Diketones will destroy vaping before they destroys your lungs

[sparkky1]

Yes.

That is why I quit cigarettes.

I feel that I dodged a bullet by putting down the cigarettes.

You are basically asking me WHY I don't take up that bullet again and put it into the barrel and then spin it and take my chances?

As Dr. F. pointed out, it is possible that damage from DAP is in form of COPD and other lung disease. I started vaping in order to embrace the concept of "harm reduction". Therefore, vaping instead of smoking is harm reduction, and then, I choose to increase the harm reduction aspect by NOT vaping DAP-laden eliquids.

Makes total sense to me, i.e. "vape as safely AS POSSIBLE. No downsides to that idea for ME.

Its not about B.O. or anything else, really. It's about me wanting to ELIMINATE as many perceived risks as possible, otherwise, I would just start smoking again.

Vaping gave me an opportunity to CONTROL what I vape. Both in substance as well as nicotine level. I did not have that choice when I bought a pack of cigs.

I have that opportunity now, and I'm going to fully exercise it.

But how can you verify your DAP-laden free eliquids wont produce the same results ?

 

[Pinggolfer]

I think something that should be Mentioned, and something that gets Lost in all this, is that Most Flavored e-Liquids do Not Contain Diacetyl and or Acetyl Propionyl due to the nature of their Flavor.

So if a person is not vaping a Buttery, Creamy, or Custard-like Flavor, chances are they are not inhaling any Diacetyl and or Acetyl Propionyl in the First Place.

Most? I'm not sure. What I do know is I don't need the vape police telling me what to vape. The last time I looked I still reside in the USA and I can decide what I can vape. I'll try and help people get off cigarettes by vaping, but I'm not going to tell them what to vape. No matter what they vape it sure beats smoking cigarettes.

 

[zoiDman]

How do you think they make any artificial flavoring that are not the above mentioned ? So what your saying is you don't have to worry about your fruit flavor when catalyzed ?

No. What is am Saying is if you use a Fruit Flavor, that there is Most Likely No Diacetyl and or Acetyl Propionyl in the Flavoring.

I have said for a long time that when the Long Term Studies are done, that the Chemical Compounds that are Responsible for the Greatest Risk will, IMO, be the Flavorings/Colorants/Artificial Sweeteners not the Nicotine, PG or VG.

What we use to Flavor e-Liquids was Never Designed or Studied for Long Term Habitual Use in the Dosages that the Average Vaper uses.

And something that is considered GRAS to Eat Doesn't mean it is GRAS to Inhale.

If Health is a Persons Primary concern when using an e-Cigarette After they have Quit Smoking, I believe they should consider using Unflavored. Or perhaps, Hint of Flavor (HOF).

 

[zoiDman]

Most? I'm not sure. What I do know is I don't need the vape police telling me what to vape. The last time I looked I still reside in the USA and I can decide what I can vape. I'll try and help people get off cigarettes by vaping, but I'm not going to tell them what to vape. No matter what they vape it sure beats smoking cigarettes.

Who is Telling you What to Vape? And what does it have to do with what I Posted?

You want to vape something that has High Extremely Levels of Diacetyl and or Acetyl Propionyl, I really Don't Care.

But when I ask the Vendor that you get your High Level Diacetyl and or Acetyl Propionyl e-Liquids from if these Chemical Compounds are Present in their e-Liquids, I Expect an Honest Answer.

 

[TheRedlines]

I guess maybe I'm the only one but I sure do miss the dang good custards of yesteryear.

 

[roxynoodle]

Mountain Oak has a diketone free custard line as well. They are my favorite flavors, too.

The fruits that don't also have cream/custard seem to be diketone free.

Charlie Noble's Raspberry Ripple is quite tasty and has very minimal diketones. Well below "safe" levels.

