Electronic ciggarettes are not what you think

[MMW]

Hear me out. E-cigs are simply a substitute, hell even a worse substitute for smoking. I have been addicted for 5 years now, and I used E-cigs for 2 of those years. People, smoking cigarettes is not the problem, the problem is nicotine! It is the DRUG, a highly addictive one at that, which keeps you addicted. Now imagine you have a hand tool at your disposal at all times, doesn't require going outside and lighting up in a controlled fashion, just a tool that you can press a button any time to get the nicotine, that is what an E-cig is! I know I ingested the most nicotine ever when I used a vape. The fact that you can just press the button several times a minute and inhale with no concern means you will ingest more nicotine. And of course, with the way our brains work, you will become more powerless to avoid pressing that button and inhaling, because it feels oh so good with every cloud. Another problem I wanted to address is your skin. There have been a lot of questions and rumors about vaping and acne. These aren't rumors, they are fact. Persistent vaping each day will indeed cause skin problems, especially on your face. It is not traditional acne, it is a form of skin necrosis. Nicotine is a vasoconstrictor, and of course vaping encourages an even more prevelant dosage of nicotine in your blood stream at all times of the day. This constant vaping, along with the effect of propelyne glycol, a main ingredient in E liquids (also used in anti-freeze) will dry out the skin and constrict the flow of skin enriching nutrients through your blood vessels. This will cause dry, itchy, irritated skin with in-grown red bumps. This happens because you are constantly de-hydrating your skin while simultaneously constricting the blood vessels. Whether it's cigarettes or vapes, both are just horrible for your lungs,heart and your skin. My advice is to seek professional help, and maybe start on a nicotine gum or lozenge that you can ween off of. Those products are not pleasurable compared to vaping, which is why they will work better in terms of quitting. Vaping nicotine will never make you quit because vaping feels even better!

Welcome to ECF!
Hear me out.....

 

[Bea-FL]

Me too, by the end of it, after my last failure on the patch (which actually increased my tolerance) I was closer to 70+ a day

Just walking to the mailbox about 100 yards away I'd be out of breath, no running... no jogging... just walking slow... I felt like I was 80... I was 33... and I can run now... I cycle a lot now and jog a little, I do about 2km each day... It's not really that much but I couldn't dream about doing it a year and a half ago... I do a lot of the things I used to just sit there and watch people do because I knew I wouldn't last long...

It doesn't matter how many bad things people say, I know how much vaping improved my life, hell I probably would have died sooner than later... Vaping saved my life and now I fight to save vaping!

I am soooo happy for you. I only smoked a PAD but I can relate about how much better you feel and the things you can do now!

 

[Zakillah]

I sm math-stupid but would like to figure out my smoking vs vaping numbers of nic. Can you please give me the way to do it (add this to this, divide this to that etc).

There is no formula to this, really. Depends on a lot of things, like Asylumsix already said.
What brand did you smoke (strength on package)? Did you do long and sharp pulls? How many pulls a minute?

Depending on these variables everything between 0.1 and up to ~3mg is possible.

The variables to get the pack print data are:
-35mL puffs
-puff length is 2 seconds
-1 puff per minute

This is rather "relaxed" smoking and I guess most smokers will pull more frequent then that and with more volume.

 

[tj99959]

Deaths related to smoking last year .... 489,000 in US
*CDC
Deaths related to vaping last year .... 0 world wide
*CDC/WHO

Need any more information?

add:
skin problem from vaping would be from PG/VG ...... NOT nicotine!!!!!!

 

[Bea-FL]

Why are cigarettes addictive? Nicotine has been villainized as the culprit, but it may not be nicotine in itself that makes them so. Rather, it's likely the MAO inhibitors found in burning tobacco coupled with nicotine. Nicotine on its own has been found to be much less addictive than previously believed.

Monoamine Oxidase Inhibition Dramatically Increases the Motivation to Self-Administer Nicotine in Rats

These compounds are not present in e-liquid, which could be why vapers (in general?) have an easy time cutting down their nic levels, many to 0 level, some quitting altogether. I myself have cut down from 30mg to 10mg over the years.

I know at least some (many/most/all?) vapers have found they suffer withdrawals when switching from smoking to vaping. We are getting nicotine, so what are we withdrawing from? Perhaps compounds found in burning tobacco are responsible. Once the withdrawals are done, vapers (in general?) find they finally have a measure of control over the addiction (the addiction, IMO, includes the rituals and the hand to mouth thing- could this play a bigger part than nicotine?).

This has been true for me and I know for others, but I can't say it's true for all vapers. Oh, and I have no skin issues. The last years I smoked, I did not enjoy it at all. I do enjoy vaping. I might vape until the day I die and I don't see the issue with that.

Vandal that's me all over! My first decrease in nic was from 18mg to 14mg - no symptoms. How could I do that if nic is so highly addictive as we are told. (Rhetorical question of course.) I've been decreasing by 2mg ever since - no symptoms.

I plan to get down to 4-5mg and stay there because of the TH which is something I need & have been told is non-existant in lower mg. I dont plan to ever quit and dont apologize for it anymore.

Oh, and the patch. Didnt work for me. I smoked with it on!

 

[Katmar]

The OP posted at 1:06 am yesterday, and that was the last time he was seen. Does make one wonder what his motives truly are. At any rate, if you don't do the research, you are bereft of the actual knowledge regarding vaping.

 

[retired1]

Considering some of the replies the membership made in this thread, I'd be hesitant to come back as well.

 

[Katmar]

Considering some of the replies the membership made in this thread, I'd be hesitant to come back as well.

Yes, but what I am saying is that he posted this, then immediately left the forum. "Last seen at 1:06am yesterday". Doesn't that mean that he posted and left right away? If so, he hasn't seen ANY of the posts after his.

