Doc says I'm "still a smoker"

[Baditude]

I'd really like to believe that too, but my experience tells me otherwise.
And that is so very unfortunate.

My father went through a long, drawn-out situation with his girlfriend in a convalescent home.
And if it wasn't for his advocacy for her, they would have screwed her up real good.


Now my father is in the same situation, and I am his advocate.
And if it wasn't for me, they would have screwed him up real good as well.

I am the one that noticed his low blood pressure.
How the hell they couldn't see it escapes me to this day.

And I am the one that figured out he needed his Zyprexa dosage lowered.
It took a bit of research on my part, which apparently his army of doctors had not done.

He has stopped fainting since we made that change.
And hopefully he is no longer in danger of breaking any more bones.

If you don't pay attention, and learn, nobody will do it for you.
And that often includes your doctors, who as a group should perhaps not be held in such high regard.

I can agree. I work in the medical field, and it pains me to say this, but you can not just assume a doctor or nurse knows what is best for you, and no questions asked. I can provide cases of misdiagnosis of my own family members and even myself, because the doctor assumed that he knew best and further investigation was not required.

My own personal experience caused me to lose a job that I had held for 25 years because of chronic sleep deprivation caused from sleep apnea. My physician at the time apparently wasn't even aware of this condition, and I wasn't either until the condition persisted on my next job and my supervisor asked if I had been tested for sleep apnea. I underwent sleep lab studies and was diagnosed, and treated with a CPAP machine.

My 84 year old mother suffered for a least two years with episodes of nausea, vomiting, and stomach pain. Because she had a history of gallstones, they said she had cholecystitis. But because of her age, they recommended not having surgery. Finally she got so bad that she went to the ER and was admitted. They did a MRI and found that she had liver cancer. She died within 2 weeks of the diagnosis. I can't help wondering if the cancer had been found sooner that she could have undergone chemotherapy to save her life. But her physician assumed that her problem was her gall bladder and neglected to investigate for other possibilities.

 

[drobbyb]

In a recent case with my daughter, she had a spot on her skin. Two different doctors looked at it and said it was a spot of eczema. We told the docs that it looked like ringworm but both denied this, and one prescribed a corticosteroid, the other said to use lotion. After applying the treatments the spot did not improve. We went to the store and bought some anti-fungal cream and applied to said spot. The spot went away in 2 days.

So much for expert diagnosis.

 

[opal]

I showed my gear to my doc and told him I quit smoking (and half of my snacking too!) in favor of vaping.
He updated the notes to reflect *not smoking* - admitted not knowing much about it so didn't want to render an opinion (gotta love that.. admits when doesn't know something) and I didn't even ask if he considers me a non smoker.. guess I really don't care .. I know I'm not smoking.

Willing to learn.. good characteristic in a PCM.

 

[UncleChuck]

Disagree .. ever took a carto apart after using it a few days .. ?? Filler can and does burn .. heating element does carmalize e-liquid .. the nature of the mixture does come into play and if you were to condense exhaled vapor there would be a change from it's original composition ..

However, if you have actual links to the science behind these statements, I'd be very interested in reading them .. that would be links to e-cig vapor condensing into liquid again .. because I can't find anything supporting that ..

BATTLE OF THE UNCLES!

Just kidding.

You are absolutely right, there have not been any studies to prove what I said.

Cartos will gunk up with crud after awhile, but filler should not be burning. I generally tear my cartos apart after replacing them, just to make just I haven't been running it too hot or anything. Never had any burnt filler, but there is that nasty black crap in there.

Obviously some sort of chemical reaction IS going on, at least a tiny bit, or else the stuff wouldn't be charred, I understand where you are coming from. Considering (in my experience, again no studies or proof or anything) that some juices are way worse at gunking up cartos than others, that would lead me to believe that gunk is unvaporized flavoring, left behind to be baked over and over again every time you fire up the carto.

I can usually make cartos last about 30mil of fluid before replacing them, as long as they were in a tank. From that 30mil of fluid that was vaporized, there's what? .1 mil of gunky juice buildup if that? If there were some serious combustion situations occurring there would be tar build up all over EVERYTHING in the carto/atty, drip tip, etc.

So I totally agree with you, that with our current technology we can't know for sure if there isn't a tiny tiny amount of chemical change that happens in the vapor.

