I'll be 72 in a couple of months, and my almost 50 year old daughter already has enough "habits"
She has never smoked, so there is no way that I would suggest vaping to her.
Encourage or Discourage eCigs?
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I'll be 72 in a couple of months, and my almost 50 year old daughter already has enough "habits"
She has never smoked, so there is no way that I would suggest vaping to her.
Yes. I know what nicotine addiction feels like. I know what it's like to not be able to relax and have fun with friends and family because I'm too focused on when I'll be able to slip away and find someplace to smoke. Granted, that need isn't nearly as bad with vaping, but it's still there when I am some place that doesn't allow vaping. I know what it's like to worry about having enough juice/the right juice/attys/batteries etc., and I have read the posts on here from members who are terrified that vaping will be banned. Why would I want that for my loved one? I love vaping and I'm very, very grateful that I can replace my addiction to cigs with it, but I wouldn't want to pull someone I loved into being dependent on it.
Wouldn't need to have the discussion, just something I desire. Something I might learn from as much or more than they might learn from.
I am interested in hearing of these other problems that you cite and how harmful they actually are.
Many, I would say vast majority, that are weaned off nicotine are not violent nor severely depressed. I grant that some are. I hope those that wean themselves off of vaping nicotine are not prone to violent tendencies and severe depression, otherwise the vaping community may be up against a significant challenge if desire is to keep these from not getting banned.
I would discourage any addiction. If a friend that had never had coffee or soft drinks came to me and asked if they should try them I would tell them no, don't do it. The addiction itself may be harmless but addictions can carry other consequences, such as spending money to support their addiction. Different people handle addictions in different ways, some can walk away, like people that smoke only when they drink, others become dependent on it and that dependency could lead to other issues.
Given the position of 'discourage any addiction' why might you encourage a smoker to take up vaping? From what is being said here, I'm thinking no one responding would encourage it, and instead would discourage it. And moreover, would advocate, strongly for cold turkey method to get them away from addiction of nicotine ASAP. If you might encourage vaping as an aid to nicotine cessation, you'd also be prone to advocating that they not become dependent on vaping and instead seek to reduce vaping to 0 mg, and/or set up a plan whereby they are no longer vaping nicotine nor smoking nicotine. Anything short of this would be unethical, yes?
No clue what you're getting at or what response you're hoping to get from people.
Smokers are already addicted to nic and are using a delivery system that is known to cause cancer. Switching to vaping changes the delivery system and while still addicted to nic, eliminates the cancer. Some vapers do taper their nic levels until they can quit vaping. Others don't, but you are talking about people feeding their addiction in a less harmful way vs. getting someone addicted.
Since you are asking all the questions, I'd like to ask you one--Why are you interested? Is there someone you want to get started with vaping and you are looking for justification?
There's alot of ways to look at it, I guess.
Would I encourage a never smoker - as in take a nonsmoking/nonvaping person to a vape shop and say "You have got to try this!" - Nope.
Would I encourage a non smoker- as in taking a former smoker to a vape shop and say "I know you're struggling not to light up. This is an alternative if you can't deal with it anymore. Try this first." - Yup
Would I discourage a never smoker who is vaping? Nope - not my business.
Would I discourage my kid from vaping? - They're adults. I can inform them of why they shouldn't, but that's like them making the decision to drink at 21. It's on them. My daughter snags my pv frequently and uses it and hints that I should gift her one. I tell her "Nope. You want to do it, it's on you." As a parent, I can only do so much. But, I also won't pick up alcohol for her if she asks. Don't inconvenience me, I don't drink. Skewed way of thinking? For some, perhaps.
I don't drink. People frequently ask me to go to wine tastings, etc. Is that encouragement for me to pick up an alcohol habit? I don't see it that way. I see it as someone who is wanting to share their enjoyment of something with me. If I choose to do it, I don't expect that I'll be looked down upon. Maybe that's skewed too, but *shrug*.
We all do what we want, what we enjoy doing. I don't look for justification as to why we do something. I bought a 0 nic, new vaper some juices for Christmas. She enjoys the "habit" - it relaxes her and keeps her off anxiety pills. I bought my mother in law booze laced whipped cream and a bottle of mudslides for christmas - it relaxes her and keeps her off anxiety pills. I didn't consider that any sort of encouragement. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, but who's to say what's right?
