Do you believe as many teens vape as the news makes it out to be?
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"For the Children" is the mantra these days. Truth is, if they aren't 18 they aren't old enough to purchase smokes or vapes. If kids are vaping, they either have a friend in a store or someone who sells vaping products to them. It's a regulation and control issue, not a problem with vaping. Vaping is a great way to transition off the smokes, but it's an adult activity and should be controlled by stores and mail order vendors just as alcohol is controlled.
I've seen very few people vaping that looked to be underage. Maybe I don't get out enough, but the mall is one place where you'd expect to see that. Haven't seen it there or anywhere else.
I've seen very few people vaping that looked to be underage. Maybe I don't get out enough, but the mall is one place where you'd expect to see that. Haven't seen it there or anywhere else.
Teenagers engaging in the verboten?
Say it aint sooooo.
When I was in high schrool you could acquire a smoking permit if you were 16+. Me being a tin hat wearer at an early age there was no way I was going to have a written document stating I was a smoker. By then the warnings were on cigarette packs and cigarette companies were not allowed to advertize on tv (but beer makers could). Back then you could trade a carton of cigarettes to a hippy for a bottle of boons farm wine. And we did. Often.
One year they passed out a questionaire about drug use in home room. Again there was no way my carcass was going to put it in writing I used illegal drugs. Nor did any of the vast number of users in my school. So while the approx 75% of the students stood outside every day before school in a circle passing a hand rolled cigarette shaped number the faculty were certain that only about 10% of the youth in that school were zooming during class based on that survey.
Then that fateful day when a councilmans kid got caught with a pipe it turns out was from a cache of police impound items did my local community begin to see the truth. Dirty cops, dirty officials, dirty lawyers and prominent business types got caught up in a snare that led to a wake up call to the local community. Yet most of the kids I partook with hated cigarettes. Drug use was way more pronounced than cigarettes.
I say all of this to point out that there are still to this day a lot more important issues than little Johnny or Jane puffing on a Juul. Much of it involves legal prescriptions as more and more psychotropic drugs are used to keep little Joey of June in a zombie state while teachers are forced to dumb down the curriculum so that no kid fails the mandatory indoctrinational test that ensures adequate funding pays the air conditioning bill(s).
It's a sad comentary that the US government seems fixated on a symptom of a disease while seemingly ignoring the fact that teenagers are going to do things they aren't supposed to.
Say it aint sooooo.
When I was in high schrool you could acquire a smoking permit if you were 16+. Me being a tin hat wearer at an early age there was no way I was going to have a written document stating I was a smoker. By then the warnings were on cigarette packs and cigarette companies were not allowed to advertize on tv (but beer makers could). Back then you could trade a carton of cigarettes to a hippy for a bottle of boons farm wine. And we did. Often.
One year they passed out a questionaire about drug use in home room. Again there was no way my carcass was going to put it in writing I used illegal drugs. Nor did any of the vast number of users in my school. So while the approx 75% of the students stood outside every day before school in a circle passing a hand rolled cigarette shaped number the faculty were certain that only about 10% of the youth in that school were zooming during class based on that survey.
Then that fateful day when a councilmans kid got caught with a pipe it turns out was from a cache of police impound items did my local community begin to see the truth. Dirty cops, dirty officials, dirty lawyers and prominent business types got caught up in a snare that led to a wake up call to the local community. Yet most of the kids I partook with hated cigarettes. Drug use was way more pronounced than cigarettes.
I say all of this to point out that there are still to this day a lot more important issues than little Johnny or Jane puffing on a Juul. Much of it involves legal prescriptions as more and more psychotropic drugs are used to keep little Joey of June in a zombie state while teachers are forced to dumb down the curriculum so that no kid fails the mandatory indoctrinational test that ensures adequate funding pays the air conditioning bill(s).
It's a sad comentary that the US government seems fixated on a symptom of a disease while seemingly ignoring the fact that teenagers are going to do things they aren't supposed to.
I don't really think so. I really highly doubt it. Any study that calculates from puff one is going to exaggerate.
Also, I'm thinking a "self-report" study on teens is pretty silly. I could see a lot of teens answering kind of at random.
