eLiquid Bans and such.

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wv2win

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At the top of every page is an alert that tends to mention CASAA. I would bet that a small minority of threads go without a CASAA banner.
If the vast majority of new vapers aren't learning about CASAA it's because they don't want to. And no matter how much you brow beat them you're not going to change their minds. I would even guess that for every one you manage to brow beat into submission 2 will never join because of you.
If you were correct CASAA would have at least 100,000 members.

My logic is unsupportable???????
It's you claiming how I think that is unsupportable. Haven't you also tried to dictate what wattage I like? Even if you were psychic you can't get passed my tinfoil barrier. Give it up.

Of course my banner has nothing to do with getting people to join CASAA. I never said it did. It does however negate the claims that vaping is more expensive since I have an expenses line (which also links to CASAA, BTW). It does give people feeling weak and thinking about giving up some incentive. If there aren't any vapers there won't be anyone to join CASAA.
I keep them vaping, you brow beat them to get them to join CASAA. Like it or not we're a team.

Are you telling me that you have never been turned off by constant bombardment of advertising and it works on you? No wonder you think you can harass people into doing what you want.

Your personal view on what my vape counter means is nothing more than your personal view. You really need to work on that egocentric view of the universe.

There you go again Myk, overreacting as usual. Try to get a grip.

DC2 & I would like to see every ECF member have a CASAA banner on their posts so new members will be more likely to join. We encourage people to learn about CASAA and join. You equate that to browbeating. I think some would call it educating and encouraging.

You stated "If the vast majority of new vapers aren't learning about CASAA it's because they don't want to." How do you come up with that "reasoning"? You have some special insight into their minds through the internet airwaves? I've gotten the following response a number of times from new members after explaining CASAA to them: "thanks for telling me about CASAA, I didn't know about them and what they do. I just joined".

I'm not against "I quit smoking banners". Many of us just believe that a CASAA banner has a more important function, if it gets even one person to join CASAA.

I questioned your "logic" in equating a "stop smoking" banner being as effective as a "CASAA banner" in getting new members to join CASAA. I didn't attack you personally. Yet you respond with these words: brow beat, harass and egocentric. Your personal attacks helps no one, especially yourself. How about we just discuss our differences on what will get more people to join CASAA and leave the personal attacks to the side.
 

wv2win

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A certain type of processed unmentionable can(only just) be used in ecig hardware unfortunately.

A very small crossover of hardware but one that can be used against vaping.

I have no idea if this is true or not, but several years ago on ECF, a member stated that vaping hardware could not be used for substances other than eliquid due to the low heat level generated by PV's and that these other substances require much higher heat levels. If true, that would be a positive, IMO.
 

Coastal Cowboy

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Sorry to be late on this, but yes, "they" can ban nicotine e-liquids. My country has. A couple of months ago, apparently. I didn't even know about the ban, because I wasn't vaping yet, but now I do. You cannot buy nicotine liquid openly here.

"They" cannot ban nicotine in the US. The Congress itself has decreed that Tobacco production and distribution is “one of the greatest basic industries of the United States,” and has repeatedly asserted itself as having the sole authority to regulate the industry as part of its Constitutionally enumerated power under the interstate commerce clause. Congress has delegated some of that authority to FDA, but it has never (nor will it ever) delegate the power to end such an economically and politically important industry. If FDA did try to usurp that authority again (it tried in 2009), the action wouldn't survive the first day in a federal district court. FDA can't even tax nicotine--that too is a power retained solely by Congress.

What FDA can do--and probably will do--is establish standards for the manufacture, distribution, labeling and marketing of e-liquids that contain nicotine. They can also impose age limits and take steps to limit access to minors. The larger e-liquid companies already meet these standards and are prepared for such regulation.

The industry and consumers should welcome such regulation with open arms. It cuts the ANTZ crowd completely out. Our opponents are not FDA, tobacco or pharmaceutical companies. We need to target the groups that willingly spread misinformation about electronic cigarettes and counter their every move with facts. That however, takes time and money.