Would I encourage a never smoker - as in take a nonsmoking/nonvaping person to a vape shop and say "You have got to try this!" - Nope.
Would I encourage a non smoker- as in taking a former smoker to a vape shop and say "I know you're struggling not to light up. This is an alternative if you can't deal with it anymore. Try this first." - Yup
Would I discourage a never smoker who is vaping? Nope - not my business.
Would I discourage my kid from vaping? - They're adults. I can inform them of why they shouldn't, but that's like them making the decision to drink at 21. It's on them. My daughter snags my pv frequently and uses it and hints that I should gift her one. I tell her "Nope. You want to do it, it's on you." As a parent, I can only do so much. But, I also won't pick up alcohol for her if she asks. Don't inconvenience me, I don't drink. Skewed way of thinking? For some, perhaps.
I don't drink. People frequently ask me to go to wine tastings, etc. Is that encouragement for me to pick up an alcohol habit? I don't see it that way. I see it as someone who is wanting to share their enjoyment of something with me. If I choose to do it, I don't expect that I'll be looked down upon. Maybe that's skewed too, but *shrug*.
We all do what we want, what we enjoy doing. I don't look for justification as to why we do something. I bought a 0 nic, new vaper some juices for Christmas. She enjoys the "habit" - it relaxes her and keeps her off anxiety pills. I bought my mother in law booze laced whipped cream and a bottle of mudslides for christmas - it relaxes her and keeps her off anxiety pills. I didn't consider that any sort of encouragement. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, but who's to say what's right?
I'm gathering that he's trying to trick us in to being hypocrites since we claim that e-cigs with nicotine are safe but wouldn't encourage them for others. Unfortunately for them that's not possible. JudeD said it best. Vaping with nicotine is a way to deal with an addiction that already exist and is very different from starting the addiction to begin with. If someone had told me when I first started smoking that I would spend tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars on my addiction and that it would control my life then I might not have started. But then again I was young and stupid and might have done it anyway.
I believe I could explain why I started this thread though the full answer would be a rather large wall of text that probably wouldn't get read by many.
So, here are some shorter responses, sound bite logic.
If someone that is non-smoker, non-vaper approached me with earnest desire to try vaping and I said no / discouraged them; then I might expect them to discourage my own use as well. I'd probably hope my patent responses to why I choose to use would work for them, but if they pushed it, I'd realize I really don't have a sound reason for using and am just exercising denial to keep on keeping on.
This thread demonstrates to me that we vapers, at least some of us, know vaping (nicotine) is inherently harmful, and/or is a bad habit, and/or is something to not do for really anyone in society. We for sure like to think it is better than smoking cigarettes, but also want to think it is the best solution around when clearly a thread like this shows cold turkey is far superior. While cold turkey might not work for everyone, it is still best method around.
Those in our society who seek to discourage anyone from vaping, including smokers, are I believe justified based on responses in this thread. As 'mere discouragement' might not work for those who are in denial around own addiction, then regulation, and perhaps even banning may be the way to go to get people off of, what even vapers consider, a harmful addiction.
I honestly didn't think when I asked the question I did in OP that I'd be the only one out on the limb saying that I would encourage non-smoker to take up vaping if that person approached me with earnest desire to try it. I currently stand by that, but do now realize I may be the only vaper who thinks like this.
So, here are some shorter responses, sound bite logic.
If someone that is non-smoker, non-vaper approached me with earnest desire to try vaping and I said no / discouraged them; then I might expect them to discourage my own use as well. I'd probably hope my patent responses to why I choose to use would work for them, but if they pushed it, I'd realize I really don't have a sound reason for using and am just exercising denial to keep on keeping on.
This thread demonstrates to me that we vapers, at least some of us, know vaping (nicotine) is inherently harmful, and/or is a bad habit, and/or is something to not do for really anyone in society. We for sure like to think it is better than smoking cigarettes, but also want to think it is the best solution around when clearly a thread like this shows cold turkey is far superior. While cold turkey might not work for everyone, it is still best method around.