But that's a weakness of our currently technology, not a weakness of the concept of vaping. You disagreed with me because you are knowledgeable about vaping and know the equipment and issues, so you know cartos gunk up, filler CAN burn (But shouldn't be)

But the doctor? He evidently knew absolutely nothing about vaping. He claimed the OP was still a smoker for the simple fact that he was inhaling and exhaling a nicotine laced vapor, not because he was aware that current PV tech isn't up to the job of vaporizing juice 100% cleanly.

I mistakenly mixed theoretical with real world in my last post. Theoretically boiling something to the point of turning into a vapor, like boiling water, will leave whatever is being vaporized clean and in it's original condition. Because of certain issues with our current kit (or just the use of flavorings, which perhaps we shouldn't be using at all) we know that there is a tiny bit of buildup and charring on the coil.

Continuing the boiling water analogy, if you had minerals or something solid that has been dissolved into the water, generally this won't evaporate (or at least evaporate at a much lower rate) than the water, so it will be left behind, just like the crap left behind on our coils. But just because that stuff was left behind doesn't mean the water vapor that was being released as it boiled was any different than the water was when you started (other than being less contaminated as contaminates will remain behind)

 

[zapped]

Disagree .. ever took a carto apart after using it a few days .. ?? Filler can and does burn .. heating element does carmalize e-liquid .. the nature of the mixture does come into play and if you were to condense exhaled vapor there would be a change from it's original composition ..

However, if you have actual links to the science behind these statements, I'd be very interested in reading them .. that would be links to e-cig vapor condensing into liquid again .. because I can't find anything supporting that ..

Sounds like someone needs a carto tank.Virtually eliminates the dry hits youre talking about as the filler stays saturated.

Vaping isnt smoking by the way....to say otherwise and to have viewed the evidence is delusional. If you havent already done so check out the CASAA web site.Its a great place to start.

 

[-iD]

Get a new doctor because this one is too narrow minded to learn.

That said, there are a lot of ways to look at it. Most of the harm from smoking comes from the combustion. Nicotine does not cause cancer, so vaping protects you from most of the dangers of traditional smoking. BUT there are no long term tests on the effects of inhaling atomized flavors or anything else unregulated vendors and DIY juice makers put in, so calling it safe is premature. Most likely "much safer than smoking" is a reasonable assumption.

Beyond cancer, emphysema, and lung function diseases that "smoking" causes, nicotine elevates your blood pressure, increasing your risk of heart attack, stroke, etc. If your physician's request to quit smoking is related to trying to control high blood pressure, you are still in the smokers camp. If you are having surgery, your anaesthesiologist needs to know exactly what's going on with your cardiovascular system. From that POV as well, you may be more like a smoker than not.

Most life insurance policies will require a negative result on a blood or urine test to qualify for non smoker rates.

tap'd on my Google Galaxy Nexus

 

[Uncle Willie]

Sounds like someone needs a carto tank.Virtually eliminates the dry hits youre talking about as the filler stays saturated.

Vaping isnt smoking by the way....to say otherwise and to have viewed the evidence is delusional. If you havent already done so check out the CASAA web site.Its a great place to start.

I do use a tank .. however, I have also used cartos in the past .. and taken them apart .. the filler will and does burn, producing actual smoke (which has nothing to do with your PV is not smoking statement, BTW .. ) .. the heating element does caramelize liquid .. in fact, there is a pretty lengthy thread on AVS on burning cartos and Busardo has demonstrated that in at least one video of his I've seen ..

My thinking is that the neophite PV user is the most likely to experience this .. but in our current unknown regulation / study / deeming blah blah blah scenario, it would not be difficult to use that as a negative by driving a carto dry and to the burn point .. whilst doing the test ..

 

[drobbyb]

That's true Uncle Willie, it is unlikely to be encountered during a test and likely to be encountered by an inexperienced user presenting an issue. I also experienced this but quickly learned not to let the cart get so low as to burn the filler material and produce the smoke.

So this would most likely fall into infrequent exposure, yet would warrant further study to see what chemicals are produced by the charring of said material.

I think the flavorings used is the primary issue here isn't it? We know that PG and VG have been used safely for decades. In my own personal experience some flavors from certain vendors irritate my throat and lungs after a days use. I now avoid those particular flavors for that reason.

Undoubtedly there is some sort of low level reaction going on with some combinations. Whether or not it's a harmful reaction at this point is impossible to measure without lab quality testing of each flavor/combination of filler material or wicking material.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Okay, so I met doctor candidate #4 today. Wanna hear the story?

Oh you know you do. Here goes...

