Exploding mods -- Discussion

[CaSHMeRe]

Again, we come back to the USER BuzzKill ... who puts the device in their pockets? Who decides what types of batteries to put in their device? Who decides to find the cheapest batteries possible thinking they are RCR's when in fact, they are simply CR's?

You can put every safety feature known to man on a device, but that doesn't stop someone from abusing/mishandling/terrorizing the device

USER AWARENESS AND WARNINGS ARE KEY, REGULATION IS NOT.

 

[Shelbeethehmmrgirl]

I don't think it anyone is saying we don't need a safer mod. The real issue is ECF is at a crossroads do they remain a disscussion only forum or do they be come a governing body for PVs? The choice they are making no longer makes them neutral in PV production. ECF has now set itself up as governing body by setting safety regulations. IMO it takes them away from being a neutral body. That is the real issue, I believe that experianced and new vapors will suffer from this change. JMO

 

[BuzzKill]

I'm not arguing with you on that point BUT , these devices can be made safer ! they have not been because there was no call to make them safer .

Analogy: the CAR , take 1963 Ford Fairlane 500 ( like I have ) then compare it to a 2010 Ford whatever ,
1963: drum brakes !!!!! AHHHH , trust me this thing wont stop
no power steering , no shoulder belt , no air bags , no fuel injection , metal dashboard etc. etc. etc.
2010 : side impact airbags , front, collision detection , antilock brakes , power steering , MP3 player , etc. etc. etc .

now is the 2010 a SAFER car ?? Yes , why ?
Technological advances , improved quality and improved safety ( safety is a BIG selling point ! )

This will happen to E-cigs as well , the technology in these MODS is WAY behind what the Chinese are doing in a mini battery.

A battery in a tube with a switch is a battery in a tube with a switch, no matter HOW cool it looks ( Not dissin anybody here just sayin )

I dont mean or want to argue with ya Cash , we just have differing opinions

 

[Blaze]

The problem is, there's ZERO scientific data backing someone's *opinion* What's to say that certain individual/user or group of users doesn't have it out for that vendor? Who is to say someone IS or IS NOT trusted and/or an expert? Without scientific safety data, governing of anything should be null and void. Otherwise, you are simply giving an Opinionated Review ... Something there is already a board for

Trusted would be based on community majority (ie - I personally "trust" the opinion of Don, or Sun simply based on past posts, their ability to "tell it like it is" without the BS, as alot of ppl can say as well).

What I'm suggesting would be "scientific data". People that are WILLING to put mods and/or mod parts thru their "paces", stress the hell out of said items, push them well past "recommended" tolerances, and report to the community as a whole. Also would be nice to have a central location for people to report distributors either way, be it something along the lines of "I got 'xyz' batteries at 'so and so.com', here's 'proof' that they indeed sell what they offer, and here's why they're 'safe'" or whatever (as I stated, there's ALOT of room for ideas/suggestions here)....

I, for one, would like a central location for a 'panel of experts'. Going from the newb prospective, the whole "mod" aspect of vaping can be quite overwhelming. It's easy to trust a vendor that offers a standard kit, much less so for a vendor that offers something that looks "martian" (which is exactly what I thought the first time I saw a SB")

 

[NatureBoy]

There is room for improvement, however the mod makers are a small group of basically hobbyists and single-owner companies who are not really in the position to implement the kind of stringent testing and R&D that is being proposed.

It is unfair and unreasonable to ask this kind of thing of these people. This is why their (ecf people) requests have been unanswered! I don't believe any of these people are capable of doing what's being requested of them.

Mods are not behind in technology compared with the commercial batteries. They're essentially the same thing! If people are using protected li-ion batteries in their mods, then it's the same device as a manual battery from Joye or SLB, etc. Tube, protected battery and a button.

 

[Blaze]

There is room for improvement, however the mod makers are a small group of basically hobbyists and single-owner companies who are not really in the position to implement the kind of stringent testing and R&D that is being proposed.

It is unfair and unreasonable to ask this kind of thing of these people. This is why their (ecf people) requests have been unanswered! I don't believe any of these people are capable of doing what's been requested of them.