CASAA's "all volunteer" model is not well suited for this. They need to find a steady source of income, hire a staff and start behaving as a full grown lobbyist organization. There aren't enough e-cig users to mount a sustained, successful grassroots movement. This is not a job for amateurs.
 

skyztheLynnit

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If I quit vaping I no longer care about the attacks on vaping (well, I'd care but not enough to pay attention until it's too late).

Why would you not care?? Knowing that ecigs truly do help people kick the habit. If that option was not there to help others quit.. if the attacks on vaping turned into a ban on ecigs.. You woul only care unless YOU were vaping? Not the others it may help?

Maybe I'm reading you wrong..
 

Myk

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There you go again Myk, overreacting as usual. Try to get a grip.

Sorry but the one who said this doesn't get to make that claim,

It doesn't surprise me that we don't agree and that your "logic" is...........unsupportable. If everyone on ECF had a CASAA banner, then the vast majority of new vapers would see that and at least be interested in finding out more about CASAA, which would by the very nature of statistics and psychology lead to more CASAA members. Your personal "vape counter" is nothing more to "others" than a "hey, look at me and how good I am" banner. It does nothing to get people interested in learning about and hopefully joining CASAA. Why do you think they show the same product advertisement over and over again.
And then below you justify that with a strawman claim that I said something I didn't say and that was my faulty logic?

DC2 & I would like to see every ECF member have a CASAA banner on their posts so new members will be more likely to join. We encourage people to learn about CASAA and join. You equate that to browbeating. I think some would call it educating and encouraging.

You stated "If the vast majority of new vapers aren't learning about CASAA it's because they don't want to." How do you come up with that "reasoning"? You have some special insight into their minds through the internet airwaves? I've gotten the following response a number of times from new members after explaining CASAA to them: "thanks for telling me about CASAA, I didn't know about them and what they do. I just joined".

I'm not against "I quit smoking banners". Many of us just believe that a CASAA banner has a more important function, if it gets even one person to join CASAA.

I questioned your "logic" in equating a "stop smoking" banner being as effective as a "CASAA banner" in getting new members to join CASAA. I didn't attack you personally. Yet you respond with these words: brow beat, harass and egocentric. Your personal attacks helps no one, especially yourself. How about we just discuss our differences on what will get more people to join CASAA and leave the personal attacks to the side.

You're worse than the telemarketers who call my house constantly. I equate that to brow beating.
Maybe you are practicing good marketing skills and that type of high pressure sales is what it takes. Maybe I'm in the minority who are extremely turned off by such tactics.
But my own egocenticism and a lot of knowledge from being an anti-telemarketer and dabbling in internet advertising has me believing those types of high pressure sales turn off a lot more people than they bring in (10:1 response rate would be huge). Those are the real statistics, if you get more than that on a regular basis even with targeted ads you get investigated for fraud. For every 1 you get you've sent 9 or more running away never to be seen again.

I come to that "reasoning" because if people don't see the call to actions they have to be trying not to see them. If people aren't seeing the threats against vaping they have to be trying to ignore them. It's not like these things are hidden around here.

I never said a quit counter was as effective as a CASAA banner at getting people to join CASAA. Claiming that someone said something they didn't say is a form of attack. This is what you said about the counter, "hey, look at me and how good I am" which is worse than "egocentric". "Brow beat" and "harass" is what you do, if you don't like that fact dial it back a few notches.

What I said about the quit counters is they can inspire others to stick with it. If everyone quits vaping there won't be anyone to join CASAA?
My main purpose for a counter is my own inspiration, if I quit vaping then I have no reason to be part of CASAA. But I've also had people say it inspired them so I threw that in there.

For me the counter is more important.
Of course my banner has nothing to do with getting people to join CASAA. I never said it did.
If you'd like to explain how you claiming I said a quit counter is doing more to bring in CASAA members is not claiming I said something I didn't say I'm all ears.
Until then stop trying to play the victim to pretend innocence. If you want what you claim are attacks to go to the side try allowing people to have their own opinions without being attacked by you.
I don't know what it is with you that won't allow you to imagine that anyone could like anything that you don't or think any other way than you do but you really need to chill out when confronted with different opinions.

