first coil on an RSST (pics)
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whoops! I was looking for it, but couldn't find the subforum on tapatalk! My apologies.
Yea, so I'm pretty much at the point where I'm just going to toss the mesh and cut a new piece. If I can pull anything from this thread so far:
1) The leg coming from the negative post shouldn't be resting on the deck, it should have spacing.
2) Quenching the mesh isn't a good idea. I should just torch in and let it cool by itself a few times.
3) Obviously make sure there are no hot spots on the coil.
Do I want the coils to heat from the inside out, or the outside in? Any other pointers before I tackle this again on Tuesday?
Your coils should light up from the inside out
no one coil should be lighting brighter than the others
if you ever fire your build with a full tank of juice and all of your coils light up, then your wick is dry and not wicking properly
When you fire your build with a full tank of e liquid it should look like this (notice that the coils are not lighting up) ..
Forget the mesh, it's unreliable and hard to work with for most of us (me). Get some ss cable or rope... wrap some ekowool or cotton on the top where you'll wrap your coil, it'll wick like a champ.
i think 1in is just not enough mesh for the diameter. i would increase the width of your mesh and roll it sort of tight with just a tiny hole thru the center. another reason your coil could be glowing with juice in the tank is a slightly loose wrap. if your coils aren't in good contact with the mesh they will glow.
wrapping some cotton on the top of the mesh is just a band aid. it might work ok for a day or so but what happens when you do a dry burn? are you going to re- wrap the coil evry other day? mesh by itself is a great vape and once one gets profficent with it, you can have the same wick and coil in it for weeks on end with just doing occasional dry burns. cable does work well and some say its better then mesh, personally i just didn't like the heat sink involved.
When I do SS Mesh I will heat and water quench 4 times then soak the wick with 50/50 and burn it off, let it air cool and repeat. Taste performance is amazing.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So I temporarily gave up on the mesh wick because I really wanted to get things going.
I have a ton of boiled organic cotton, so I followed a tutorial on YouTube and ended up with this.
I wrapped 7/6 wraps of 30ga around a 5/64" bit, left the bit in the wick hole (without juice), and tried to have the coil's height about halfway between the height of the neg post and the pos post.
I PMed someone from another board who said to twist the cotton up to about the size of a toothpick, as it would expand to fit the coil without being too thick. I also read on a huge RSST thread on ECF that the fill plug should be taken out since it creates a vacuum, but I'd rather leave it in.
I'm getting a really harsh dry/hot hit when vaping for over a few seconds. I'm trying to tilt it between 45-90° away from my body to increase wicking, but stick getting this nasty cough-inducing hit. Also, when I didn't have juice in, I noticed that the coil was glowing from inside out, but both the legs weren't glowing at all. it was just the coil.
Anyone wanna offer me some definitive advice?
Also, the coil came out to 1.4, but after it was in place and all, it ended up 1.9 ohms. I'm using and reading the RSST on an eVic which is regulated.
Definitely think I have a huge wicking problem. After a few seconds of firing, the coils are still glowing, and the positive leg is also glowing. Onto my 3rd try! -_______-
the legs are glowing, but only about halfway to the posts. How far around the posts am I supposed to wrap the legs? does it even matter?
It's hard to keep these vertical microcoil a sticking together with the distance between the pos and neg...
The issues you are having with mesh are related to wicking if the coils glow inside out. On the RSST and other genesis atomizers you have 2 options for optimum wicking(especially at sub ohm, I run a .5 ceramic wick RSST). Either leave space in the wick hole for air to come and go or take the fill plug out when you vape.
You could also be rolling your mesh too tight or wrapping the mesh too tight with coils and cutting into the oxidation layer. It's much easier to overly tighten with small wire like 30Ga. You may try wrapping your wire on a drill bit just a hair bigger than your wick in diameter, connecting, then twisting your wick through. It shouldn't drop in, but rather it should go in with a bit of resistance. This will help with hotspots from small wire.