Those in our society who seek to discourage anyone from vaping, including smokers, are I believe justified based on responses in this thread. As 'mere discouragement' might not work for those who are in denial around own addiction, then regulation, and perhaps even banning may be the way to go to get people off of, what even vapers consider, a harmful addiction.
I honestly didn't think when I asked the question I did in OP that I'd be the only one out on the limb saying that I would encourage non-smoker to take up vaping if that person approached me with earnest desire to try it. I currently stand by that, but do now realize I may be the only vaper who thinks like this.
Would you also encourage someone to start smoking if they approached you with earnest desire to try it?
It depends.
Given criteria in OP, and a little discussion, I might.
I'm pretty sure I already have at some point.
I'd be more likely in today's world to advocate vaping and then suggest both are okay if done in moderation, but up to them really.
The problem is that cold turkey doesn't generally work. This has a higher percentage of success by far.
When I balance all the risk/reward ratios, vaping comes out far, far higher than smoking. So high, in fact, that it wouldn't bother me if I can't cut my nic back below a certain level and had to stay there indefinitely. The risks are quite minimal.
Nicotine isn't without risks. People suffering from certain cardiac conditions absolutely shouldn't use it. It's a risk if you have arterial disease. It's not a cancer risk or a mutagen; nicotine shows no tendency for either. It's toxic, but in the amounts we use that's not a significant argument (every medication I take is toxic in large enough doses, they're therapeutic at the levels I take).
I'm not 100% comfortable inhaling PG at this concentration as often as I do, even though every study indicates that it isn't an issue. Suffice to say that I'm completely sure that just inhaling air is better for you. In this case, the discomfort comes from what we may NOT know about it, not what we do.
With cigarettes, what we know about it is awful. What we don't know about it is, of course, unknown...but unlikely to be positive.
Since cold turkey failed, every other NRT failed, Chantix and Wellbutrin failed, and everything else failed, they had a 0% chance to reduce my cancer risk. Vaping worked, and easily has a 99.9%+ risk reduction across the board. Consequently, that's where I am right now.
Would I like to eventually discontinue it? Sure. Will I? Time will tell.
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I don't know of anyone that would encourage an addiction, regardless of what the addiction was. However, encouraging an issue and discussing an issue with someone that is determined to take on the addiction are different.
To be clear, I wouldn't be encouraging the addiction by encouraging vaping.
I'm thinking, based on another discussion here on ECF where I was claiming nicotine is highly addictive, that nicotine isn't actually substantially addictive given how one member here replied to that assertion (linking this claim to Wikipedia article that is based on scientific research).
There are many people who use (allegedly) addictive substances in a moderate way.
Cold turkey does work, I can attest to it. I'm guessing I'm not the only one who can attest to it either.
If vaping works for many, I say great. Keep on doing that and I apologize in advance to those that are sensitive on these matters, that I am encouraging vaping. To those who would discourage vaping for anyone, I hope you'd advocate (strongly) that if one takes up vaping in place of smoking, that this person be strongly encouraged to go cold turkey from vaping sooner than later. Otherwise, it might be deemed 'unethical' to encourage vaping.
I'm thinking, based on another discussion here on ECF where I was claiming nicotine is highly addictive, that nicotine isn't actually substantially addictive given how one member here replied to that assertion (linking this claim to Wikipedia article that is based on scientific research).
There are many people who use (allegedly) addictive substances in a moderate way.
Cold turkey does work, I can attest to it. I'm guessing I'm not the only one who can attest to it either.
If vaping works for many, I say great. Keep on doing that and I apologize in advance to those that are sensitive on these matters, that I am encouraging vaping. To those who would discourage vaping for anyone, I hope you'd advocate (strongly) that if one takes up vaping in place of smoking, that this person be strongly encouraged to go cold turkey from vaping sooner than later. Otherwise, it might be deemed 'unethical' to encourage vaping.
vaping as far as i know is not inherently harmful, nor is nicotine. Well not to a level i consider harmful. Let me explain what i mean by that...
Smoking would have killed me if i continued. guranteed 100% your toast, family history of cancer and all... Now the withdrawls i have personally expirenced from quitting smoking with other methods...