IN MY OPINION the counter is more important FOR ME.
IN MY OPINION everyone having CASAA banners would simply get them ignored.
IN MY OPINION I like the taste of low watts better.
IN MY OPINION eGo batteries are the minimum size any one should go to.
Until you can come to grips with the fact that I will have my own opinions and I will fight for my right to have them we are going to continue going around.
 

Myk

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Why would you not care?? Knowing that ecigs truly do help people kick the habit. If that option was not there to help others quit.. if the attacks on vaping turned into a ban on ecigs.. You woul only care unless YOU were vaping? Not the others it may help?

Maybe I'm reading you wrong..

I think you're reading it wrong. I'd care that it's someone's rights that are being infringed, but I wouldn't care enough to stay informed or get on a soap box. I certainly wouldn't be going to my state's legislature page and searching all forms of "ecig" to keep up on any proposed laws if I wasn't vaping.

It's like I tell rich hunters who see no problem with coming in and pricing locals out of hunting by leasing up all the hunting land for more than the locals can afford. If they're no longer involved in hunting they no longer have a horse in the race to give you their voice in political matters.
 

wv2win

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"They" cannot ban nicotine in the US. The Congress itself has decreed that Tobacco production and distribution is “one of the greatest basic industries of the United States,” and has repeatedly asserted itself as having the sole authority to regulate the industry as part of its Constitutionally enumerated power under the interstate commerce clause. Congress has delegated some of that authority to FDA, but it has never (nor will it ever) delegate the power to end such an economically and politically important industry. If FDA did try to usurp that authority again (it tried in 2009), the action wouldn't survive the first day in a federal district court. FDA can't even tax nicotine--that too is a power retained solely by Congress.

What FDA can do--and probably will do--is establish standards for the manufacture, distribution, labeling and marketing of e-liquids that contain nicotine. They can also impose age limits and take steps to limit access to minors. The larger e-liquid companies already meet these standards and are prepared for such regulation.

The industry and consumers should welcome such regulation with open arms. It cuts the ANTZ crowd completely out. Our opponents are not FDA, tobacco or pharmaceutical companies. We need to target the groups that willingly spread misinformation about electronic cigarettes and counter their every move with facts. That however, takes time and money.

CASAA's "all volunteer" model is not well suited for this. They need to find a steady source of income, hire a staff and start behaving as a full grown lobbyist organization. There aren't enough e-cig users to mount a sustained, successful grassroots movement. This is not a job for amateurs.

I disagree with several of your points.

1. They can ban how nicotine is made avaliable, with the Congress' consent. The FDA can influence Congress, with half-truths and lies, that loose eliquid should be banned and that eliquid should only be available in sealed carts. If a majority in Congress agrees, then vaping as we know is dead.

2. You state that the FDA, tobacco companies and pharmaceutical companies are not the enemy but instead the ANTZ's groups. Who provides the majority of the funding for the ANTZ's groups such as ASH? - Big pharmaceutical companies!! Who does FDA upper management listen to, protect and find jobs with after leaving government? - Big pharmaceutical companies!! Who has funded and supported state legislation that would limit vaping options to sealed carts only? - tobacco companies!!

The FDA and Big Pharm would love to have vaping banned completely, but know that is less likely at this point. They will settle for vaping being so regulated and restricted that it will make it far less effective and appealing to those who vape or are thinking about making the switch. Big tobacco will support restrictions that leaves their far inferior product as the only option on the market. You cannot separate the ANTZ's groups from Big Pharm. Big Pharm funds them and pulls their strings.

So none of these groups are friends of the vaping community.