 

[retired1]

Don't have to log in to see the replies as the General Discussion forum is open to the public.

Edited to add:

And it still doesn't excuse the behavior of some in this thread.

 

[Completely Average]

Don't have to log in to see the replies as the General Discussion forum is open to the public.

Edited to add:

And it still doesn't excuse the behavior of some in this thread.

While that is true, this thread is a clear case of trolling. An obviously inflammatory post that was only intended to rile the people who vape and generate lots of angry responses. Filled with FUD and misinformation the intent of the OP is pretty obvious. And judging from the 9 pages of responses without the OP making a single post to defend his position I would say he's probably pretty happy with the result.

 

[retired1]

While that is true, this thread is a clear case of trolling. An obviously inflammatory post that was only intended to rile the people who vape and generate lots of angry responses. Filled with FUD and misinformation the intent of the OP is pretty obvious. And judging from the 9 pages of responses without the OP making a single post to defend his position I would say he's probably pretty happy with the result.

While the original post was most likely posted to obtain negative responses, it still does not excuse the behavior of those that responded in kind. Posts refuting the original with facts, yes. Trolling right back at the OP? No. This is not what ECF is about and we're not going to be like other sites and forums where anything goes.

Forum Rules

8. Courtesy
a. Members must be polite at all times. When addressing another Forum user, you will be polite. Courteous discussion is welcome here but heated and abusive argument is not. If attacked you are not allowed to respond in kind. Instead use the Private Message system and try to resolve matters privately and amicably. If problems persist ask for the help of a Moderator.
b. Suppliers cannot post negative material about other suppliers or their products or service or prices, whether they are ECF Suppliers or not.
ECF Suppliers Terms of Service

9. Personal attacks
You can disagree with the subject matter of a post, but never personally attack the poster - “Attack the post, not the poster”. Treat people as you would like to be treated yourself: with courtesy.

10. Misconduct
a. These are not permitted -

• Flaming (insults).
• Criticising or complaining about a Moderator, or how the site is run, except via PM (private message).
• Discussion or mention of illegal/illicit drugs or sexual content.
• Posting of vulgar videos.
• Obscene or vulgar language.
• Trying to place offensive text in a post by evading the forum's built-in word censor, using symbols or alternative letters for example.
• Multiple identities/accounts: each member is allowed only one account on the ECF Forums. This also applies to Facebookers (one account only on ECF).
• Spamming for post count (placing meaningless posts) is against the rules.

b. Posting photos or pictures that some may find offensive or unacceptable is not permitted. Naked or semi-naked pictures of people are not permitted. As matters of taste cannot have a hard definition, Moderators will determine what is or is not acceptable - if you are unsure, then do not post the material.
c. Links to offensive materials of this type are prohibited.
d. Improper solicitation of goods, services, or monies from suppliers or other members; and/or giving instructions to others on how to solicit products. ECF is a 'no begging zone'.
e. Posting affiliate links or tracking links is not allowed.

 

[Completely Average]

While the original post was most likely posted to obtain negative responses, it still does not excuse the behavior of those that responded in kind.

Not arguing that point at all, which is why I didn't participate in it.

But to be frank, this thread probably should have been closed almost as quickly as it was posted. I think it's a pretty clear violation of Forum Rule #11. Any thread that "was most likely posted to obtain negative responses" would be a violation of Rule #11, would it not?

11. Trolling ('fishing expeditions' in search of a strong reaction)
Trolling includes but is not restricted to:

• Posting something deliberately inflammatory - either to start a 'flame war' or simply to cause difficulties for the Moderators.
  
  
  

 

[retired1]

The OP didn't cause the difficulty. The membership did. This was a golden opportunity to educate someone and was promptly ignored by some.

 

[Bronze]

Close the thread. The membership is clearly not worthy of having it stay open when more than half the posts have been deleted.

I'll do my part and unsubscribe.

 

[ScandaLeX]

The OP didn't cause the difficulty. The membership did. This was a golden opportunity to educate someone and was promptly ignored by some.

Quickie question- is the OP getting a pass cause they were a new member posting so much wrong information.
Would this same post had fallen under Rule #11 if it had been a long standing member?

 

[retired1]

Quickie question- is the OP getting a pass cause they were a new member posting so much wrong information.
Would this same post had fallen under Rule #11 if it had been a long standing member?

Considering the amount of negative information that's out there, and the tendency of the press to perpetuate those negatives, what do you think? I run into this kind of misinformation all the time, and I don't belittle or insult the individual. Neither should the longer standing members of ECF.

 

[MMW]

Educate someone that solely posted for getting negative responses? Educate someone who is trolling?

 

[Frenchfry1942]

Thinking more on it, it was trolling. If that one was addressed, with an explanation to them, education on vaping, social interaction, and manners could have occurred.

If ECF is a "light" for support, then address those things that clearly try to extinguish it. A lot of members were doing that, maybe not all in the best way, but their intent was clear.

 

[subwayaznm]

There is not much worse than giving an opinion without having all of the facts; but I think saying on a public venue I think tops that.
Kinda like it's one thing for people to think you're stupid, but don't open your mouth and verify it. But as stated earlier everyone is entitled to their opinion; we don't have to be in agreement.

 

[Marina2]

The OP was a troll post and it was effective. Yes, there are misinformed people, I get that. But, if I went to a flashlight collectors forum and made my first post stating that it was a stupid worthless hobby, likely to cause injury and should be stopped, I'd be trolling. If I related that to a family member or friend then no, I'd just be giving my opinion. Context makes a huge difference. Surprised this thread is still going.

ETA: I don't blame the membership for not trying to educate an obvious troll but I'm surprised so many fell into the trap he/she set.