Another thing is you should drill the air hole out. When I first got my Igo-W everything past 6W tasted burnt with stock draw. Try drilling it to 1/16" and make sure your air home is aligned with your coils. The RSST doesn't have near the amount of airflow that it should for optimal performance.
Some people swear by cotton, I tried once and it couldn't wick vertically like mesh could. A few dry cotton hits is all you need to say f-that.
You could also be rolling your mesh too tight or wrapping the mesh too tight with coils and cutting into the oxidation layer. It's much easier to overly tighten with small wire like 30Ga. You may try wrapping your wire on a drill bit just a hair bigger than your wick in diameter, connecting, then twisting your wick through. It shouldn't drop in, but rather it should go in with a bit of resistance. This will help with hotspots from small wire.
Another thing is you should drill the air hole out. When I first got my Igo-W everything past 6W tasted burnt with stock draw. Try drilling it to 1/16" and make sure your air home is aligned with your coils. The RSST doesn't have near the amount of airflow that it should for optimal performance.
Some people swear by cotton, I tried once and it couldn't wick vertically like mesh could. A few dry cotton hits is all you need to say f-that.
As others have mentioned, when your wick is juiced there should be zero glowing anywhere, anytime you see glowing that's almost a guarantee you will have a harsh vape with horrible flavor. If using mesh the glowing means either a short, a leg with too much tension, or a loose wrap that isn't in contact with the wick. After building your coil use a flashlight or something and very very carefully inspect the coil and make sure all sections of wire are touching the wick.
Also make sure the negative lead doesn't touch anything after it leaves the post/screw. It should go up at a slight angle then make straight direct contact with the wick. You don't want the leg curling around the wick without making contact with it.
If you want to try mesh again, I'd really suggest wrapping your coil on a drillbit, screw driver, pin, etc, then with the drillbit still in place install the coil on the device. This allows you to position the coil and get the legs perfect without worrying about crushing the coil or the wick. Once the coil is in position, remove the bit, and fire the coil to make sure everything glows with an even brightness and starts from the inside out.
Then you can roll your mesh wick. Look at your sheet of mesh, and you will see more pronounced lines that run from one side to the other. This is the grain of the mesh, and you want to roll the mesh so that grain is going lengthwise down the wick. As you know, when rolling a mesh wick, if you roll one way it gets tighter, and the other way looser.
Right now your coil is already installed in the RSST, your wick is rolled. Now you need to feed the wick through the coil. Using trial and error get the wick to a thickness where you can gently roll it into the coil, rolling the direction that makes it tighter, it should slide into the coil easily.
Then you can roll the wick gently one way or the other to adjust the tightness of the wick inside the coil. You want it firm enough that all wraps touch the wick, and that it won't fall out by itself, but loose enough that you can move it up and down without too much resistance. You should be able to move the wick up and down without the coil moving at all.
Then you can pulse and work the shorts out. Fire in short bursts. If this method is done well sometimes you won't even have a single short when firing for the first time, but if you do it's pretty quick to work them out. Just gently rake the coils with a pin or small flat head screw driver followed by firing the coil to see if it's firing even.
If you want to stick with cotton, there is almost an equally sharp learning curve. You don't have to worry about shorts between the coil and wick, but you do have to get the amount of cotton nearly PERFECT or else you will suffer issues with burning, bad flavor, etc.
When making the cotton wick I suggest messing with it as little as possible. You don't want to compress or twist the cotton, you want a very very fluffy open length of cotton, that once pulled through the coil, can move relatively freely side to side with minimal friction against the coil.
Check out the "working wick and coil pictures" thread in the RBA section, I'd suggest starting at the end of the thread, not the beginning. Quickly scan the pictures there, and look for ones with cotton builds, preferably ones that haven't been juiced up yet. This will give you an idea of how fluffy the cotton should look. You don't want to make a solid cotton wick, it should be as loose as you can possibly make it, while still being uniform and strong enough to pull through the coil.
Using cotton on Genesis devices is hit or miss depending on your setup. If you are just starting out rebuilding it might be a lot of work to get it wicking properly.