3. I would love for the vaping community to have a well funded politial arm to fight the lies and disinformation coming primarily from Big Pharm funded ANTZ's groups, as well as an ability to interact with Congress and state representatives. The problem, from my limited political experience, is that if CASAA was to acquire funding (if their was funding available) from the larger eliquid/equipment manufacturers, is that their message could be viewed as "tainted". And then there is the issue that most, if not all, of those companies are not based in the US.

If you can provide a better alternative, I'm sure many of us would like to know what other options are possible that would be more effective. I don't disagree with you that CASAA has many obsticles in their goal to protect our ability to vape as we do today. I've always thought, that if every person who vaped, in the US alone, would just donate a $1 to CASAA, every time they made a vaping purchase, CASAA's budget would increase a hundred fold. With enough money, I would think they could hire a professional lobbying consultant.

I do think that there are some vaping retailers that are large enough (Madvapes and Totally Wicked come to mind) to be able to institute incentatives for their customers to donate to CASAA. If a retailer gave me an option to make a donation to CASAA that the retailer would match, when I made a purchase, I would definitely support that retailer with my purchases over a retailer who provided the same product for less.
 
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wv2win

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.......................
IN MY OPINION the counter is more important FOR ME.
IN MY OPINION everyone having CASAA banners would simply get them ignored.
IN MY OPINION I like the taste of low watts better.
IN MY OPINION eGo batteries are the minimum size any one should go to.
Until you can come to grips with the fact that I will have my own opinions and I will fight for my right to have them we are going to continue going around.

Shouting with the "all caps" really isn't necessary. I just disagree with your opinion that having a CASAA banner turns people off from joining CASAA. I had no intention to slight you personally.
 

Coastal Cowboy

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I have no idea if this is true or not, but several years ago on ECF, a member stated that vaping hardware could not be used for substances other than eliquid due to the low heat level generated by PV's and that these other substances require much higher heat levels. If true, that would be a positive, IMO.

There's at least one online vape shop that sells "herb" flavored e-liquid.

Also, delivering the right amount of energy to atomize any alkaloid suspension is simply pushing the right voltage across the right conductor to a load with the right resistance.
 

Sm0kyBlue

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I have no idea if this is true or not, but several years ago on ECF, a member stated that vaping hardware could not be used for substances other than eliquid due to the low heat level generated by PV's and that these other substances require much higher heat levels. If true, that would be a positive, IMO.

wv.. I was scrolling thru the net last night, looking for a recipe for my Dad.. and well.. think on this.. If tobacco and tea can be used, there are others out there that can be too.. my mouth dropped open when I saw it.. :/
 

SpinDr480

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As someone that works to influence public policy against big companies (not tobacco buy the way), I find it both a good thing and a bad thing to have FDA come in and regulate certain items.

The only positive I see is that some regulation should be welcomed to distinguish the good actors for the bad. I don't know about you, but I would feel a lot more comfortable knowing that eLiquid suppliers were held to some standard that allowed us to ensure that proper chemicals were used in there juices. Granted I don't know enough about the national trade association for eCigs or eLiquid suppliers but having the industry police itself will be tough. Even if 99% of eLiquid suppliers do what's right, there will always be that 1% of suppliers that add chemicals that prove to be toxic...Of course once something happens like that, it will be the all over a 60 minutes expose that forces congress and FDA to take action. I hate to say it, but the more this gets popular the more it becomes inevitable that some standards will be put in place.

So with that said, I don't think the industry should run away from imposing standards. However, the problem with the FDA or any federal agency is the slippery slope once a product becomes regulated it then becomes even more regulated to the point that nobody can comply. This is especially true with this industry that has a lot of small entrepreneurs doing a great job at running a business. Politicians from both parties love to say they fight for small businesses, they use it on the campaign trail to sound good. However, what they end up doing is regulating a product or service to the point that the only ones that are able to comply are the BIG COMPANIES. In this case, big tobacco will be the only remaining companies left. I do think that once they enter the market, they won't try to kill it but realize the profit potential and hopefully make better products even.