The doctor walks in. Looks about my age (I am 43). 6' tall, good shape, maybe 175 pounds or so. Has a confident air. That can be good or bad. Sometimes people like that are all sizzle and no steak. They are used to their manner getting them by, so the delivery means more than what is being said. We'll see. So I say hi, he says hi, and then:

Edd: So what is your view of e-cigs?
Doctor: I hear they have some unknowns, but the juice is the main determinant of the hazards in it, most today are reasonably safe for short and medium term use. I cannot recommend them for cessation, but if you are using them, fine.

Good answer!

Edd: Impressive. You know a little something about them, eh?
Doctor: Sure, they are gaining popularity. I am not saying they are safe, but I feel they reduce the risk for you to get nicotine. You vaping while quitting or just substituting?
Edd: Not sure in the long term. Probably a substitute for a good while. I'm waiting to hear the results of some long term studies.
Doctor: Okay, let me know how your experience is, you have been vaping for? (trails off waiting for me to fill in the blank)
Edd: 8 months, doc.

Looking good. He knows his stuff. Seems to listen. Check.

Doctor: Okay (makes a note on my paperwork, then grunts). Well I see here you are taking 225 mcg of Levothyroxin. That is way too much, we are gonna knock that down to 150 to start.

And my heart sinks....

Edd: Hang on there, doc. I spent a lot of time working with my former doctor to get these levels right. I get markers of thyroid deficiency below 225.
Doctor: (no longer seeming to really paying attention) Well that level is dangerous. We need to cut that back right away.
Edd: Don't we need to do some lab work first? At least shouldn't we knock it back in small increments like 25 or so until we see markers. I know we will at 200.
Doctor: (firmly, with an air of authority) You can't possibly know that, Mr. XXXXXX, I am not asking you, I am changing the prescription and working up from 150. (makes a dismissive gesture with his hands)
Edd: I can't believe you just said that.
Doctor: What?
Edd: You are not asking me? I am not gonna do that!
Doctor: You need a refill in seven days. You might want to consider that.
Edd: Do you think that I am so simple that I don't have a stockpile of Levothyroxin for this exact type situation? I think we are done here.
Doctor: (shrugs) Suit yourself. The exit is out the door here to your left....

And it went downhill that fast. Sigh. What a shame, it started so promisingly. The search goes on...

 

[Renolizzie]

Sorry, Eddard. It isn't easy finding a new doc. The doctor I found in Reno had a small clinic in the poor part of town. He was Sudanese. I needed to get a refill and I was new in town. I really ended up liking him a lot. Some thugs beat the crap out of him and he couldn't be a doctor anymore. Made me so sad.

Off to the next doctor interview, Eddard.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Next candidate, Tuesday, Feb 26th at 10:45....

 

[zapped]

It all boils down the simple fact that if youre doctor isnt related to you or having sex with you he doesn't have as much vested interest in you as you do.

In the end, its up to us to make sure we find a doctor thats both caring and knowledgeable.

Id no sooner see a doctor that knew nothing about vaping as I would trust an investment broker than knew nothing about micro loans ...something else Im very interested in and that can have a measurable affect on me ....just like vaping.

 

[J.R. Bob Dobbs]

have him take an x ray of your lungs with contrast and then see what he has to say!

 

[UncleChuck]

Okay, so I met doctor candidate #4 today. Wanna hear the story?

Oh you know you do. Here goes...

The doctor walks in. Looks about my age (I am 43). 6' tall, good shape, maybe 175 pounds or so. Has a confident air. That can be good or bad. Sometimes people like that are all sizzle and no steak. They are used to their manner getting them by, so the delivery means more than what is being said. We'll see. So I say hi, he says hi, and then:

Edd: So what is your view of e-cigs?
Doctor: I hear they have some unknowns, but the juice is the main determinant of the hazards in it, most today are reasonably safe for short and medium term use. I cannot recommend them for cessation, but if you are using them, fine.

Good answer!

Edd: Impressive. You know a little something about them, eh?
Doctor: Sure, they are gaining popularity. I am not saying they are safe, but I feel they reduce the risk for you to get nicotine. You vaping while quitting or just substituting?
Edd: Not sure in the long term. Probably a substitute for a good while. I'm waiting to hear the results of some long term studies.
Doctor: Okay, let me know how your experience is, you have been vaping for? (trails off waiting for me to fill in the blank)
Edd: 8 months, doc.

Looking good. He knows his stuff. Seems to listen. Check.