I like teenagers. Yea, they may smell funny and etc. But well, I go to my local high schools and if what the FDA had to say about vaping was true, the schools would smell a whole ton BETTER etc.
Sigh, it really is unfortunate, but that's not going to stop politicians.
BTW I always "did my part" for society with those surveys. I was the cleanest living, most substance free teen of them all, and (despite having sex with my English teacher in HS, long story) I was also the most virginal.
My attitude was, "Government, it is NONE of your business what I do in my spare time." LOL I guess I have felt that way for a LONG time.
Anna
I am still totally clueless about the studies, and I also always kind of figured that the teachers gathered up the studies and threw them in the shredder and the politicians made stuff up although I guess given the nature of the questions, the only reason to be "concerned" at all about them is the waste of paper and waste of statistical massaging. Etc.
Also, I'm thinking a "self-report" study on teens is pretty silly. I could see a lot of teens answering kind of at random.
I like teenagers. Yea, they may smell funny and etc. But well, I go to my local high schools and if what the FDA had to say about vaping was true, the schools would smell a whole ton BETTER etc.
Sigh, it really is unfortunate, but that's not going to stop politicians.
BTW I always "did my part" for society with those surveys. I was the cleanest living, most substance free teen of them all, and (despite having sex with my English teacher in HS, long story) I was also the most virginal.
My attitude was, "Government, it is NONE of your business what I do in my spare time." LOL I guess I have felt that way for a LONG time.
Anna
I am still totally clueless about the studies, and I also always kind of figured that the teachers gathered up the studies and threw them in the shredder and the politicians made stuff up although I guess given the nature of the questions, the only reason to be "concerned" at all about them is the waste of paper and waste of statistical massaging. Etc.
Teens exaggerate (say it isn't so, lol). So if you ask them if they have ever vaped, many will say yes even if they haven't. If you ask how much, they will says zillions of times even if it was 2 times. That is just how it is. I worked with high risk adolescents for many years and was an addiction specialist so I know how they beef it up to feel more adult or to look cool when they tell their friends.
I guess I was a very sensible, future oriented teen then.
But yeah, I could see a lot of friendless, uncool teens "self reporting" a lot of stuff.
I also did a bit of digging on self-report surveys, and it pretty much said that it's fairly accurate for pro-social, pro-normative behaviors, but steadily decreases as the questions get personal.
There is also this study, which was aimed particularly at teens/young adults: The Validity of Teens' and Young Adults' Self-reported Condom Use
Kind of interesting and YOU KNOW the government has to know this, it is totally intuitive.
Also why the Census, despite the myriad of well, monies poured into it, is only so valid. Really. Because if you are here without permission, well....
Anna
But yeah, I could see a lot of friendless, uncool teens "self reporting" a lot of stuff.
I also did a bit of digging on self-report surveys, and it pretty much said that it's fairly accurate for pro-social, pro-normative behaviors, but steadily decreases as the questions get personal.
There is also this study, which was aimed particularly at teens/young adults: The Validity of Teens' and Young Adults' Self-reported Condom Use
Kind of interesting and YOU KNOW the government has to know this, it is totally intuitive.
Also why the Census, despite the myriad of well, monies poured into it, is only so valid. Really. Because if you are here without permission, well....
Anna
This is Pretty Much the heart of it to me.
The Naked Statistic for things like "Have you used an e-Cigarette in the Past 30 Days?" is Not that meaningful.
Because they include the Individual who Tries an e-Cigarette once, Doesn't like it, and never uses an e-Cigarette again. As well as the Individual who Tries an e-Cigarette one, Likes it, and goes on to be a Daily Vaper.
The Statistic also doesn't draw any Inference as to if the Person who Tried the e-Cigarette was Likely or Not Likely to also try a Cigarette?
The Statistic that Is Meaningful to me (and I'm sure the FDA) is the Percentage of Teens and Kids who use an e-Cigarette Daily.
Because when that Percentage Exceeds the Percentage of Daily Teen/Kid Smokers before e-Cigarettes were available, that means that the Percentage Differential is made up of Never-Smokers who would statistically Not have become Daily Smokers.
