Electronic Cigarette industry testing board

[rolygate]

News has been received of moves to create an industry testing board to provide a safety rating system for products. This has apparently resulted from the imminent application of the EMSS safety guidelines for APVs, due to be implemented in June. Some industry figures thought that it may be better if an independent body or third party is in the position of creating safety standards.

Apparently they have a destruction testing engineer and are currently seeking an electronics engineer who is not a manufacturer or on permanent vendor's staff. Board members are sought from the community. The basic idea seems to be that a mix of community reps and trade reps would be on the board, plus independent testing engineers.

A token fee would be charged for testing, and a scale or rating system with varying levels would be used instead of a straight pass/fail system.

We would agree with this move and hope it can get off the ground.

 

[Petrodus]

Excellent
Considering the times we live in ...
I'm sure if they were open today, they would be busy

 

[TennDave]

This is good news- better to test and rate than to just ban outright!! A step in the right direction if it's handled right!!

 

[rothenbj]

Sounds promising. Is this only the hardware side or are they looking at liquid testing too?

 

[WickedSick]

It was about time

 

[kwalka]

Some industry figures

Is it safe to assume that you would of been more specific about this reference, if you could of been?

 

[rolygate]

It's better not to be too specific about these things while it's just being talked about. Vendors can get too involved with inter-personal disagreements that lead to difficulties in working together to achieve common goals, so that if vendor X or vendor Y is said to be involved, then vendor Z will not be interested.

Instead, it is better to concentrate on what the goal is rather than worry too much about who is involved so far. The personnel involved in these things changes over time anyway.

We are going to delay implementation of EMSS for a couple of weeks or so, until some sort of progress is made on this. If nothing gets done we'll roll out the EMSS fully by the end of June.

 

[kwalka]

It's better not to be too specific about these things while it's just being talked about. Vendors can get too involved with inter-personal disagreements that lead to difficulties in working together to achieve common goals, so that if vendor X or vendor Y is said to be involved, then vendor Z will not be interested.

Instead, it is better to concentrate on what the goal is rather than worry too much about who is involved so far. The personnel involved in these things changes over time anyway.

We are going to delay implementation of EMSS for a couple of weeks or so, until some sort of progress is made on this. If nothing gets done we'll roll out the EMSS fully by the end of June.

One of these days I will learn to stop questioning you.

 

[rolygate]

Well, it's interesting to discuss these things, anyway

I really hope the trade can get moving on this as ECF doesn't want to be in the position of having to come up with design improvements or asking people to use them. We're the 'solution of last resort' and it's a position we don't want to be in. There are some industry issues that are not being resolved and sooner or later the media and governments will make life very hard for us unless the trade step up to the plate.

As an example, a Scottish hospital has banned the use of e-cigarettes due to 'the fire risk from dangerous exploding e-cigarettes'. Somebody has to address this, and sometimes it's hard to escape the feeling that the trade suffer from institutionalized cowardice. Sooner or later action will be taken by somebody to fix it, and our worry is that it will be governments and not the trade. It will be far, far less painful if the trade sort it out but they just don't seem to get it.

The ideal situation would be that the trade have a testing board or organization to provide standards. If that was in place we could advise consumers that there is some sort of safety scale or whatever for their use, products are rated by the board according to perceived or tested safety or other factors the board consider relevant. When that is done, there becomes a marketing advantage to having a product that scores highly and the worry is taken out of it for the buyer. We can also tell regulators that we already have in place a standards org.

Maybe it's just an unachievable dream. I hope not.

 

[kwalka]

I must say I did find it odd that ECF is prepared to "hang it out there" w EMSS, but backed off of the CBS thing. It seems to me they are both the same animal, except w EMSS ECF is playing w business' income. Not playing but you know what I mean...

 

[bnrkwest]

This is fabulous! I think it will help the public view of ecigs as well. Just like the hospital ban, if they knew 808's were relatively safe for explosions/burning, maybe they could limit users to 808's while in the hospital for instance. Keep up the good work! bnrk

 

[Vocalek]

I must say I did find it odd that ECF is prepared to "hang it out there" w EMSS, but backed off of the CBS thing. It seems to me they are both the same animal, except w EMSS ECF is playing w business' income. Not playing but you know what I mean...

I must point out that CBS News specifically asked for vapers in the Washington DC area. Rolygate lives in England!!!

So would you please, for the love of Mike, stop accusing him of cowardice for not insisting that he be interviewed by CBS News?

Had it been a BBC inquiry, he might have been the perfect candidate. But since the reporter specifically asked for people located in the Washington DC area, I was the logical person to handle this particular media request.

The reporter had already interviewed representatives from the FDA and from the American Lung Association, and at that point was looking for a vaper or two to ask, "Aren't you afraid to use those things because the FDA and the ALA say they are not safe?" As it turns out, I was able to get an opposing view on the record by taking Dr. Riccardo Polosa, who just completed a study of using e-cigarettes for smoking cessation, to the DC studio of CBS news for an interview.

