Evolv Dna 20 cloned 1:1 aswell as the hana mod

[blueGrassTubb]

I'm not sure the Chinese chip is a "clone" so much as it's a chip that does many of the same things. It's like calling a Toyota Tundra a "clone" of the Ford F150.

To say that this chip is somehow inspired by the dna chips would be accurate, but a clone would not be.

 

[K_Tech]

I'm not sure the Chinese chip is a "clone" so much as it's a chip that does many of the same things. It's like calling a Toyota Tundra a "clone" of the Ford F150.

To say that this chip is somehow inspired by the dna chips would be accurate, but a clone would not be.

Lol. I wouldn't be surprised if the Chinese offerings said "DNAxx" on bootup.

Only misspelled.

 

[chainvapor]

I love when people try to defend the price gauging from "high end" manufacturers. Even in limited run, these things have massive profit margins. These aren't extremely precise fit pieces, nor are they particularly complex.
For the perfect example, look at Super T Manufactoring. Their build quality is among the best in the business and all their pieces are cheaper then most hype high end mods. Even at that price, probably 75% of the price is profit. And they don't play the "out of stock" game, keeping supply purposefully down to drive prices up.

I refuse to buy authentics from companies that do business like that. I'll own a precise though, after I get a couple dozen mods in line before it

You obviously no nothing about manufacturing in a precision machine shop. Our shop charges a minimum of $75 per hour to cover machine time, wages, and overhead. Remember, the precision machines these "high end" mods are made on are not tonka toys, these are "state of the art" Computer Controlled Machines. My company just bought a new CNC Lathe for $130,000 and it was a cheap one. So when you are crying about profit margins and price gouging, think about buying 1 machine that costs as much as a house and tell me what you would charge for something made on that machine. Lets also not forget the added cost on some mods of silver plating, Anodizing, or other coatings. Also, each and every mod has at least 8 or 9 different pieces that have to be made and all fit together to make a working mod.

Sorry for the rant, but I have worked in manufacturing for over 20 years and I get a little offended by people pretending it's "no big deal" to design and create a mod or that they are WAY overpriced. Some of them are overpriced a little, but not as much as most would think.

CV

P.S. And by the way, Super T made my friend wait around 6 months for his ELA that was promised in 6 weeks. I wound never be able to wait that long AFTER spending my money so I will stay away from Super T although their mods are very well built!

 

[suspectK]

So... not to derail this thread or anything... does anyone have one yet?

37, ph0n3 h0m3.

 

[DPLongo22]

So... not to derail this thread or anything... does anyone have one yet?

37, ph0n3 h0m3.

A cloned one? Nope.

 

[blueGrassTubb]

A cloned one? Nope.

I'm using the new SX200 Chinese chips in my Sigelei 20W. Busardo gave it the run down and it measured virtually identically to the DNA20 in virtually every way. It has a flat, straight DC current (as opposed to PWM output signals that are all over the place) and is giving what it says within the same very low margin of error as the DNA20. It gives DNA20 performance at a much lower price point. I don't have a DNA device, but I can say it's the smoothest yet most robust vape I've had. I like the display better than the DNA chips.


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[vewdew]

I'm using the new SX200 Chinese chips in my Sigelei 20W. Busardo gave it the run down and it measured virtually identically to the DNA20 in virtually every way. It has a flat, straight DC current (as opposed to PWM output signals that are all over the place) and is giving what it says within the same very low margin of error as the DNA20. It gives DNA20 performance at a much lower price point. I don't have a DNA device, but I can say it's the smoothest yet most robust vape I've had. I like the display better than the DNA chips.


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I am also using the Sigelei 20w and a DNA30 and call me paranoid but I believe I get better results with my DNA30, but like I said maybe I am just being paranoid about the DNA.

 

[graffiti]

You obviously no nothing about manufacturing in a precision machine shop. Our shop charges a minimum of $75 per hour to cover machine time, wages, and overhead. Remember, the precision machines these "high end" mods are made on are not tonka toys, these are "state of the art" Computer Controlled Machines. My company just bought a new CNC Lathe for $130,000 and it was a cheap one.

Given all of this, wouldn't it make sense to have your machines running at capacity as much as possible instead of doing a super limited run? I mean, let's say you're making a mod that retails for $200 and costs $125 to make. Wouldn't it make more sense to produce 5000 of them and sell them for $175 than making 200 of them and selling them for $200?

