Evolv Technology Owners Discussion Thread

[Rossum]

"Regular vaping" is what normal, sane people do; using their PV in a manner similar to an actual combustible tobacco product. I don't know very many people who did direct lung inhales with combustible tobacco products, although way back when, I did know people who did it with other combustibles.

 

[mikepetro]

My latest Blog Post:

DNA40 – The New Paradigm

Those of you who may have been following my writings probably remember me saying, several times, that resistance just isn’t as important as it used to be. I have been pondering that and trying to figure out a way to explain it better. Then it dawned on me, with this new technology there really is a whole new Paradigm regarding coil optimization.

Brandon kept saying during the beta that temperature should be adjusted to your particular juice, and that wattage equated to vape volume. I finally realized he was right but only if you have adequate juice delivery.

The new paradigm is that it is now all about coil surface area and juice delivery.

(For the sake of this discussion lets assume I have set the DNA at 420 degrees and 40w.)

Lets take Coil Surface Area first.
Since the DNA now controls by temperature, and achieves that temperature regardless of the resistance of the coil (within its specified range) then, assuming you have adequate juice delivery, more coil surface area will equal more vape! The coil resistance is an element, but it is only the “result” of the surface area, the surface area is what will drive the volume of vape.

• Lets say you have a coil that is 5 wraps around a 2mm mandrel and you have a wick that can keep the coil saturated. You fire the DNA and the wattage starts out 40w until it hits 420 degrees a split second later, then the DNA throttles back the wattage to maintain the 420. At this point the wattage starts to hover around 9-13 watts and maintains that for the duration of your hit.

• Now, take that same setup but do 7 wraps instead of 5, thus increasing the surface area by about 29%. Those 7 coils are now being maintained at 420 degrees, and DNA is settling at 12-15 watts to maintain it. Assuming you still kept the coil saturated with juice, you now have 29% more heated surface area, all of it at the same 420 degrees, consequently you are vaporizing more juice.

The theoretical limit would be when you have enough saturated surface area to barley maintain the 420 degrees with the DNA putting out a continuous 40 watts. This is where your juice delivery system will come into play.

Now lets talk about Juice Delivery.

Remember, the DNA now controls by temperature, and the amount of juice presented to your coil has a direct effect on that temperature. In other words, more juice has a cooling effect which the DNA will compensate for with more wattage. Less juice and your coil will get hotter quicker and the DNA will compensate by putting out less wattage. Hence the benefit of no dry hits.

I was observing a coil I made on a S.O.D. dripper. When I first dripped the outside surface (not touching the wick) of the coil would remain wet. This told me the “coil” was fully saturated. As I fired it got to the point where the wick was still wet but the outside of the coil was dry, and as a consequence there was less vapor. This was also associated by a reduction in wattage by the DNA. When I refilled the S.O.D. the wattage went back up again and the coil was wet again.

• So, for a given coil, you will maximize your vapor if you can keep the coil saturated.
• If your juice delivery cant keep the coil saturated the DNA will just throttle back. It wont do any good to double your coil surface area if your juice delivery cant keep up.
• I honestly believe we will find that juice delivery systems will become our next bottleneck. We can easily play with wire gauges and number of wraps (twisted wire, double coils etc) to maximum surface area, but keeping that coil WET as we throw large surface areas at it will be the challenge. New wick materials, or maybe even revisiting some old ones, and innovative tanks that can keep up with the heat load of various surface areas, without flooding, will be the next area we need to focus on.

The moral of this story is: Dont worry about resistance, concentrate on tweaking your surface area to maximize your juice delivery system instead.

 

[KFarsalinos]

You think lung inhaling is different from what "normal" vapers do?

What is "regular vaping"?

It is a different pattern. I am not characterizing it as normal or abnormal, it is just different. You need different experimental settings to evaluate direct lung inhalation. The puff duration, puff volume, even consumption per puff are extremely different.

 

[folkphys]

It is a different pattern. I am not characterizing it as normal or abnormal, it is just different. You need different experimental settings to evaluate direct lung inhalation. The puff duration, puff volume, even consumption per puff are extremely different.