With all that said, my biggest fear is to ensure we fight not only for our right to continue but to do so by ensuring products remain safe, and that small companies aren't hurt with costly and too burdensome regulation. That sounds idealistic, I know but this is a common theme for every industry that is out there. Look at restaurant owners, department stores, banking, ect..They have been all left to close up, and only the big chains can survive.
 

kristin

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The industry and consumers should welcome such regulation with open arms. It cuts the ANTZ crowd completely out. Our opponents are not FDA, tobacco or pharmaceutical companies. We need to target the groups that willingly spread misinformation about electronic cigarettes and counter their every move with facts. That however, takes time and money.

CASAA's "all volunteer" model is not well suited for this. They need to find a steady source of income, hire a staff and start behaving as a full grown lobbyist organization. There aren't enough e-cig users to mount a sustained, successful grassroots movement. This is not a job for amateurs.

One of our greatest adversaries and biggest ANTZ groups is the American Lung Association - a non-profit, voluntary health organization that has huge influence on health policies in the US. They started as a grass-roots effort, selling Christmas Seals to combat tuberculosis, a death sentence in 1907. With education efforts and growing public support, the ALA has grown into a huge, powerful and rich organization. It all started with a few dedicated amateurs.

I think you are being overly dismissive of what CASAA has accomplished and will be able to do in the future.

CASAA cannot start "behaving like a full grown lobbyist organization" until it has funding like one. CASAA started in October 2009 with a few hundred registered members, 6 hard-working, dedicated directors (the other 6 voted in were pretty much inactive by 2010), no web site, no research, no legal status, no tax status, absolutely no money and no one paying attention. Not to mention just about everything was done via the internet, because we didn't have the resources to fly people around to testify.

Fast forward 41 months later and CASAA has an active 10 member board of directors (now including a renowned epidemiologist and THR expert, 3 attorneys and a professional accountant), links to our web site from hundreds and hundreds of vendor sites and others sites, research library, nearly 100k in funds (with monthly reoccurring donations increasing every day), is a registered non-profit with 501(c)(4) IRS status, over 4,800 registered members, a legal policy director (who flies around the country testifying), directors who attend FDA hearings and tobacco control and tobacco conferences. We have the ear of some major e-cigarette and tobacco companies and tobacco control and THR experts are starting to recognize our name. They don't even TRY to lie that CASAA is an astro-turf group anymore. And in a few weeks, CASAA will be sitting across the table from the FDA, representing the best interests of smoke-free consumers. CASAA is also now actually funding research, rather than just reporting it. CASAA is very frugal with funds, because we are absolutely aware that we will need money for lobbyists and public relations experts. But, as with any young organization, we have to gain a following and raise a LOT of funds before we can become "professional."

I just had to chuckle at this, though. Just how do you expect CASAA to "find a steady source of income" and "hire a staff?" Do you think these things happen by magic? You even acknowledge in your comment that "this takes time and money," yet don't seem to think CASAA should require either to be where you want it to be at this point. Powerful rich people and big corporations and companies just throw money at young organizations that are unproven? (For the record, we do accept company donations. We just don't acknowledge them in any special way, anymore than we acknowledge individual donations. It is vital that CASAA be able to say it is independent of the industry and doesn't allow industry influence. CASAA is a CONSUMER organization that represents the interests of consumers. 99% of the time, our efforts also benefit companies that sell smoke-free alternatives, so it still behooves companies to help CASAA grow.) Anyhow, CASAA has to grow and prove itself before bigger fish notice us and they are taking notice now.

CASAA has spent the past 3 1/2 years growing and proving itself. What other organization that represents smoke-free consumers is anywhere near where CASAA is now? And for the record, CASAA never intended to be a lobbyist organization. It was built on the mission of education and getting the truth out about smoke-free alternatives and tobacco harm reduction and be a consumer voice. We assumed there would eventually be a vendor organization doing most of the lobbying to protect the existence of the products and CASAA would probably .... heads with both the government and the e-cigarette companies to make sure the market remained open and diverse for consumers. It's only because the industry has failed to come together, organize and gain the backing of the consumers and community sooner that CASAA has been forced to step up and play "lobbyists" for e-cigarette consumers and industry alike.