This simply is untrue. Take Jeff at Thagbuilt (I think that's his name, pardon if I got it wrong). Instead of nitpicking everything to death, he took a stand, which was basically "Screw what people think, I'm going to make MY devices 'safer' whether they need to be or not" and even offered the option for previous buyers to "make their PVs safer". As I told him....Kudos, and we need ALOT more vendors like this....

 

[NatureBoy]

This simply is untrue. Take Jeff at Thagbuilt (I think that's his name, pardon if I got it wrong). Instead of nitpicking everything to death, he took a stand, which was basically "Screw what people think, I'm going to make MY devices 'safer' whether they need to be or not" and even offered the option for previous buyers to "make their PVs safer". As I told him....Kudos, and we need ALOT more vendors like this....

My post was more of a response to Buzzkill's suggestion for additional electronic protection.

Kudos to Jeff for sure. What were the modifications? [edit: i saw he is replacing end caps with vented ones.. seems like a good thing to do]

I just read the entire proposal from Roly.. I misunderstood the extent of what was being proposed as safety precautions in mods. Vent holes, kill switch, protected batteries.. not entirely unreasonable. Perhaps things I will take into consideration when I make my own, however I'm unsure as to how such a thing can be enforced with other mod makers. A debate not appropriate for me to take part in, since I am not currently selling mods.

 

[TonyLoco2]

I think perhaps Im failing to see how any safety concerns arrise from a common sense mod if it's using protected batteries. If a mod works then there is obviously a negative positive isolation, if the switch is mechanical and is only activated for a few seconds during a drag...then I'm confused as to how anything could go wrong onthe mod end?

Use quality batteries and don't abuse your pv? I'm all for safety, but I don't believe I've seen any major vendors selling any mods that might equate to smoking a stick of dynamite while making your toast in the bathtub? Lol. Educate people on common sense and battery safety and I think all will be well. Ultimately Anyone can blow anything up if they missuse it.

 

[Oliver]

Juice ... There is quite a large gap between Advertising/Promotion vs. Actual Selling ... Vendors don't *sell* their wares/mods/products on ECF, they use it as an advertising tool, just like Google Adwords. Saying ECF is liable & responsible for Advertisements and Promotions would be like saying ECF is also responsible for the Google Advertisements that pop up. ECF carries ZERO liability minus the income they do take in (Member Donations and Vendor Sponsorships) Otherwise ... Its a discussion forum. You can't sue CNET for a cell phone review you saw on their website

Steve, although liability is something ECF obviously needs to be concerned with, the main concern we have is for the safety of users.

We're now aware of 3 mod explosions that, thankfully, have not resulted in serious injury. Those users may or may not have been using the wrong type of battery, they may or may not have been aware of what battery is the right type of battery.

The point is, it doesn't matter - the more people using these mods, the more chance that someone is going to use them badly. It's not good enough for the manufacturers to say: "ah well, they should have paid more attention to the instructions" when the dangers are so high.

I think it's totally reasonable for us/manufacturers/an independent board to try to work out a minimum specification of safety for commercially sold mods, and to promote their safe use.

 

[KarrMcDebt]

Here is a thought that I haven't seen covered;

Just exactaly who is qualified to say if a mod is safe or not?

Most of us are not electronic engineers.
I have several years of electronics training. In the military I was trained to component level diagnostics, meaning that I was "certified" to isolate the flaw in a circuit to the individual component that failed.
Even with all that training in electronics I would not consider myself to be qualified to decide if a mod is safe or not.

So who will be deciding what mods are safe? Who decides what safety features are actualy usefull and which are superfluous?

I'm a modder, and I'd love to make safe mods. But who's opinion of what a safe mod is do I trust?

I can say that I doubt that I could make a mod that was completely idiot proof. And doing so only breeds better idiots.

Personaly, I think I just put a warning sticker on my mods that reads:

WARNING!!!!
Irresponsible use of this product may remove you from the gene pool! Any and all responsibility for this falls entirely upon the user, and will be considered to be for the greater good of the species.
Responsible users may ignore the preceding message.

What do you think?

 

[Charged]

Personaly, I think I just put a warning sticker on my mods that reads:

WARNING!!!!
Irresponsible use of this product may remove you from the gene pool! Any and all responsibility for this falls entirely upon the user, and will be considered to be for the greater good of the species.
Responsible users may ignore the preceding message.