 

[Moonbogg]

Most? I'm not sure. What I do know is I don't need the vape police telling me what to vape. The last time I looked I still reside in the USA and I can decide what I can vape. I'll try and help people get off cigarettes by vaping, but I'm not going to tell them what to vape. No matter what they vape it sure beats smoking cigarettes.

No one has the power to tell you what to vape. Instead, what I am telling you is that if we don't take health risks very seriously and act on them collectively, then you won't be vaping anything legally.
I also find it odd how people used to praise Dr. F as being our only high caliber friend in the world. But once he spoke the truth about diketones, suddenly he is unqualified to comment. Suddenly he is over reacting. Yeah, OK. I think people are just selfish by nature and don't want their sweet diketones taken away, so that makes Dr. F a kind of half enemy, but really he is the best guide we have in keeping vaping alive by suggesting we ditch the damn diketones.

 

[Pinggolfer]

But when I ask the Vendor that you get your High Level Diacetyl and or Acetyl Propionyl e-Liquids from if these Chemical Compounds are Present in their e-Liquids, I Expect an Honest Answer.

That thread is closed move on. Plus you have no idea as to what I vape.

No clue as to what you're talking about when it comes to Dr F.

If you don't care what I vape then let it be. You are not going to change my mind as you only have facts which have nothing to do about vaping. Voodoo medicine at best.

 

[Racehorse]

But how can you verify your DAP-laden free eliquids wont produce the same results ?

I can't.

Just like I can't know, when I place an wager on a horse (after STUDYING ALL THE DATA which gives me the ABILITY to make an educated selection) that it will win. Just like I can't know when I choose to buy house insurance against certain defects or events that may or may not happen.

Will a large tree fall on my house during the straight winds and tornadic events we have here? That all depends on how close it is to my house, what the health of the tree is, and what direction is it already leaning. That is why I call in somebody with "tree knowledge and training" to evaluate the tree for me.

I listen to what they have to say, and study the data, then decide what risk I am willing to assume.

This is the whole thing about risk assessment. You look at information you have available from sources you trust, and then you make a decision.

This is true of ALL risk assessment / decisions.

I am making a decision not to vape DAP-laden eliquids based on the opinion of people like Dr. F, Kurt, and other people with the medical training that I feel gives them the ability to comment on subject matter on which I am not formally trained to assess, as well as the research already standing regarding DAP inhalation in other formats that are not ecigs.

As with the tree scenario, I guess I could just say "oh well, I gotta die anyway, there's probably little chance of me dying from a tree falling on me and if it happens, so be it."

While I realize I can't CONTROL every aspect of life, I prefer to practice safety and risk management to an extent, and that includes making decisions about things I do have control over. Like the tree that is too close to my house. Like the DAP in eliquids. Like the horse who has been out on layoff for 180 days but won every race he's ever been in.

I hope I understand your post to me.....you ARE asking ME for my opinion. I can't speak for you, or anyone else, however. I am giving you MY OWN reasoning for not vaping DAP. I do not require that you, or anyone else, abide by it, or even find it useful.

Risk assessment is not an exact science.

 

[Racehorse]

when I ask the Vendor that you get your High Level Diacetyl and or Acetyl Propionyl e-Liquids from if these Chemical Compounds are Present in their e-Liquids, I Expect an Honest Answer.

And you deserve honesty when you pay someone for a product that is supposed to be DAP free.

If they send you something with DAP, then it is consumer fraud.

I have no idea why this concept appears to be so hard to grasp for some people.

It's not about regulating or definite danger.... It's about personal choice to use or not use certain substances. In order to make those choices we need to be informed. Certainly, asking the person who actually mixes and sells the product would seem like a logical person to ask that question of? If they lie to you, then it's actionable fraud.

 

[zoiDman]

That thread is closed move on. Plus you have no idea as to what I vape.

No clue as to what you're talking about when it comes to Dr F.

If you don't care what I vape then let it be. You are not going to change my mind as you only have facts which have nothing to do about vaping. Voodoo medicine at best.

I have No Clue what you are Talking about Ping?