The industry and consumers should welcome such regulation with open arms. It cuts the ANTZ crowd completely out. Our opponents are not FDA, tobacco or pharmaceutical companies. We need to target the groups that willingly spread misinformation about electronic cigarettes and counter their every move with facts. That however, takes time and money.

As someone already pointed out, the FDA doesn't live in a vacuum and the ANTZ groups ARE the shills for Big Pharma. The FDA is HUGELY influenced by lobbyists of the ANTZ, pharmaceutical industry and industry - plus the fact that the agency itself is populated by ANTZ. Specifically, the last director. Who do you really think wrote the FSPTCA of 2009? It certainly wasn't legislators. CASAA is hoping the new FDA director, Mitch Zeller, is less an ANTZ and more reasonable. The FDA deeming regulations will give the ANTZ more power, not cut them out. People need to understand how closely twisted together these powers really are.

If people think that the FDA "standards for the manufacture, distribution, labeling and marketing of e-liquids that contain nicotine" are actually going to be reasonable and leave us with effective and affordable electronic cigarettes, they are fooling themselves and ignoring very recent history. Unless Mr. Zeller takes a completely different stance on e-cigarettes than the previous director, the FDA's attitude that e-cigarettes are an unapproved drug that needs its approval and should be banned won't have changed. It will still want them off the market unless proven "safe and effective." Since it can no longer do that by banning them as unapproved drugs, they will do that with excessive regulations and standards. Unfortunately, the FDA has shown no indication that its opinion of e-cigarettes has changed to give us any reason to hope for reasonable regulations and standards. Hopefully, CASAA representatives will be able to get a better hint of what the FDA wants when they meet with them.
 
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kristin

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As someone that works to influence public policy against big companies (not tobacco buy the way), I find it both a good thing and a bad thing to have FDA come in and regulate certain items.

CASAA could use someone with your public policy experience. Do you do volunteer work? ;)
 

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I disagree with several of your points.

1. They can ban how nicotine is made avaliable, with the Congress' consent. The FDA can influence Congress, with half-truths and lies, that loose eliquid should be banned and that eliquid should only be available in sealed carts. If a majority in Congress agrees, then vaping as we know is dead.

No, they can't. Not as long as smokeable and smokeless tobacco remain on store shelves. Nicotine is not a banned or controlled substance and Congress has shown no interest in allowing it to become so.

2. You state that the FDA, tobacco companies and pharmaceutical companies are not the enemy but instead the ANTZ's groups. Who provides the majority of the funding for the ANTZ's groups such as ASH? - Big pharmaceutical companies!! Who does FDA upper management listen to, protect and find jobs with after leaving government? - Big pharmaceutical companies!! Who has funded and supported state legislation that would limit vaping options to sealed carts only? - tobacco companies!!

Actually, ASH gets about three-fourths of its financial support from the public at large, according to their most recent IRS Form 990. They also spent less that $400,000 on lobbying activities in the U.S. and less than $200,000 on overseas grants. The "revolving door" in government agencies has been a long problem not limited to FDA and is a much more serious problem at DoD. As for tobacco companies pushing for sealed carts only... That is completely unenforceable and every legislature knows it.

3. I would love for the vaping community to have a well funded politial arm to fight the lies and disinformation coming primarily from Big Pharm funded ANTZ's groups, as well as an ability to interact with Congress and state representatives. The problem, from my limited political experience, is that if CASAA was to acquire funding (if their was funding available) from the larger eliquid/equipment manufacturers, is that their message could be viewed as "tainted". And then there is the issue that most, if not all, of those companies are not based in the US.

CASAA, like ASH, does not have to disclose who their supporters are. They only have to show that more than 1/3 of their funding comes from the general public in order to maintain their unconditional tax exempt status. And, as you point out, the equipment manufacturers are mostly overseas. While the liquid manufacturing side has a lot more US companies, it is still a cottage industry.

