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It all depends on the build and wick and eliquid.
vaping at higher temperatures can potentially create some harmful toxins... more often than not, even those are lower then what was produced when using combustible tobacco. The temperature threshold, if memory serves, is around 500F.
Vaping at 12W CAN exceed that threshold with threshold (like a 1.5 ohm 30 AWG 4 wrap 2.5mm build or coil head). With other coils, it might not even produce vapor (think quad core alien clapton).
Vaping with a properly configured TC mod and TC build set to under 500 will not exceed that threshhold. If the mod or the build is improperly configured, then all bets are off.
Note that your tastebuds can guide you a little bit. If it's tasting foul... nasty, burnt, chemically... it's likely not good for you.
Remember that vaping is not necessarily about eliminating harms. We should all know that this is not harmless. It's about reducing or minimizing harms.
vaping at higher temperatures can potentially create some harmful toxins... more often than not, even those are lower then what was produced when using combustible tobacco. The temperature threshold, if memory serves, is around 500F.
Vaping at 12W CAN exceed that threshold with threshold (like a 1.5 ohm 30 AWG 4 wrap 2.5mm build or coil head). With other coils, it might not even produce vapor (think quad core alien clapton).
Vaping with a properly configured TC mod and TC build set to under 500 will not exceed that threshhold. If the mod or the build is improperly configured, then all bets are off.
Note that your tastebuds can guide you a little bit. If it's tasting foul... nasty, burnt, chemically... it's likely not good for you.
Remember that vaping is not necessarily about eliminating harms. We should all know that this is not harmless. It's about reducing or minimizing harms.
Airflow plays a huge roll too. 12w with a pin hole intake will skyrocket temps, compared to 120w with a 2mm x 8mm intake.
One thing to consider is preasure and temp curves from high school chem. As preasure decreases, vaporization temp will decrease too, as will combustion temp.
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One thing to consider is preasure and temp curves from high school chem. As preasure decreases, vaporization temp will decrease too, as will combustion temp.
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When I took high school chemistry the chemists were obsessed with turning lead to gold.
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As a compromise, I vape around 10 to 12 watts with Doggiestyle atomizers. Wattage/Temp is different for different atomizers, or so it seems to me. I use preheat or the Eleaf Pico 75 alternative mode. It is called 'Smart' mode. It is somewhat like preheat, but automatic. It is also adjustable per overall/top wattage as one would in VW mode. It is very similar, but no fussing to find that sweet spot in temperature. I don't know if other Eleaf Isticks have that mode available. The Pico 25 doesn't not appear to have that, but does have suitable preheat.
Yep, wattage alone cannot be used to predict coil temperature. There are many other variables that affect it.
Actually the knee of the curve is closer to 450°F / 230°C. Not far above 500°F / 260°C it starts tasting bad, and people are unlikely to go there. But even at the point of starting to taste bad, amount of formaldehyde is still only a fraction of that found in cigarette smoke.
These are the curves published by Wang that were temp based independent of vape hardware. Testing was in a SS reaction chamber.
This figure is a 100% VG
A 50/50 VG PG mix (differing amounts of PG and even water can markedly affect boiling points)
A commercial e juice
Original source A Device-Independent Evaluation of Carbonyl Emissions from Heated Electronic Cigarette Solvents
This figure is a 100% VG
A 50/50 VG PG mix (differing amounts of PG and even water can markedly affect boiling points)
A commercial e juice
Original source A Device-Independent Evaluation of Carbonyl Emissions from Heated Electronic Cigarette Solvents
For me - I'm a low wattage vaper using mtl RTAs, I haven't noticed a huge difference in the vape when using TC @ 400f or wattage mode @ 15watts. I just use TC mode, as I find it's more consistent on each coil build and it doesn't get warm when I chain vape.
There's plenty of TC gurus here (I ain't one of them
) - what mod, and atomiser were you using?
In terms of temp control versus watts:
Temp control attempts to keep a coil setup from "hot boxing" like a cigarette you take a bunch of quick drags from in a row. Watts does not.
I tried temp control in my mods and found the lowest settings seemed way hotter than vaping at my favorite 11 watts. It was like vaping at 20 watts for example.
My favorite pod setup became my favorite because it is temp controlled at 11 watts. Other non temp controlled pods I've used "hot box" when chain vaping.
Temp control attempts to keep a coil setup from "hot boxing" like a cigarette you take a bunch of quick drags from in a row. Watts does not.
I tried temp control in my mods and found the lowest settings seemed way hotter than vaping at my favorite 11 watts. It was like vaping at 20 watts for example.
My favorite pod setup became my favorite because it is temp controlled at 11 watts. Other non temp controlled pods I've used "hot box" when chain vaping.