The easiest way I've found to setup a genny with cotton is to use it as a tipper. You build the deck like you would a normal dripping atty, with a decent amount of wick on top of the deck. You leave the holes in the deck open, and when your wick runs dry you just tip the device upside down quickly to let a bit of juice flow into the deck area.
When you flip it right side up again the extra juice flows back into the tank and you're ready to vape. Whenever it starts to run dry just tip and it will replenish your juice.
Also, in your pictures I see you have the fill plug in place. Remove the plug, it blocks airflow, which reduces wicking. When juice leaves the tank, air needs to enter the tank to replace the volume, and the fill plugs make this more difficult.
Also make sure the negative lead doesn't touch anything after it leaves the post/screw. It should go up at a slight angle then make straight direct contact with the wick. You don't want the leg curling around the wick without making contact with it.
If you want to try mesh again, I'd really suggest wrapping your coil on a drillbit, screw driver, pin, etc, then with the drillbit still in place install the coil on the device. This allows you to position the coil and get the legs perfect without worrying about crushing the coil or the wick. Once the coil is in position, remove the bit, and fire the coil to make sure everything glows with an even brightness and starts from the inside out.
Then you can roll your mesh wick. Look at your sheet of mesh, and you will see more pronounced lines that run from one side to the other. This is the grain of the mesh, and you want to roll the mesh so that grain is going lengthwise down the wick. As you know, when rolling a mesh wick, if you roll one way it gets tighter, and the other way looser.
Right now your coil is already installed in the RSST, your wick is rolled. Now you need to feed the wick through the coil. Using trial and error get the wick to a thickness where you can gently roll it into the coil, rolling the direction that makes it tighter, it should slide into the coil easily.
Then you can roll the wick gently one way or the other to adjust the tightness of the wick inside the coil. You want it firm enough that all wraps touch the wick, and that it won't fall out by itself, but loose enough that you can move it up and down without too much resistance. You should be able to move the wick up and down without the coil moving at all.
Then you can pulse and work the shorts out. Fire in short bursts. If this method is done well sometimes you won't even have a single short when firing for the first time, but if you do it's pretty quick to work them out. Just gently rake the coils with a pin or small flat head screw driver followed by firing the coil to see if it's firing even.
If you want to stick with cotton, there is almost an equally sharp learning curve. You don't have to worry about shorts between the coil and wick, but you do have to get the amount of cotton nearly PERFECT or else you will suffer issues with burning, bad flavor, etc.
When making the cotton wick I suggest messing with it as little as possible. You don't want to compress or twist the cotton, you want a very very fluffy open length of cotton, that once pulled through the coil, can move relatively freely side to side with minimal friction against the coil.
Check out the "working wick and coil pictures" thread in the RBA section, I'd suggest starting at the end of the thread, not the beginning. Quickly scan the pictures there, and look for ones with cotton builds, preferably ones that haven't been juiced up yet. This will give you an idea of how fluffy the cotton should look. You don't want to make a solid cotton wick, it should be as loose as you can possibly make it, while still being uniform and strong enough to pull through the coil.
Using cotton on Genesis devices is hit or miss depending on your setup. If you are just starting out rebuilding it might be a lot of work to get it wicking properly.
The easiest way I've found to setup a genny with cotton is to use it as a tipper. You build the deck like you would a normal dripping atty, with a decent amount of wick on top of the deck. You leave the holes in the deck open, and when your wick runs dry you just tip the device upside down quickly to let a bit of juice flow into the deck area.
When you flip it right side up again the extra juice flows back into the tank and you're ready to vape. Whenever it starts to run dry just tip and it will replenish your juice.
Also, in your pictures I see you have the fill plug in place. Remove the plug, it blocks airflow, which reduces wicking. When juice leaves the tank, air needs to enter the tank to replace the volume, and the fill plugs make this more difficult.