What do you think?

^^
Perfect

 

[petercro]

I think it's totally reasonable for us/manufacturers/an independent board to try to work out a minimum specification of safety for commercially sold mods, and to promote their safe use.

Joe
I agree to some respect.
De-Gassing vents / Holes, Is a logical way forward in a sealed mod.
A kill switch is a good idea, So is removing the battery / atty for transport.
(However forcing the use of a kill switch is a bad idea, If an unrated switch were used it would cause more problems than it would solve)
Also wouldn't all the current selling mods that don't use a kill switch, be banned with immediate effect within the ECF.
But the main problem is un-protected batteries.
A simple sticker sealing the empty battery door, with the words (USE PROTECTED BATTERY ONLY) when sent from the manufacturer / modder.
Also sending an ECF Approved battery supplier list out with the mod.

But as for home made push switches.
I think you will find that they are a lot less likely to short as the modder will always over-engineer the connections.

I recently bought 2 18650's which were advertised as protected, (They were NOT). I won't make the same mistake again.
I am however using the unprotected 18650's in a 3.7v single battery mod with a heavily over-engineered push switch and an un-sealed case.
I also never take the battery out for transport, but I do remove the atomizer.

If an independent board is to be set up, then it must only oversee registered suppliers not modders who may sell a few mods to friends.
If the modder wishes to obtain board approval then it would be their choice.

 

[Oliver]

Peter, I don't know the specific attributes which will be required - I simply don't have the expertise. Rolygate is an engineer so he is overseeing this.

We only want to ensure that some minumum safety requirements are established for commercially available mods.

The modders who sell to a few friends, etc, are free to do as they wish - although I'd hope that when minimum safety standards are agreed on they are incorporated into all designs!

SJ

 

[SudokuGal]

I think it's a very smart move by ECF to protect themselves and their users. What i'm surprised at is it wasn't implemented sooner. When you have vendors selling their wares with no regulation other than self-regulation and ECF is supplying a website for those ventures, to me that blares of liability. This forum went beyond a 'discussion' forum when it started promoting products through their vendors.

Do juice suppliers that cut their own juices meet minimum quality standards? have a clean room?

it's one thing to say buyer beware, but it doesn't strip liability. We all want e-cigs safe. That should come before the hype.

kudos to ECF. I can't believe vendors are screaming like this is THEIR forum. It's a community.

It's not just the vendors who are disturbed by this. I am too, as I think they are in NO LEGITIMATE position to become a governing body. It's a fabulous idea if they want to help spearhead a safety standards board. Go ahead...do what it takes to help make a board. That takes time so that it is a legitimate effort: one that can be recognized as having the authority to give a stamp of approval.

ECF did not go beyond a discussion forum by promoting products through their vendors. The logic of that just fails. First, they ARE NOT promoting products by having vendor subforums. They were doing their members a favor of providing a place where members could know what is available. They were also making it possible for themselves to sustain this board since the vendors pay a fee for a subforum. There is no IMPILICIT or EXPILICIT "approved" vendors in this situation. And it is just absurd to think they have any liability, as so many posts on this topic have pointed out.

ECF is a DISCUSSION forum, plain and simple; it they want an offshoot for regulation, let that be a separate effort that is not a forum. I'm not saying that Rolygate didn't issue his statements out of geniune concern; however, tying his position on ECF, and ECF, to such an issue is something that I'd like him to reconsider.

 

[AngusATAT]

Hey guys. Rolygate made a thread HERE in order to get your feedback. It would be easier to try and keep the discussion in one place, rather than spread out through the forums.

 

[SikVapor]

Can someone please link me to the thread/incident that set off this latest mod uproar about dangerous/exploding batteries and fires?

 

[NatureBoy]

Can someone please link me to the thread/incident that set off this latest mod uproar about dangerous/exploding batteries and fires?

This was the latest one:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/thag-built-chuck/75702-my-chuck-blew-up-literally.html

 

[raqball]

Hey guys. Rolygate made a thread HERE in order to get your feedback. It would be easier to try and keep the discussion in one place, rather than spread out through the forums.

Good idea... Yo may close this so all further discussion can be posted in that thread...

Clicky ->>>>>> http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/site-feedback-help/76247-exploding-mods-feedback-thread.html