Downsides:
I became voilent(nearly got fired from a job)
i became severely depressed
i had constant headaches
I ate more, and thuis gained considerable weight(possibly due to both depression and eating)
the upsides:
i could smell
taste
walk up stairs without becoming short of breath
it made my wife happy(biggest reason honestly)
my house did not smell
i did not smell
my curtains could be washed once a year instead of once a month.
my white painted walls will stay white.
now we move on to the reasons to vape.
i get nicotine in a considerably less harmful method, that in all likely hood will NOT kill me. I no longer have a constant urge to smoke, and even when i do, i vape.
The reason any of us got into using a pv is simple...its a risk vs benefit analasys of cigarettes vs PV's. PV's are safer than cigarettes, simple as that. Would you not want to continue something you enjoyed doing in a safer manner? lets use the parachute example. I was in the 82nd airborne for nearly 6 years. I have jumped out of airplanes and helicopters over 140 times. it was one of the most enjoyable things i have ever done in my life. It also ended my military career when i injured both knees. If there was a safer method i would have taken it. The military is constantly looking for safer ways to make it's airborne divisions work. So based on that example if you were given the choice of a parachute and one rig did not have a reserve what would you take? I mean parachuting is fairly safe, but would you not want the reserve just in case? Why would you want it ? because its safer right ?
cigarettes will kill you, vaping is not likely to as far as anyone knows. unless of course they are vaping at 1.21 jiggawatts!
if i were to do a risk analysis on someone who wanted to vape and had NEVER smoked in their life..it would be easy. You have no risk now, but you want to add the possibility of risk ..why? There is no conceivable reason a NON SMOKER should ever vape, even 0mg. The only reason they might want to is to have fun with the device, or look cool with their friends. But honestly if they have never had a desire to smoke there is no point. They would honestly be better off smoking this one plant i heard smells really good.
oh and if you want to know what "other" things can happen with nicotine..
Let me google that for you
you will find both ends of the spectrum via that link. Have fun!
Smoking would have killed me if i continued. guranteed 100% your toast, family history of cancer and all... Now the withdrawls i have personally expirenced from quitting smoking with other methods...
Downsides:
I became voilent(nearly got fired from a job)
i became severely depressed
i had constant headaches
I ate more, and thuis gained considerable weight(possibly due to both depression and eating)
the upsides:
i could smell
taste
walk up stairs without becoming short of breath
it made my wife happy(biggest reason honestly)
my house did not smell
i did not smell
my curtains could be washed once a year instead of once a month.
my white painted walls will stay white.
now we move on to the reasons to vape.
i get nicotine in a considerably less harmful method, that in all likely hood will NOT kill me. I no longer have a constant urge to smoke, and even when i do, i vape.
The reason any of us got into using a pv is simple...its a risk vs benefit analasys of cigarettes vs PV's. PV's are safer than cigarettes, simple as that. Would you not want to continue something you enjoyed doing in a safer manner? lets use the parachute example. I was in the 82nd airborne for nearly 6 years. I have jumped out of airplanes and helicopters over 140 times. it was one of the most enjoyable things i have ever done in my life. It also ended my military career when i injured both knees. If there was a safer method i would have taken it. The military is constantly looking for safer ways to make it's airborne divisions work. So based on that example if you were given the choice of a parachute and one rig did not have a reserve what would you take? I mean parachuting is fairly safe, but would you not want the reserve just in case? Why would you want it ? because its safer right ?
cigarettes will kill you, vaping is not likely to as far as anyone knows. unless of course they are vaping at 1.21 jiggawatts!
if i were to do a risk analysis on someone who wanted to vape and had NEVER smoked in their life..it would be easy. You have no risk now, but you want to add the possibility of risk ..why? There is no conceivable reason a NON SMOKER should ever vape, even 0mg. The only reason they might want to is to have fun with the device, or look cool with their friends. But honestly if they have never had a desire to smoke there is no point. They would honestly be better off smoking this one plant i heard smells really good.
oh and if you want to know what "other" things can happen with nicotine..
Let me google that for you
you will find both ends of the spectrum via that link. Have fun!
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