 

[havok333]

Given all of this, wouldn't it make sense to have your machines running at capacity as much as possible instead of doing a super limited run? I mean, let's say you're making a mod that retails for $200 and costs $125 to make. Wouldn't it make more sense to produce 5000 of them and sell them for $175 than making 200 of them and selling them for $200?

I agree completely, makes no sense to me to have such limited runs of popular items. Greases the wheels of eBay I guess.

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[brekec88]

Look at how Chinese batteries and ego's fail. Now put a regulated 30 w Chinese device in your hands...near your face...no thank you!

 

[Kang]

I have never bought a clone and at the same time think nothing bad of people that do.. That said… I can't wait to purchase this clone lol. I've never owned a VV/VW device and I didn't want to shell out $250 on a piece I wasn't sure I would love. If this thing stands up to the hype that the original has, I'll probably buy a genuine one. This will be the classic "buy a clone to know if you should buy a real one" situation. I can't wait!

 

[blueGrassTubb]

I agree completely, makes no sense to me to have such limited runs of popular items. Greases the wheels of eBay I guess.

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In order to have items manufactured, one needs to have money to pay for said manufacturing. I'd bet that most of the small MOD makers have small run sizes not to artificially constrain supply in order to keep demand high or "grease the wheels of eBay" but because they can't afford to pay the machine shop the vast difference between an independent maker shelling out $875k (if we're to take your example of 5k units at $175 per unit) and shelling out $40k (your example of 200 units at $200 per unit) for up front manufacturing costs.

It's a matter of economics, not shady business practices.

 

[blueGrassTubb]

I have never bought a clone and at the same time think nothing bad of people that do.. That said… I can't wait to purchase this clone lol. I've never owned a VV/VW device and I didn't want to shell out $250 on a piece I wasn't sure I would love. If this thing stands up to the hype that the original has, I'll probably buy a genuine one. This will be the classic "buy a clone to know if you should buy a real one" situation. I can't wait!

These Chinese chips are not "clones." They perform similar tasks, but aren't the same chip. As I mentioned before, calling the Chinese chips a clone of the Evolv chips is like calling the Toyota Tundra a clone of the Ford F150. They're in the same class, but aren't the same thing. Surely there's room in any market space for two like products. We don't call the Sienna a clone of the Caravan, why call the SXxxx Chinese chips a clone of DNAxx?

And you can rest assured that it works well. Every bit as good as the Evolv chip. The measurements bear it out (and I can attest to it providing a supremely smooth vape). The only real question left is how durable the software and the MODs that use this technology are. When you get your VW MOD with this chip installed, you're getting a good piece of gear (so long as the initial reports and reviews hold up over time, which only time will be able to tell).

 

[havok333]

In order to have items manufactured, one needs to have money to pay for said manufacturing. I'd bet that most of the small MOD makers have small run sizes not to artificially constrain supply in order to keep demand high or "grease the wheels of eBay" but because they can't afford to pay the machine shop the vast difference between an independent maker shelling out $875k (if we're to take your example of 5k units at $175 per unit) and shelling out $40k (your example of 200 units at $200 per unit) for up front manufacturing costs.

It's a matter of economics, not shady business practices.

But, as soon as one wildly popular batch has sold/ shipped wouldn't you be eager to get another batch started? I just don't see why any company would choose to stop producing anything that sells out as soon as it comes off the assembly line.

Your idea of upfront costs does make sense though.

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[graffiti]

In order to have items manufactured, one needs to have money to pay for said manufacturing. I'd bet that most of the small MOD makers have small run sizes not to artificially constrain supply in order to keep demand high or "grease the wheels of eBay" but because they can't afford to pay the machine shop the vast difference between an independent maker shelling out $875k (if we're to take your example of 5k units at $175 per unit) and shelling out $40k (your example of 200 units at $200 per unit) for up front manufacturing costs.

It's a matter of economics, not shady business practices.

That makes no sense.

So you shell out the $25k for the 200. (I actually said $125, so I'll use that number.) You sell the 200 for $200 each, giving you $40k.

You take $5k to live on and invest the remaining $35k into manufacturing 280 units, which in turn net $56k. Which you take $5k from and invest the remaining $51k into 410 units. All of a sudden there's a damned good chance you're going to make a ton of money on one of these turns.

Here's the problem. Everyone knows your product isn't worth $200. Materials and labor aren't that expensive, in the grand scheme of things. Once the tooling is paid for, the cost per unit is more like $50. You reach market saturation very quickly at the $200 price point. If you start dropping your prices, people who spent $200 are going to be ...... you ripped them off (even though the first few hundred did, in fact, cost you $125 because of the tooling costs). You lose face in the community and nobody buys your new products because they think you're a swindler.