How about this one...
"If the FDA Banned e-Cigarettes from being sold in Convenience Stores and Walk in Retail Outlets, could you still get an e-Cigarette from a Friend, Older Sibling or an Adult you know?"
Or here is a Good One...
"If the FDA Banned JUUL from being Sold, would you Stop Vaping? Or just Switch to Another type of e-Cigarette?"
Or Lastly...
"If the FDA Banned all Flavors, would you Stop Vaping? Or just attempt to make your own e-Liquid with Non-Adult Regulated Flavorings?"
Short answer to the question: No.
With all polls and the statistics from those polls without seeing the internals, you will never know. Like most stuff the devil is in the detail and without the actual study in hand you will not have the detail. But who wants to dig into that messy stuff? Give me a headline and a couple of paragraphs summarizing the study or poll. Works for me, heck, I'm a believer.
With all polls and the statistics from those polls without seeing the internals, you will never know. Like most stuff the devil is in the detail and without the actual study in hand you will not have the detail. But who wants to dig into that messy stuff? Give me a headline and a couple of paragraphs summarizing the study or poll. Works for me, heck, I'm a believer.
The Media is Enemy #1. Scurrilous, scandalous, full of bovine excrement and self impotent elitist snobs.
They are walking diapers.
They are walking diapers.
I guess that I can't sign you up for trial subscription to the Jeff Bezos Blog, formerly known as the Washington Post? I am putting my self through college, you know?
Well I feel like the numbers a slightly inflated IMHO. However I would rather see them vaping vs smoking tobacco. I smoked my first cigarette at 8 years old. By 10 I was attempting to smoke but did not inhale, and really didn't commit at that time. By 12 I formally started smoking daily and would smoke about 6-7 cigarettes a day. By 14 I smoked a pack a day all the way until I was 33 years old which it was about 4 months ago when I finally stopped using vaping as a tobacco reduction method, but as a replacement method. Cigarettes had given me insanely high blood pressure and about a 2 weeks after I quite and went to vaping full time my blood pressure started to drop back to normal. After a month it was back to perfect. I lost just under 40lbs and fell a billion times better.
Interestingly when these reports of kids vaping come out I can only think to myself would you rather all these kids smoke tobacco? Being that I have 3 kids the consensus is sure I don't want them to vape, but I would much rather have them vape then head down the path I went on as a kid. I know what the big tobacco corporations would prefer, and they are the ones spending countless amounts of money to the anti vaping groups to make sure that happens. Same thing can be said for the news media. If you have enough money to spend you can buy a story to made on most major national news conglomerates.
That's why I feel the numbers are slightly inflated. Though you can never be too sure with how these things are reported since they are not trying to inform you but sell you on the matter. Just enough so you get outraged and contact you representatives to change or establish new laws against vaping. Which in turn gives big tobacco the return on investment that they put into these groups. I glad I took up vaping 6 years ago. I just wish I would have used it to quit smoking tobacco completely sooner, but I glad that I finally did since it's better later than never.
Interestingly when these reports of kids vaping come out I can only think to myself would you rather all these kids smoke tobacco? Being that I have 3 kids the consensus is sure I don't want them to vape, but I would much rather have them vape then head down the path I went on as a kid. I know what the big tobacco corporations would prefer, and they are the ones spending countless amounts of money to the anti vaping groups to make sure that happens. Same thing can be said for the news media. If you have enough money to spend you can buy a story to made on most major national news conglomerates.
That's why I feel the numbers are slightly inflated. Though you can never be too sure with how these things are reported since they are not trying to inform you but sell you on the matter. Just enough so you get outraged and contact you representatives to change or establish new laws against vaping. Which in turn gives big tobacco the return on investment that they put into these groups. I glad I took up vaping 6 years ago. I just wish I would have used it to quit smoking tobacco completely sooner, but I glad that I finally did since it's better later than never.
Do you believe Media shapes society, or reflects it?