Plus: The only way I am able to direct lung inhale is by partially opening my mouth, breaking its seal on the drip tip, and thus drawing in a measure of ambient air in addition to my PV's tasty hot squirting vapor.

 

[dr g]

"Regular vaping" is what normal, sane people do; using their PV in a manner similar to an actual combustible tobacco product. I don't know very many people who did direct lung inhales with combustible tobacco products, although way back when, I did know people who did it with other combustibles.

Not very scientific ... most vapers learn fairly quickly that vaping isn't like smoking. Any topic I've ever seen on lung inhale vs mouth-to-lung inhale breaks toward lung inhale.

It is a different pattern. I am not characterizing it as normal or abnormal, it is just different. You need different experimental settings to evaluate direct lung inhalation. The puff duration, puff volume, even consumption per puff are extremely different.

There are as many vaping "patterns" are there are vapers. Your assumptions are mostly inline with 1st and early/low 2nd generation products. The market is moving away from that.

If I didn't know better I'd say your function in this thread was to pooh-pooh.

 

[Coldrake]

My latest Blog Post:

Thanks again Mike. Your blogs on the Evolve DNA 40 have become invaluable to those of us trying to understand how this all works. It really is a new way of doing and looking at things. I know myself and I'm sure many others will be sending people who have questions about the DNA 40 to your blogs.

Cheers right mate!

 

[Katya]

My latest Blog Post:

There's no such thing as a free lunch, is there?

So now, I guess, we'll need new heads and new coils builds.

Thanks, Mike!

 

[mikepetro]

There's no such thing as a free lunch, is there?

So now, I guess, we'll need new heads and new coils builds.

Thanks, Mike!

New coils, yes if you want to use the Temp Protection. New attys, no, it works in every existing rebuildable I have tried so far.

The main points I was trying to get across are dont worry too much about your resistance and make sure your wicking can supply a lot of juice, That is, if you are trying to optimize and maximize your build. If you your needs arent great, then it dooenst matter so much.

 

[Katya]

New coils, yes if you want to use the Temp Protection. New attys, no, it works in every existing rebuildable I have tried so far.

The main points I was trying to get across are dont worry too much about your resistance and make sure your wicking can supply a lot of juice, That is, if you are trying to optimize and maximize your build. If you your needs are great, then it dooenst matter so much.

So which RBAs (I'm assuming you're using RBAs) have you tried so far?

 

[mikepetro]

So which RBAs (I'm assuming you're using RBAs) have you tried so far?

Taifun, both as a tank, and with the dripper attachment
Kayfun
R91
S.O.D. Dripper
GKMF Genesis
G22 Mini Genesis

 

[Katya]

Taifun, both as a tank, and with the dripper attachment
Kayfun
R91
S.O.D. Dripper
GKMF Genesis
G22 Mini Genesis

No kidding...

You don't fool around, do you, Mike?

 

[mikepetro]

No kidding...

You don't fool around, do you, Mike?

They were all I had worth vaping.

The genies couldnt keep up very well.....

 

[mikepetro]

Strange, I just saw the email notification for your post and it said:

......You don't fool around, do you, Mike? Do you have a favorite?

But I didnt see the "my favorite" part in your post above.

My favorite is the Taifun, of course it was my favorite before as well.

What really surprised me, was that now the two drippers are a VERY close second choice. Actually the hit on them is slightly better, but the PITA of constantly dripping juice into them knocks them down a notch. I think the hit on them is better because the coil (not just the wick) gets fully saturated.

What was so surprising is that as long as I have been vaping I have never warmed up to drippers, and I have tried dozens. The PITA factor of refilling, but more so the inevitable (and totally unacceptable) dry hit soured me on them. With this new board the dry hit issue completely goes away and I was able to allow myself to actually give them a chance and enjoy them. Refilling is still a PITA, but I have high hopes once get a Gdeal bottom feeder built up with this new board, as the BF concept could/should eliminate the PITA factor.

 

[finagle69]

Strange, I just saw the email notification for your post and it said:

But I didnt see the "my favorite" part in your post above.