 

[rolygate]

I must say I did find it odd that ECF is prepared to "hang it out there" w EMSS, but backed off of the CBS thing. It seems to me they are both the same animal, except w EMSS ECF is playing w business' income. Not playing but you know what I mean...

We don't have any staff in DC, plus CASAA both have the people and know the game. With a TV interview it's best to have people who know nothing about it and obviously know nothing, or alternatively have some politically slick operators. Somewhere in between can turn out less than useful. The CASAA board are veterans of dozens of interviews and presentations, and know what they're doing. Believe me that was a good decision.

EMSS is a step toward persuading some people in the industry that we are in the 21st century not the 19th. I'm hopeful that the trade itself will take over this role, although it may take a bit more time. About the time their State shapes up to ban the sale of 'these dangerous ecigs', maybe.

[edit]
Looks like Elaine is defending me here so I'll back out

 

[kwalka]

I must point out that CBS News specifically asked for vapers in the Washington DC area. Rolygate lives in England!!!

So would you please, for the love of Mike, stop accusing him of cowardice for not insisting that he be interviewed by CBS News?

Had it been a BBC inquiry, he might have been the perfect candidate. But since the reporter specifically asked for people located in the Washington DC area, I was the logical person to handle this particular media request.

The reporter had already interviewed representatives from the FDA and from the American Lung Association, and at that point was looking for a vaper or two to ask, "Aren't you afraid to use those things because the FDA and the ALA say they are not safe?" As it turns out, I was able to get an opposing view on the record by taking Dr. Riccardo Polosa, who just completed a study of using e-cigarettes for smoking cessation, to the DC studio of CBS news for an interview.

I am well aware that several people have commented on this topic. However this is the first time I have mentioned it besides to ask you in the CBS thread when it will air. How do you misconstrue my comparison of the 2 topics to me accusing him or any ECF member in the DC area of being a coward? I was simply saying how IMO the 2 are quite conflicting positions to take. I was just making an observation. I'm pretty sure he knows that.
The more I type just now the more I hope you were addressing the issue as a whole vs my comment.

 

[Uncle Willie]

Hip Hip, Horray .. !!

 

[kwalka]

I'm going to back out if you feel you need defending. Please pardon me.

 

[Petrodus]

The reporter had already interviewed representatives from the FDA and from the American Lung Association, and at that point was looking for a vaper or two to ask, "Aren't you afraid to use those things because the FDA and the ALA say they are not safe?" As it turns out, I was able to get an opposing view on the record by taking Dr. Riccardo Polosa, who just completed a study of using e-cigarettes for smoking cessation, to the DC studio of CBS news for an interview.

Yea, I thought the reporter wasn't interested in the truth but just Yet Another
biased report against e-cigarettes. The game was "rigged" ... Glad you and Dr. Polosa
were there to put the truth in her face.

Will be interesting to see the "Edited" interview. I think its safe to assume CBS
will chop it up to take sides with the FDA & ALA. Slanted "reality TV show" type
reporting is the norm for journalism today.

What is important, of course, we continue to "Pump-Out" the truth. A day will
come when the truth will be "common knowledge".

 

[rolygate]

I'm going to back out if you feel you need defending. Please pardon me.

Me? Old enough and ugly enough to defend myself, thanks

All Elaine was saying is that she thought I made the right decision. Let's carry on where we left off. Not sure where that was...

 

[DC2]

Let's carry on where we left off. Not sure where that was...

It seems to me that the American vaping outfits are all too small and inexperienced for political action.
Or at least they think they are... or at least they are afraid they are... or at least they are afraid it will be too expensive.

Some of them may be making a lot of money, but it is kind of hard not to do well in the current climate of explosive growth.
In other words, I think we have vendors that will be in over their heads when the poop hits the blades.

When things get a little harder, and competition gets tougher the slick operators will be ready.
And TVECA is the example of how that's going to play out.

I would LOVE to find a way to fix this problem, but it seems to be a problem that was almost destined.

Easy money in an explosive growth industry allowed for inexperienced folks to make up much of the market we know and love.
And those that know the game, well, they know it is a game that doesn't include us.

Anyway, those are my thoughts, and have been for some time.
In the end TVECA, and those like them, might be our biggest enemy.

 

[Petrodus]

It seems to me that the American vaping outfits are all too small and inexperienced
for political action. Or at least they think they are... or at least they are afraid they are...
or at least they are afraid it will be too expensive.

Some of them may be making a lot of money, but it is kind of hard not to do well in the
current climate of explosive growth. In other words, I think we have vendors that will be
in over their heads when the poop hits the blades.

My feed back is most venders are keeping their fingers crossed and
hoping for the best. Most really don't want to go "high profile".