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Sorry if that took you by surprise, but my favorite 510 device comes with a built in ceramic carb cap. The differences in flavor as well as other effects are quite noticeable with only a 2-3psi drop. It's the difference between a restricted DTL and an airy MTL.Somehow, I was expecting to find something pertaining to a now all but obsolete device that mixed gasoline with air for use in an engine.
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@HigherStateD I gave you an informative but I wish there was also an "I don't understand" button.
From what you have said though, I still think I am (mostly) okay I vape at supremely low wattages but airflow WIDE OPEN 99% of the time. That's my proffered vaping stile. Oh I also have about 15 setups or so going, if I puff on something too long, I change it.
I truly think I need TC in the car only which is when I use it. I never hit temp protest at home without trying. I see no point wasting my batteries on monitoring my coil. I appear to be fairly able at monitoring my coil myself. I guess I could be deluded.
Anan
From what you have said though, I still think I am (mostly) okay I vape at supremely low wattages but airflow WIDE OPEN 99% of the time. That's my proffered vaping stile. Oh I also have about 15 setups or so going, if I puff on something too long, I change it.
I truly think I need TC in the car only which is when I use it. I never hit temp protest at home without trying. I see no point wasting my batteries on monitoring my coil. I appear to be fairly able at monitoring my coil myself. I guess I could be deluded.
Anan
Depending on the chip, it's most likely monitoring the coil as well as a few other things even in wattage mode. The way I use TC, IS mainly to achieve faster ramp time while limiting wattage after my desired temp is achieved. With wide open air, the vacuum you generate by sucking isn't contained by restriction, so the pressure in your chamber never drops. The people that want that tight MTL draw of a cigarette, that is creating a pressure differential which lowers the temp needed for vaporization and chemical reactions... Producing more DAAP and aldehydes that make the custard flavors taste do good.
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Curious as to how you came to that conclusion. Within Escribe I just plotted a coil within a dual purpose atomizer that allows a wide open, airy DTL and a restricted MTL that also employed a restricted drip tip. The resistance of the coil rose higher in the restricted config than the wide open indicating to me that the redistricted is hotter.
It's a not-to-be-mentioned-here sort of knowledge, buy what you're saying is confirming my hypothisis of MTL getting hotter than DTL.
Think elevated altitude cooking. In Denver, water boils at a lower temp than it would at sea level.
So a MTL user, would benefit more from temp control, as decreasing the pressure decreases the vaporization point, but by decreasing it so much that sufficiently adequate cooling isn't achievable.
This graphic is for H20, but holds for any phase change.
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It's a not-to-be-mentioned-here sort of knowledge, buy what you're saying is confirming my hypothisis of MTL getting hotter than DTL.
Think elevated altitude cooking. In Denver, water boils at a lower temp than it would at sea level.
So a MTL user, would benefit more from temp control, as decreasing the pressure decreases the vaporization point, but by decreasing it so much that sufficiently adequate cooling isn't achievable.
This graphic is for H20, but holds for any phase change.
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Didn’t catch your earlier comments.
I get that water boils at a lower temp with increased pressure. But it’s applying that controlled reaction in an uncontrolled environment. Your above post eludes that MTL users vape at a lower temperatures due to the increase in pressure. I fail to see this when there are so many variables involved.
I am by far an expert at what causes formaldehyde, but if it begins to form at 480°F at sea level, does that change with pressure?
Yes, as pressure decreases, that formation temp will increase slightly, but only slightly, where as the vaporization temp will decrease drastically. The issue is that MTL style atomizers allow the heat at the coil to increase far faster, and unevenly, than in an air cooled chamber.
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I would figure this would scale at a similar rate. Do we have any objective data that states such?
This would indicate static parameters. You have no way of knowing whether your MTL coil is heating up faster than my DTL coil. In a control environment where all is equal this would seem logical. But with my above experiment the coil heated at the same rate up to a certain point when airflow becomes an influence. If there are any difference they are too minute for the limited resolution of Escribe to identify.
The difference is that it's the high end of the curve for vapor production, and the low end of the curve for reactions. A slight decrease in pressure would have a dramatic effect on the vapor produced, but even a slight decrease in air cooling would raise the interns temp if the CHAMBER (note: not the coil as read in escribe, or at tic fox, as I use. Sorry for the confusion) That drastic increase in temp, because of lack of adequate cooling, creates the situation I am describing.
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Part of the confusion was due to the fact I read the last post first. It’s Sunday, a day of rest and my brain exploits that to the extremes!
But the point I am trying to get across is there are so many unknown variables involved to come to any kind of conclusion – hence my original question. We have the data that states water at x pressure boils at y temperature because we are working with know values. What is the pressure of your atomizer and how does everything else involved effect the final product?
test conducted by ECF member @mikepetro . I have read this before, just didn’t stick to memory….see above statement on Sunday’s
Mike only tested one atomizer but I cannot see vast differences happening with other models. But he concluded that the pressure within an atty is too low to have any impact on boiling (vaporizing) point.
Juice Boiling Point and Vaping Temperatures | E-Cigarette Forum
Mike only tested one atomizer but I cannot see vast differences happening with other models. But he concluded that the pressure within an atty is too low to have any impact on boiling (vaporizing) point.
Juice Boiling Point and Vaping Temperatures | E-Cigarette Forum
And here is the problem with that test:
The range of vacuum being pulled by what "I" consider an average MTL hit was -.03psi to -.07psi
If you're only pulling 0.03-0.07psi vacuum, you're only going to get that much vacuum. Most cigalikes/pods/MTL Artie's require more caccuum to function. My nautilus, for instance, won't generate any vapor at 0.07psi.
For me, at least, my cheeks are stuck against my teeth. As I figure it, that's at least half a pound of negative preasure on more than one square inch.
Sucking a golf ball through a garden hose!
So that is your subjective analysis and not something that was measured with any kind of accuracy. Lets say for the sake of conversation this is fact – how does that translate to lowering the boiling point within your atomizer?
Sucking a golf ball through a garden hose!
So that is your subjective analysis and not something that was measured with any kind of accuracy. Lets say for the sake of conversation this is fact – how does that translate to lowering the boiling point within your atomizer?
I'm not allowed to discuss how I know these things.Sucking a golf ball through a garden hose!
So that is your subjective analysis and not something that was measured with any kind of accuracy. Lets say for the sake of conversation this is fact – how does that translate to lowering the boiling point within your atomizer?
But I'll give it my best go with out trying to offend anyone or the filter, now that I have a moment.
I have a clear quartz atomizer with an opaque section that visibly changes colors through the temperature spectrum.
This atomizer will produce flavorful hits at lower temperatures. This atomizer will only produce hit at low temperature with the air flow restricted to a tight DTL style or better.
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You are correct in that, all else being equal, a MTL hit is hotter than a DL hit. I verified this with NIST traceable instrumentation. However it not because of pressure, its because of the cooling effect of increased airflow in DL hit.
Do try to actually measure a vacuum some time. A .5 PSI vacuum would totally collapse an empty soda can. Most vacuum applications are measured in inches of h2O as even 1" of vacuum is a lot of force. A vacuum of 7" of h2O is enough to lift 5+ pounds. I know this because that is what we calibrate our "Lift Assist" devices to at work. There are used to lift parts with a 1 inch diameter suction cup. I doubt you can even lift 1 lb with the suction created by the average mouth.
ive sucked so hard i swallowed the numbers off the digital readout on my mod
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