My favorite is the Taifun, of course it was my favorite before as well.

What really surprised me, was that now the two drippers are a VERY close second choice. Actually the hit on them is slightly better, but the PITA of constantly dripping juice into them knocks them down a notch. I think the hit on them is better because the coil (not just the wick) gets fully saturated.

What was so surprising is that as long as I have been vaping I have never warmed up to drippers, and I have tried dozens. The PITA factor of refilling, but more so the inevitable (and totally unacceptable) dry hit soured me on them. With this new board the dry hit issue completely goes away and I was able to allow myself to actually give them a chance and enjoy them. Refilling is still a PITA, but I have high hopes once get a Gdeal bottom feeder built up with this new board, as the BF concept could/should eliminate the PITA factor.

Because so many (myself included) own kayfuns, can you share your thoughts/experience with them on the 40?

 

[mikepetro]

Because so many (myself included) own kayfuns, can you share your thoughts/experience with them on the 40?

It was as good if not better than a kanthal build, I dont remember the exact specs on the coil I built other than it was 30g NI200, and a few more wraps than I usually used. I was able to replicate the vape I got from a Kanthal build, only smoother and more consistent. I build my Kayfuns different than most though. Like a carto on steroids. I lengthen one of the post and put a vertical coil in it, then pack filler around the coil.

Here it is on a R91

 

[finagle69]

^ I set up my Russian 91% the same way sans extended post. Mine has the positive leg bent down and trapped under the regular post, which leaves a long leg.

I probably wick mine a little differently. I strand some cotton under that long leg, then another strand around the opposite side. Then after that, place barrel and stuff loosely with more cotton all around. Very similar, though.

 

[Katya]

Strange, I just saw the email notification for your post and it said:

But I didnt see the "my favorite" part in your post above.

My favorite is the Taifun, of course it was my favorite before as well.

What really surprised me, was that now the two drippers are a VERY close second choice. Actually the hit on them is slightly better, but the PITA of constantly dripping juice into them knocks them down a notch. I think the hit on them is better because the coil (not just the wick) gets fully saturated.

What was so surprising is that as long as I have been vaping I have never warmed up to drippers, and I have tried dozens. The PITA factor of refilling, but more so the inevitable (and totally unacceptable) dry hit soured me on them. With this new board the dry hit issue completely goes away and I was able to allow myself to actually give them a chance and enjoy them. Refilling is still a PITA, but I have high hopes once get a Gdeal bottom feeder built up with this new board, as the BF concept could/should eliminate the PITA factor.

Yeah... It was a quick edit--I didn't want to go off topic again.

But I do appreciate your answer!

 

[mikepetro]

^ I set up my Russian 91% the same way sans extended post. Mine has the positive leg bent down and trapped under the regular post, which leaves a long leg.

I probably wick mine a little differently. I strand some cotton under that long leg, then another strand around the opposite side. Then after that, place barrel and stuff loosely with more cotton all around. Very similar, though.

Now thats where this DNA40 benefited me in this build.

On the DNA30 I was afraid to use rayon or cotton for fear I would burn it up so I used hemp as filler, and hemp would mat down as it got wet and pull away from the coil so I too did a wrap of fiber right against the coil, then filled up the chimney cavity afterwards.

Rayon actually expands when wet rather than mats, so since I am not afraid of burning it up now, with the new 40, I can just fill the chimney and if anything the rayon swells and packs tighter against the coil. No coil warp layer needed..

 

[BigBen01]

So if I am using Japanese cotton, what temp would be safe to vape at? I understand that the flash point of cotton is 410 degrees. But people are running these things at 500 plus? Does that not defeat the purpose of temp control?

 

[mikepetro]

So if I am using Japanese cotton, what temp would be safe to vape at? I understand that the flash point of cotton is 410 degrees. But people are running these things at 500 plus? Does that not defeat the purpose of temp control?

I am not well versed on cotton, but several of the beta testers used cotton very successfully.

Here is a photo from (I think) Gdeal where he tested dry (no juice) cotton at different temps. Not sure what kind of cotton though.