Discouraging Nonsmokers from Vaping

[MrKai]

This discussion would be much more productive if we stuck to reality as opposed to idealism.

There is a phrase in French that translates to "It doesn't matter if you like it or not"...that I find wholly applicable here.

Asking questions like 'why should e-Cigs be singled out' is a wrong question, simply because e-Cigs are perceptually at this time close enough to tobacco ones that they are a "problem" in a general societal view.

Trying to deal with this perception requires an *initial capitulation* to this social construct. It just does.

It doesn't matter if the facts or figures say this or that *at this time*...there is such a thing as winning the battle and losing the war...as well as spreading your forces too thin to even fight the battle.

What is the core goal we are after here? We want to be able to use our devices, to buy them and sell them freely.

This will not happen with a massive assault against *every established institution and social belief*...history proves this to us time and time again.

You can not depose a system with a small force; you can corrupt it and grow your forces. To survive you must *acknowledge* the, for want of a better word, status quo and your place in it or you will be squashed into oblivion.

Attacking non-smokers, smokers, ASH, the FDA, BT, BP, Fascists, the MSM and everyone else at the same time leaves us with no allies whatsoever.

You want to get more allies? Don't try to tear down all of their institutions...they are protected and they WILL protect them.

The doorway is education and the key to that lock is acknowledging the fact that the lock is there and the perceived legitimacy thereof and *its* right to exist.

In other words...use simple tools of flattery and psychology. Make them fight for you, not against you.

Trying to get "innocent people" "hooked" on e-Cigs is a sure as hell way to bring down the proverbial ban hammer from every direction.

Can we please, please just walk away from this and let reason and current reality be our compass here?

-K

 

[hifistud]

When did this whole thing morph from giving sage advice to non-smoker putative vapers into "Trying to get "innocent people" "hooked" on e-Cigs"?

If ever there was a piece of rhetoric that you would attribute to one of the more fanatical anti-smoking groups, that would be it.

No matter what else our "stand" should be, above all, it should be honest. If we, as users, are in possession of information, and know it to be correct, and knowingly withhold it from enquirers (whether they be genuine or trolls), then we're not being honest. For the genuine enquirer, that is a dis-service. For the troll, it is yet more fuel to add to the flames.

There is, in my view, no need to act as though we are involved in something disreputable or scurrilous. To the best of everyone's knowledge, non-nic e-juice is safe, unless you have PG sensitivity. To the best of everyone's knowledge, nic-bearing e-juice is multiple orders of magnitude safer than the analogue equivalent - good ol' cigarettes. If marketed only as an alternative method of "smoking", the UK government has nothing much to say against them - nothing, certainly, that would cause a ban to descend.

That a US government agency has taken an anti-stance is, in the rest of the world's eyes, somewhat startling, contrary, and borderline ridiculous. Medics and eminent experts in the field of tobacco-related illness have concertedly fallen behind the e-cig as being - here it is again - orders of magnitude safer than the tobacco cigarette. The weight of scientific evidence thus far available is fairly and squarely behind the e-cig and its juices. I have no reason to suspect that will change.

If the question is asked: "which shall I choose - cigarettes or e-cig?" whether it be from a smoker, ex-smoker or never-smoker, what is the best advice? The answer is obvious. And please note that the abstinence option is absent from the question - we are not advising people who have given it no consideration to take up vaping - we are not evangelising e-cigs as something everyone of the age of majority should take up.

The question as it has been put is plain - "I am considering using either one or the other, and I intend to use one or the other, so which shall it be?" The answer should be equally plain, and to deliver a less than honest one does no-one any good.

 

[USinchains]

Nicotine can have a very positive effect for many people.

There is a reason that over 80% of people with mental illness smoke. They're getting something out of it. It also has a very positive effect on ADD and it seems most of the other problems that deal with cognitive issues.

It's very politically incorrect to say it, but some people should be using nicotine. It just a matter of reducing the harm associated with it.

Interesting. Since starting 3 days ago, I've noticed that I don't bite my nails as much as I usually do. I am not ...... off all day at work as usual, and I'm not depressing myself by worrying about the future. I've actually had a smile all day. I've also lost interest in my other "recreational" vice, which turns out doesn't relax me as much as it aggravates my sense of nervousness. There's no doubt I am receiving more nic than my 1.5pk/d Marb Lights were offering. If I'da known 15 years ago that nicotine could improve my quality of life this much, I would've gotten hooked on filterless Camels instead, or chewing tobacco.

 

[alsmom]

Interesting. Since starting 3 days ago, I've noticed that I don't bite my nails as much as I usually do. I am not ...... off all day at work as usual, and I'm not depressing myself by worrying about the future. I've actually had a smile all day. I've also lost interest in my other "recreational" vice, which turns out doesn't relax me as much as it aggravates my sense of nervousness. There's no doubt I am receiving more nic than my 1.5pk/d Marb Lights were offering. If I'da known 15 years ago that nicotine could improve my quality of life this much, I would've gotten hooked on filterless Camels instead, or chewing tobacco.

Ya, I don't wake up at night worrying about tomorrow!!