If you can provide a better alternative, I'm sure many of us would like to know what other options are possible that would be more effective. I don't disagree with you that CASAA has many obsticles in their goal to protect our ability to vape as we do today. I've always thought, that if every person who vaped, in the US alone, would just donate a $1 to CASAA, every time they made a vaping purchase, CASAA's budget would increase a hundred fold. With enough money, I would think they could hire a professional lobbying consultant.

I do think that there are some vaping retailers that are large enough (Madvapes and Totally Wicked come to mind) to be able to institute incentatives for their customers to donate to CASAA. If a retailer gave me an option to make a donation to CASAA that the retailer would match, when I made a purchase, I would definitely support that retailer with my purchases over a retailer who provided the same product for less.

I would do that, too.

Like I always say, I make a lousy activist. But if I were one of CASAA's volunteer directors, I'd make contact with celebrity agents and see if there's a famous pretty or handsome face with money to burn and looking for a cause to support.
 

kristin

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Like I always say, I make a lousy activist. But if I were one of CASAA's volunteer directors, I'd make contact with celebrity agents and see if there's a famous pretty or handsome face with money to burn and looking for a cause to support.

CASAA has contacted the staff of a few famous e-cigarette users, most notably Katherine Hiegel. We were turned down. Unfortunately, there are very few famous vapers who CASAA would want representing them. Charlie Sheen and Courtney Love? Um...no thanks. Most respectable celebrities are already involved in their own charities and don't care about protecting their "right to vape."
 

SpinDr480

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CASAA could use someone with your public policy experience. Do you do volunteer work? ;)

I certainly would if I could, since it is something I believe in. The problem for me is that I am currently lobbying in Western States and I don't make it D.C. more than a few times a year. I am contracted exclusively with one trade association in finance industry.

I prefer the term "advocate" since people have the wrong impression that all lobbyist's are the same. Although there is shame in having a lobbyist, we aren't all the same...It is more about "what they are lobbying for?" and "how they lobby?" Because no matter what you do, or what you enjoy there is likely a lobbyist working on behalf of you and you don't even know it.
 

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I just had to chuckle at this, though. Just how do you expect CASAA to "find a steady source of income" and "hire a staff?" Do you think these things happen by magic? You even acknowledge in your comment that "this takes time and money," yet don't seem to think CASAA should require either to be where you want it to be at this point. Powerful rich people and big corporations and companies just throw money at young organizations that are unproven? (For the record, we do accept company donations. We just don't acknowledge them in any special way, anymore than we acknowledge individual donations. It is vital that CASAA be able to say it is independent of the industry and doesn't allow industry influence. CASAA is a CONSUMER organization that represents the interests of consumers. 99% of the time, our efforts also benefit companies that sell smoke-free alternatives, so it still behooves companies to help CASAA grow.) Anyhow, CASAA has to grow and prove itself before bigger fish notice us and they are taking notice now.

Don't get me wrong. I like what you're doing and I understand how far you've come in the short time you've been around. But you still have to play catch up. You need a public face and a benefactor or three. As a 501(c)(4), you do have a little more leeway in political influence.
 

Coastal Cowboy

This aggression will not stand, man!
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Alabama Gulf Coast
www.ibleedcrimsonred.com
I prefer the term "advocate" since people have the wrong impression that all lobbyist's are the same. Although there is shame in having a lobbyist, we aren't all the same...It is more about "what they are lobbying for?" and "how they lobby?" Because no matter what you do, or what you enjoy there is likely a lobbyist working on behalf of you and you don't even know it.

Lobbying is a constitutionally protected activity under the First Amendment. I see no shame in any individual, corporation or industry exercising rights protected in the Constitution.

My take is that people only dislike lobbyists when the lobbyists in question are working on behalf of something/someone they don't like or have been brainwashed to fear. Whenever the lobbyist is working on "our side," it's all well and good.
 
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