Seeing that I haven't Referenced Dr. F. And I have No Desire, as I Already Stated, to change your Mind about Anything.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

This is the whole thing about risk assessment. You look at information you have available from sources you trust, and then you make a decision.

This is true of ALL risk assessment / decisions.

But most of the people fear mongering over diketones should be vaping unflavored, exclusively. But there not. They are willing to take there chances.

Where are the studies for effects of inhaling artificial strawberry flavorings, cinnamon, citrus, banana, sucralose, etc?
There are none, are there? Does this mean there is zero risk?

 

[zoiDman]

And you deserve honesty when you pay someone for a product that is supposed to be DAP free.

If they send you something with DAP, then it is consumer fraud.

I have no idea why this concept appears to be so hard to grasp for some people.

It's not about regulating or definite danger.... It's about personal choice to use or not use certain substances. In order to make those choices we need to be informed. Certainly, asking the person who actually mixes and sells the product would seem like a logical person to ask that question of? If they lie to you, then it's actionable fraud.

You would Kinda Think so. Wouldn't You?

And it Removes a Users ability to make an "Informed Choice" if a Vendors/OEM is Deceiving Customers as to the presence of a Chemical Compound(s) in an e-Liquid.

 

[Racehorse]

Where are the studies for effects of inhaling artificial strawberry flavorings, cinnamon, citrus, banana, sucralose, etc?
There are none, are there? Does this mean there is zero risk?

Do you not understand, at all, the entire theory of risk ,management / assessment?

Because it really SOUNDS like you do not.

But most of the people fear mongering over diketones should be vaping unflavored, exclusively. But there not.

And you know this.....how?

You do realize that cuttiing the amount of flavoring one vapes is also a form of risk management? (something I do.) I vape about 1% flavoring when I do use it. If I buy vendor juice, I have always diluted it by at least 1/2 with plain pg/vg.

There are all sorts of risk management behaviors people practice.

Then, there are those that live in the other universe. BP Deepwater Horizon etc.

 

[roxynoodle]

Certainly I'm never going to endorse fraud. A vendor proven to have lied is not going to earn my business.

That being said, I still want to understand why different labs can find vastly different results. How do we even know which lab results to trust? That's very disturbing to me.

 

[sparkky1]

But most of the people fear mongering over diketones should be vaping unflavored, exclusively. But there not. They are willing to take there chances.

Where are the studies for effects of inhaling artificial strawberry flavorings, cinnamon, citrus, banana, sucralose, etc?
There are none, are there? Does this mean there is zero risk?

That's what I'm screamin, I get it so if you take out the alpha, beta-unsaturated aldehydes and ketones, aliphatic aldehydes, aliphatic carboxylic acids, aliphatic amines, and aliphatic aromatic thiols and sulfides, what is left ? and were are the awesome scientific study's like "they've" done for diketones to test the new diketone free recipe's ?
I guess you just gotta have "faith", it has to be better for you ?

 

[stevegmu]

Do you not understand, at all, the entire theory of risk assessment?

Because it really SOUNDS like you do not.

I think some simply don't care about their health...

 

[zoiDman]

Certainly I'm never going to endorse fraud. A vendor proven to have lied is not going to earn my business.

That being said, I still want to understand why different labs can find vastly different results. How do we even know which lab results to trust? That's very disturbing to me.

Then you can Understand why I Repeatedly posted this Question in the now Closed Five Pawns thread. And when I received No Answer to it, I posted it in the New Five Pawns thread.

Does Five Pawns have any plans to Publishing the Testing Protocols so that Others may see what Five Pawns considers to be the "Most Accurate" Testing Method for detection of Diacetyl and Acetyl Propionyl in e-Liquids?

 

[Pinggolfer]

Since they make diketone free custards. Can someone explain what chemicals are now used for flavoring?

 

[sparkky1]

I think some simply don't care about their health...

Ya steve, once again amazing us all with your worldly wisdom..........