Evolv Dna 20 cloned 1:1 aswell as the hana mod

[havok333]

So why aren't you doing it?

Seriously, make a nice dna-30 mod. The dna only costs $35 in batches of 100. The rest of the stuff in a mod, maybe another $40, so $75 cost. If you sold it for $150 you'd be doubling your cost of materials, and you'd still have the least expensive dna mod on the market.

Make 1000 of 'em and you've made $75k, right?

I just wish I had the ability to make simple things from wood. Electronics and metal are way outta my league which is why I don't mind paying those that can create quality stuff.

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[bzmotoninja83]

It's two completely different market segments anyway. The guy buying the $27 clone was never going to but the $200 original.

I beg to differ. I bought a lavatube before I tried the Provari stuff. Wanted to see if it was mildly worth the hype. I got it knowing that if I liked it, the Provari would be more solid and reliable.I wont get a dna clone because, well, I just wont.

For other stuff like mechanicals, I will never invest huge amounts of $$ into a metal battery holder with a switch.

 

[Mrtrucker40108]

Beg to differ all you like

 

[Mrtrucker40108]

Try it this way if it offends your sensibility less.

Mustang/Ferrari. Two different markets. 99.9999999999999% of Mustang owners are not going to buy a Ferrari. Does that mean there's not the statistical outlier? No, but just because the statistical outlier exists in no way takes from the fact that they are two seperate markets aimed at two completely different consumers.

 

[graffiti]

You are massively underestimating how much labor factors into the equation.

And I think you're massively overestimating cost of materials. Most of these mods aren't made in the US. The boxes for DNAs are generally Chinese and a lot of the high end mechs are from the Philippines.

You can not tell me that a mech that costs $200 is being cloned for $40 and there isn't a minimum of $100 profit in it. There is no way that there's that much of a materials cost difference, even when you account for the differences in labor costs between the Philippines and China.

 

[DPLongo22]

Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and has absolutely nothing to do with the cost of production.

The formula remains simple; like it? Buy it! Don't like it? Pass it by.

A free economy is a truly marvelous thing.

 

[graffiti]

Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and has absolutely nothing to do with the cost of production.

The formula remains simple; like it? Buy it! Don't like it? Pass it by.

A free economy is a truly marvelous thing.

That's not the point.

The true beauty of a free economy is that if the original manufacturer drags his or her feet too long, they're going to get undercut by somebody who is willing to invest in the production.

The only people Hana will have to blame for this is either themselves or maybe Evolv, depending on who is holding up the manufacturing process.

 

[AnsonJames]

Would be great to hear from one of the big makers like Atmomixani to know if they have felt any loss of business due to clones...

IMO they always seem sold out and they get exposure... they seem to push out a lot of their bonus parts as well.

There is a popular study used at collages and uni's that shows how HP and IBM massively benefited from Xerox ripping them off. I may of got the company names mixed up but the point stands.

v1ck.

I have it on very good authority that Atmomixani isn't in the least bit bothered by clones - he realizes that the folks that buy clones generally aren't the sort of folks that pay top Dollar for an original anyway.

From what I've been told he's seen an increase in business since the counterfeits started to appear.

 

[AnsonJames]

........ said there is a reason for this chip last night on mod envy but wouldnt reveal the answer because he couldnt he also said he wouldnt use the hana version because hes friends with him but said they shouldnt have put the hana logo because you cant copyright a box but they have trademarked the logo and hes pretty sure if any us vendor stocks them they could face some legal trouble!

These will probably be okay if that's the problem;

 

[DPLongo22]

That's not the point.

The true beauty of a free economy is that if the original manufacturer drags his or her feet too long, they're going to get undercut by somebody who is willing to invest in the production.

The only people Hana will have to blame for this is either themselves or maybe Evolv, depending on who is holding up the manufacturing process.

I believe that is EXACTLY the point. Then buy the one you want. Either wait for the real thing, or jump on the alternative. Again, free market...

But analyzing the cost of production is the concern of the manufacturers, not consumers. We simply either buy or we don't.

When I purchased every mod I own (including the two Hana Modz), they were in stock and shipped immediately. It's the only way I'd ever buy something. Especially today, with all the options out there.

Admittedly I am on a list for a new one coming out of Australia, but no money changes hands until it's ready to ship. Being nothing more than another name on a list brings absolutely zero stress.

 

[KurrptSenate]

I have 3 hana modz and I'm interested in this clone as well

 

[Steakjuice]

Figured it was only a matter of time. The Hana Modz clone won't be available until August 2014 though, according to vendor listings. At $50-$100 per unit, I'm going to guess they'll be just south of $100 on FastTech once they hit the market.

 

[dr g]

And I think you're massively overestimating cost of materials. Most of these mods aren't made in the US. The boxes for DNAs are generally Chinese and a lot of the high end mechs are from the Philippines.