The problem is you can't have a healthy democracy without a healthy press. (And I distinguish press from media, because media is what happened when the TV networks started treating news as entertainment rather than a societal responsibility). If you get all your news from one place, be it CNN, Fox, MSNBC, Facebook or Pravda, you're likely being controlled. Find some additional sources, and follow the money because that's often what drives any bias they have. Good options are foreign news outlets, tech news sites, and business reporting.
If you go with "everything is fake news," all you have left is faith that the person you're voting for will actually do the things you want them to do. Trusting someone's character based on their public image is great, until your daughter goes to Bill Cosby's house for "acting lessons." Take a tip from Ronald Reagan: trust, but verify!
I don’t know if I believe it. However, on Saturdays we mainly teach kids and teenagers and I remember seeing some teens hanging out outside our school vaping. It was quite shocking to me. Especially cause I know they got their vapes through their parents. These things are too expensive here, even for an adult with a good job.
I think there are a crap load of kids vaping.... Are there more vaping nowadays than who smoked back when I was a teen? Hard to say really...
Back when I was a teen lots of us smoked. I see kids vaping on Juul's all the time now but I don't know if it's more or less than back in my day...
Back when I was a teen lots of us smoked. I see kids vaping on Juul's all the time now but I don't know if it's more or less than back in my day...
I have noticed, every time I buy a new car, I see that car EVERYWHERE. It's not that there are more of them I don't think but I am paying more attention.
It's hard to fight this thing and fighting BACK is sometimes not the answer.
IMHO, it's not really relevant or pertinent to try and "figure out" how many teens are vaping.
The argument should be: the numbers are IRRELEVANT and if you want to do anything, outlaw vaping for teens (although I'm guessing it is already illegal) and then do what you do with every other substance.
Supply will remain unlimited. It really will, unless vaping becomes completely illegal, in which case prohibition rules, and the game and rules change DRASTICALLY (although teens will still vape).
The focus should not be on the substance, the seller, or the number of teens.
If you are really serious about teen vaping the focus should be on THE TEENS the law can find DOING IT.
The puff pieces should not be about "This principal is trying to GET NIC LOZENGES for this poor, Juul addicted teen" (that article really GOT to me, LOL).
It's really hard to be addicted to Juuling when you are locked up in juvenile detention and then you can go through "detox" and if needed receive "nicotine testing" from your probation officer and oh, perhaps a little judicious "nicotine addiction therapy." LIKE EVERY OTHER ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR TEENS ENGAGE IN AND GET CAUGHT DOING.
Vaping is only "speshul" because we are allowing that. For shame.
Anna
It's hard to fight this thing and fighting BACK is sometimes not the answer.
IMHO, it's not really relevant or pertinent to try and "figure out" how many teens are vaping.
The argument should be: the numbers are IRRELEVANT and if you want to do anything, outlaw vaping for teens (although I'm guessing it is already illegal) and then do what you do with every other substance.
Supply will remain unlimited. It really will, unless vaping becomes completely illegal, in which case prohibition rules, and the game and rules change DRASTICALLY (although teens will still vape).
The focus should not be on the substance, the seller, or the number of teens.
If you are really serious about teen vaping the focus should be on THE TEENS the law can find DOING IT.
The puff pieces should not be about "This principal is trying to GET NIC LOZENGES for this poor, Juul addicted teen" (that article really GOT to me, LOL).
It's really hard to be addicted to Juuling when you are locked up in juvenile detention and then you can go through "detox" and if needed receive "nicotine testing" from your probation officer and oh, perhaps a little judicious "nicotine addiction therapy." LIKE EVERY OTHER ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR TEENS ENGAGE IN AND GET CAUGHT DOING.
Vaping is only "speshul" because we are allowing that. For shame.
Anna
Your assertion of being controlled implies that no matter who it is, they all have an agenda and are manipulating what you see and read. My view of humanity is not that juandiced. I still believe there are sources who report truth cause its truth, and worthy of reporting. These sources are not "media" per say, but good old fashioned reporting of the news, with facts to back it up ect. News does happen, real news is not manufactured as the alphabet stations are known to do.
I use a multitude of sources, from Brietbart to Whatfinger, a lot of FB. But I gave up on Drudge when he started adding too much spin to it.
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