Doctor: Okay (makes a note on my paperwork, then grunts). Well I see here you are taking 225 mcg of Levothyroxin. That is way too much, we are gonna knock that down to 150 to start.

And my heart sinks....

Edd: Hang on there, doc. I spent a lot of time working with my former doctor to get these levels right. I get markers of thyroid deficiency below 225.
Doctor: (no longer seeming to really paying attention) Well that level is dangerous. We need to cut that back right away.
Edd: Don't we need to do some lab work first? At least shouldn't we knock it back in small increments like 25 or so until we see markers. I know we will at 200.
Doctor: (firmly, with an air of authority) You can't possibly know that, Mr. XXXXXX, I am not asking you, I am changing the prescription and working up from 150. (makes a dismissive gesture with his hands)
Edd: I can't believe you just said that.
Doctor: What?
Edd: You are not asking me? I am not gonna do that!
Doctor: You need a refill in seven days. You might want to consider that.
Edd: Do you think that I am so simple that I don't have a stockpile of Levothyroxin for this exact type situation? I think we are done here.
Doctor: (shrugs) Suit yourself. The exit is out the door here to your left....

And it went downhill that fast. Sigh. What a shame, it started so promisingly. The search goes on...

How messed up!

It's not like you were trying to score Oxycodone or something, it's Thyroid medication. Really? Seems like most all doctors are loons these days.

The comment about stockpiling might not have been a great idea, he might write down on your medical history you are known for abusing prescription drugs or something ridiculous like that. Can never trust a doctor. I'd much rather have nurses making choices than doctors.

Good luck in your search, don't give up, healthcare isn't something you want to "settle" on.

 

[txtumbleweed]

I had surgery for throat cancer in Dec and I vaped in ICU and in my room all the time I was there and all the doctors ask was what is that? It was a big 18650 Vamo so it didn't look like an ecig they had seen. I had three PV's on my tray all the time. They were very happy I was Vaping and had quit smoking for three years. I'm at the hospital everyday now for radiation treatment and vape there everyday. I've never asked for permission because they would probably have to say no.

 

[hrlw817]

Just as with everything there will be conflicting opinions.
What do you think you are?
Do you feel better?
Are you proud of what you have accomplished?

That is all that Should matter. This is a HUGE accomplishment for me. I am a non smoker and proud of it. I'm still addicted to nic and working on it. Will I feel bad if I'm not able to go to zero? No. Will I feel bad if I go back to cigs? Yes. In more ways than one....

Congrats on your personal accomplishment

Very well said!

 

[Ron AttyMizer]

I worked in the healthcare industry for almost 15 years as an SPD instrument tech manager for the OR. I am still quite friendly with a lot of the surgeons I worked with and to a one, they approve of and encourage vaping. I'm also sure that there are physicians out there who would disagree with them, the law of averages being what they are. For myself, what matters is that I feel better and I have medical proof to back it up, in the form of comparative chest X-rays a year apart as well as comparative respiratory testing. My health, which was a shambles, is improving. My personal physician is thrilled. A lot of business came to our local brick and mortar based on physician recommendation. Bring on unbiased long term medical testing and research because I'm fairly certain the facts will win out. Any physician who looks down upon vaping is biased, based on a preconceived notion from it's surface similarities to analog smoking.

 

[Tanti]

There is a insurance company here in Nebraska that does pay for vaping. I dont know which one it is, I was taking to this person at a vaping shop and he paints aircraft, he was tell us about it. It was really busy in the shop and I didnt get to ask what the name of the company was.

You need to fire that dr! Fire him.
you are not a smoker anymore. You do not take smoke into your lungs. course you know that but he needs to know that, what a closed mined @#$%, that starts with a J.

 

[EddardinWinter]

It all boils down the simple fact that if youre doctor isnt related to you or having sex with you he doesn't have as much vested interest in you as you do.

In the end, its up to us to make sure we find a doctor thats both caring and knowledgeable.

Id no sooner see a doctor that knew nothing about vaping as I would trust an investment broker than knew nothing about micro loans ...something else Im very interested in and that can have a measurable affect on me ....just like vaping.

Well, my 10:45 next week is a female. So you think I should ask her out to dinner and drinks, eh?

Yeah I know what you mean, in all seriousness. It has been a frustrating process.

 

[zapped]

Sounds like it. My wife is on levothyroxin as well, though not as high a dosage as you. I shudder to remember her before she started taking it so I can totally understand wanting to get it right.

The first time she went in the results came back negative on her thyroid....then 6 months later they told us what I already suspected