So what you do is you keep production artificially low so that you can make money on your next mod and keep people interested.

 

[chainvapor]

Given all of this, wouldn't it make sense to have your machines running at capacity as much as possible instead of doing a super limited run? I mean, let's say you're making a mod that retails for $200 and costs $125 to make. Wouldn't it make more sense to produce 5000 of them and sell them for $175 than making 200 of them and selling them for $200?

I agree 100% but most companies are already running with skeleton crews due to the crappy economy, so when the work load goes up we can barely keep up with our regular customers, let alone make 5000 mods. As far as I know, not one of the american mods made to date is being made in a exclusively "mod building shop". They are being made in shops like mine. But I agree with you 100% that it would be better if they did a long run and made 5000 instead of 100 of them. The other problem you run into, is they want to keep their profit margin high, if you flood the market with a nice mod, they are not worth as much to people. Limited edition mods will always be worth more, keeping profit margins high. I don't like it, but it is business 101.

CV

 

[chainvapor]

In order to have items manufactured, one needs to have money to pay for said manufacturing. I'd bet that most of the small MOD makers have small run sizes not to artificially constrain supply in order to keep demand high or "grease the wheels of eBay" but because they can't afford to pay the machine shop the vast difference between an independent maker shelling out $875k (if we're to take your example of 5k units at $175 per unit) and shelling out $40k (your example of 200 units at $200 per unit) for up front manufacturing costs.

It's a matter of economics, not shady business practices.

Never thought of that but you a right on point with this. I agree 100%. Coming up with the cash for a large run would be extremely difficult for the average mod buyer/seller. Probably most would need a loan just for the 200 piece run!!

CV

 

[havok333]

Yes, it seems that after the first run is when you could start turning a good profit, and be able to fund future, larger, more profitable runs. I don't even mind paying over $200 for really nice equipment. A few cartons of smokes could cost that, and you'd have nothing afterwards to show for it except butts.

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[dr g]

That makes no sense.

So you shell out the $25k for the 200. (I actually said $125, so I'll use that number.) You sell the 200 for $200 each, giving you $40k.

You take $5k to live on and invest the remaining $35k into manufacturing 280 units, which in turn net $56k. Which you take $5k from and invest the remaining $51k into 410 units. All of a sudden there's a damned good chance you're going to make a ton of money on one of these turns.

Here's the problem. Everyone knows your product isn't worth $200. Materials and labor aren't that expensive, in the grand scheme of things. Once the tooling is paid for, the cost per unit is more like $50. You reach market saturation very quickly at the $200 price point. If you start dropping your prices, people who spent $200 are going to be ...... you ripped them off (even though the first few hundred did, in fact, cost you $125 because of the tooling costs). You lose face in the community and nobody buys your new products because they think you're a swindler.

So what you do is you keep production artificially low so that you can make money on your next mod and keep people interested.

You are massively underestimating how much labor factors into the equation.

These Chinese chips are not "clones." They perform similar tasks, but aren't the same chip. As I mentioned before, calling the Chinese chips a clone of the Evolv chips is like calling the Toyota Tundra a clone of the Ford F150. They're in the same class, but aren't the same thing. Surely there's room in any market space for two like products. We don't call the Sienna a clone of the Caravan, why call the SXxxx Chinese chips a clone of DNAxx?

And you can rest assured that it works well. Every bit as good as the Evolv chip. The measurements bear it out (and I can attest to it providing a supremely smooth vape). The only real question left is how durable the software and the MODs that use this technology are. When you get your VW MOD with this chip installed, you're getting a good piece of gear (so long as the initial reports and reviews hold up over time, which only time will be able to tell).

When you consider that the cost to maker is probably only $20 difference between the chips -- generously -- you start to see why the simple fact of a China chip being made means very little.

 

[Rossum]

Yes, it seems that after the first run is when you could start turning a good profit, and be able to fund future, larger, more profitable runs.

So why aren't you doing it?

Seriously, make a nice DNA-30 mod. The DNA only costs $35 in batches of 100. The rest of the stuff in a mod, maybe another $40, so $75 cost. If you sold it for $150 you'd be doubling your cost of materials, and you'd still have the least expensive DNA mod on the market.

Make 1000 of 'em and you've made $75k, right?