You can not tell me that a mech that costs $200 is being cloned for $40 and there isn't a minimum of $100 profit in it. There is no way that there's that much of a materials cost difference, even when you account for the differences in labor costs between the Philippines and China.

I assure you I'm not overestimating or underestimating anything. But you should know that a producing a mech is a very different thing from producing a regulated mod.

That's not the point.

The true beauty of a free economy is that if the original manufacturer drags his or her feet too long, they're going to get undercut by somebody who is willing to invest in the production.

The only people Hana will have to blame for this is either themselves or maybe Evolv, depending on who is holding up the manufacturing process.

This concept breaks down when you have two different markets competing. China is a very different market from the west, they have far lower labor costs, government subsidies, few regulations (e.g. IP rights, environmental protections), etc. When China gets involved, it distorts western markets. This is something we will probably always have to deal with in this industry, however it's important to understand it and not misrepresent it.

No one is holding up the manufacturing process.

 

[SavePaperVapor]

Figured it was only a matter of time. The Hana Modz clone won't be available until August 2014 though, according to vendor listings. At $50-$100 per unit, I'm going to guess they'll be just south of $100 on FastTech once they hit the market.

Wrong. Early May they start shipping. 73 dollars, shipped.

 

[Mrtrucker40108]

And a guy has pre-orders on ebay for $195. :eyeroll:

 

[Mrtrucker40108]

Spam much?

 

[vap0r88]

And that itself is the problem. If you have ever studied economics this is a pretty basic issue, supply and demand.

Thousands of people want them but don't want to pay 200+ each so the American manufacturers only make hundreds at that price, but that leaves a market gap. The Chinese see that market gap, they KNOW there is a demand but at a lower price point so they make a substitute product (clone) and sell it for a quarter of the real products price.

If people were REALLY worried about buying domestic products, the manufacturers themselves would drop the price. It doesn't cost 200-500 to make these PVs, nor is the opportunity cost of making each one at that point, which the Chinese have demonstrated. The American makers are simply charging more based on the fact that SOME people will pay the price to have it, so if they sell 200 at $200 each, that's $40,000 revenue. If the Chinese sell 1000 or 10000 at $40 each that's $40,000-$400,000 revenue.

See the difference? American makers need to lower their prices for the chance to get a bigger piece of the pie but to do that they need to figure out where to get the capital to expand their production capacities.

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do you realize there's only two guys actually making the real hanamodz? kind of blows your theories out of the water. and who in their right mind is going to invest big into a factory environment to pump them out when 'any day' someone in China is going to eventually clone. the original makers can put their price at $250 because it takes them time and they need to make profit before said items are cloned and they lose everything and have enough profit to invent a more enhanced model.

 

[vap0r88]

R&D, build time, employee pay, overhead such as rent and electricity, materials, advertisement (they don't do this one), testing, profit.

For 250 dollars I can buy this television set..

Now while I will agree that there's a difference between the two companies... I have to say, making a flat screen TV is without a doubt going to be more expensive then making a box that holds a battery and makes a coil hot.

You're right though, people like you really don't seem to know how cheap it can end up being to make something like a hana box mod, especially once you get a little assembly line going. R&D, advertisement, and testing are costs spread out over the length of time the product is sold. The rest is pretty minimal when you compare the amount they make on one unit, and how long it would take to actually build one unit.

Basically you're saying that Hana is either grossly incompetent as far as their business practices and are letting their expenses cut far into their profit. Or they are raking people over coals with an incredible profit on a metal box with someone else's technology inside.

there's only two guys making the boxes at hanamodz and they are at the mercy of evolve for DNA30 stock.

 

[dylanlg2]

So how hard would it be for hana to patent their design? After making all of this money on their mods, obviously they have several options.. get a patent, or increase production, or stay small and let the chinese take over their mod completely... I see them doing the latter..

I am kindof on the fence about this issue.. on one hand I applaud the chinese for giving us consumers more options and not making 200% profit margin off every single product they sell.. they seem to understand business much better (high quantity, decent quality, small profit margin = big $)

On the other hand, well... .... where did that other hand go?

 

[Steakjuice]

Wrong. Early May they start shipping. 73 dollars, shipped.

I hope they're wrong! And if FT sells these for $73 or less, I'm buying one blind the moment they're available. Then I'm going to buy something to get rid of that H.

So how hard would it be for hana to patent their design? After making all of this money on their mods, obviously they have several options.. get a patent, or increase production, or stay small and let the chinese take over their mod completely... I see them doing the latter..

I am kindof on the fence about this issue.. on one hand I applaud the chinese for giving us consumers more options and not making 200% profit margin off every single product they sell.. they seem to understand business much better (high quantity, decent quality, small profit margin = big $)

On the other hand, well... .... where did that other hand go?

I don't know that patents apply internationally and even if they do, I'm not sure how easy it is to enforce them.