I vape 2 Berserkers in temp mode with 30 gauge ss coils (1.2 to 1.4 ohms) @7 watts with the temp set for 400F.I also use a Kayfun V4 clone with a 30 gauge kanthal coil (2.4ohms) in power mode @ 7 watts.
The 2 vape pretty much the same,a nice cool vape with more than enough cloud for me.
The 2 vape pretty much the same,a nice cool vape with more than enough cloud for me.
In the 2015 NEJM study that you are indirectly alluding to, they took a vape, ran it well beyond the recommended voltage, and detected great amounts of formaldehyde in the output: as much as an entire pack of cigarettes! What they didn't mention is had anyone actually tasted the output it would have been the mother of dry hits—completely unbearable because the cotton was scorching. At the recommended voltage the output was clean.
You own a highly sensitive instrument that can protect you from things that can harm you: it's called your tongue. Trust it.
Also bear in mind the ancient maxim of toxicology:
All things are poison, and nothing is without poison, the dosage alone makes it so a thing is not a poison. —Paracelsus
You own a highly sensitive instrument that can protect you from things that can harm you: it's called your tongue. Trust it.
Also bear in mind the ancient maxim of toxicology:
All things are poison, and nothing is without poison, the dosage alone makes it so a thing is not a poison. —Paracelsus
Moreover there seems to be a vague societal fear of unspecified toxins, and the idea that these toxins accumulate over time to dangerous levels, like a sort of radiation exposure. This is irrational thinking akin to superstition, and the only ones who profit by it are the snake oil salesmen.
A corollary of Paracelcus' maxim is that nothing is harmful in sufficiently small doses. If this wasn't true, humanity would have been wiped out by low-level air pollution a long time ago.
But there is a kernel of truth to the fear. Modern science tells us that fat-soluble substances linger in the body longer than water-soluble ones. That is why we don't vape oils. Indeed, even formaldehyde is water-soluble—it just doesn't build up in the body.
A corollary of Paracelcus' maxim is that nothing is harmful in sufficiently small doses. If this wasn't true, humanity would have been wiped out by low-level air pollution a long time ago.
But there is a kernel of truth to the fear. Modern science tells us that fat-soluble substances linger in the body longer than water-soluble ones. That is why we don't vape oils. Indeed, even formaldehyde is water-soluble—it just doesn't build up in the body.
NO ONE KNOWS!!!!! Can I just state that.
I have used TC mode for some of my mods and never hit temp protect because I rotate so many setups I don't wind up chain vaping.
I would think (with any mod) if you chainvape it would overheat. That is what TC mode is for to stop that process. I use it in the car sometimes when I only have a few mods.
I am NO expert but I will say if you chainvape even MTL stuff at low wattage. it can over heat. That is probably bad.
As someone who was TOTALLY freaked at the beginning I am going to say early on I am fairly sure I overheated a tank or two by chain vaping it
I'm still here and healthier than before.
ALL THIS IS ANNECDOTAL. It doesn't answer the question at ALL as it is as yet totally unanswerable.
You are just going to have to you know, make a decision for yourself. That is all there is to it.
Anna
I have used TC mode for some of my mods and never hit temp protect because I rotate so many setups I don't wind up chain vaping.
I would think (with any mod) if you chainvape it would overheat. That is what TC mode is for to stop that process. I use it in the car sometimes when I only have a few mods.
I am NO expert but I will say if you chainvape even MTL stuff at low wattage. it can over heat. That is probably bad.
As someone who was TOTALLY freaked at the beginning I am going to say early on I am fairly sure I overheated a tank or two by chain vaping it
I'm still here and healthier than before.
ALL THIS IS ANNECDOTAL. It doesn't answer the question at ALL as it is as yet totally unanswerable.
You are just going to have to you know, make a decision for yourself. That is all there is to it.
Anna
Yep... There is no hard and fast s ience behind this yet, unfortunatly,. And too many people have too much interest in putting out studies bent to their goal, it will be some time until good data is available.
As for the difference between MTL and DTL and heat, MTL heats up faster, for me any way. I use TC almost exclusively. I cut the air flow down to sample flavors. I MTL at about 25w, depending on coil mass and juice type.
With restricted air, my atty heats up faster, and transfers heat to the mod more redily, than at 160w with wide open air.
Also, chemical reactions, as well as vaporization temps decrease relative to pressure, so as you create a vacuum in the atty, the needed temps for achieving the same effects drop.
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The pressure drop drop in an atty from drawing on it is quite low; likely too low to have a noticeable effect on boiling points.
Really? I invite you to Google the term "carb cap" to see how little restriction is needed to create a drop in pressure necessary to alter the vaporization points.
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