search of a nicotine fix without industry killing consequences.
I will not be one of those injured people, because I am lucky enough to finally be aware of the dangers and I am not stupid enough to consume 15mils of liquid per day.

I will add, never before in the history of these chemicals has anyone been exposed other than factory workers and the rare consumer. Among them hundreds have been injured, some died, and others permanently disabled severely. With millions and millions of vapers across the globe consuming these chemicals, what the hell do you expect to happen? We claim to be all for harm reduction but this is a risk we are willing to take? A risk of this size and scope? Seriously?

 

[stevegmu]

I really don't care what people vape or what's in it. I just want to know if a vendor is using substances which should not be used in e-liquid. If they don't test and don't know, fine; it is my choice to buy or not. It is the deceit which is the problem...

 

[Moonbogg]

I really don't care what people vape or what's in it. I just want to know if a vendor is using substances which should not be used in e-liquid. If they don't test and don't know, fine; it is my choice to buy or not. It is the deceit which is the problem...

Sorry, even though I agree that choice is fine, I still can't see how the risk shouldn't be avoided by vendors. There should really be no excuse to put so many people at risk and then be prepared to blame them for the destruction to their body that you KNEW might come to them. This is not about blame and pointing fingers. This is about refusing to except known dangerous chemicals in e-liquid, period. No one will care who's fault it is or who had the choice to do this or do that. If some poor person's lungs stop working right and they learn that they will never function properly again, that person won't give a damn about who's fault it is. They just want their lungs back and no one can give that to them.