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Oops I missed this post of yours! The glow doesn't look too bad on the leg, when testing like that without any wick the coil gets much hotter obviously and travel further up the leg than it will when wicked and juiced. That might perform OK, but you won't know until you wick it and juice it.
I drew a little blue line on your picture to show you where the top leg should be ideally. It can be a bit tricky but you can get the wire deeper between the screw head and washer. The negative leg looks OK from what I can see. Also make sure to take the fill plug out.
I'm assuming you wrapped that coil around something like a drillbit or pin of some sort? To keet it together and stop it from getting warped while dealing with the legs, leave the bit/pin inside the coil until it's screwed down and secure. That way you can use the bit as a lever to adjust and get the orientation of the coil perfect too.
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Wow, I'm not even going to quote your post since it is so long. I am so thankful for ECF, you guys are incredible.
metamorpheus, I have read about the air hole plenty of times with the RSST, just didn't have a drill to do it. I'm going to do it tomorrow and report back. Thank you a ton for your insight; I will use it along with Uncle's as structuring.
Uncle:
Loved the step-by-step tutorial, especially the precise details. I'm actually pretty confident now that I might have a shot at producing a semi-decent build. Think I'm going to go back to mesh and give it a go. When I give it a shot tomorrow, I'm going to copy your post and just type underneath what I did or how it went or where I need help.
Once again, thank you for taking the time to help me out; it means a lot.
metamorpheus, I have read about the air hole plenty of times with the RSST, just didn't have a drill to do it. I'm going to do it tomorrow and report back. Thank you a ton for your insight; I will use it along with Uncle's as structuring.
Uncle:
Loved the step-by-step tutorial, especially the precise details. I'm actually pretty confident now that I might have a shot at producing a semi-decent build. Think I'm going to go back to mesh and give it a go. When I give it a shot tomorrow, I'm going to copy your post and just type underneath what I did or how it went or where I need help.
Once again, thank you for taking the time to help me out; it means a lot.
Ok, Just drilled the airhole out to 3/64" which is apprx 1.2mm. I figured that I would drill small before going any larger as others have said before with their famous last words.
Am I supposed to be torching the mesh? Once again, this is temporarily going on a regulated device, so I'm not sure if I can oxidize by pulsing (IIRC). Also, once torched, do I need to quench it?
Am I supposed to be torching the mesh? Once again, this is temporarily going on a regulated device, so I'm not sure if I can oxidize by pulsing (IIRC). Also, once torched, do I need to quench it?
Sup y'all.
So I cut off some mesh, about 3in x 2in. torched it back and forth til it was red hot and let cool twice. I rolled it up as tight as possible, ended up having to cut off a little since I couldn't roll it small enough to fit in the wick hole. put some ejuice on, lite on fire, let burn off twice.
I already had some juice in the tank, and tbh, it's the last of my juice until 480mL comes in, so I found a screwdriver that has the same diameter as the wick hole and made a wrap. 5/4 30ga came out to 1.6 ohms. I tried then fitting the wick down into the coil, but I noticed there were too many spots where the coil wraps weren't touching the wick, so I scrapped that.
I then just stuck the wick into the hole, which filled the hole completely but had plenty of room to move up and down. I cut off 6in of wire and wrapped 4/3 this time to give me 1.3 Ohms. 4/3 instead of 5/4 gave me more room to allow the positive leg not to be close to the top wrap. I snipped the top of the wick and gave it a few drops of juice to help it out.
Drilled the cap air hole out to 3/64", which I can't see how anyone would want bigger than 1/16"...I guess it's because I'm not on a mech and making huge clouds yet. I also took the fill hole plug out.
The verdict: I'm not getting a terrible taste anymore; HOWEVER, I'm not getting as much flavor as I thought I would. Honestly, I still can taste the mesh pretty good. If you know what Boba's tastes like, you'll know that it shouldn't be overpowered by the mesh taste. I am happy that it's not shorting, and that not wraps are glowing or anything like that.
Will the meshy taste go away with a little time? Also, how high should I fill the RSST tank? I'm currently between 1/2 and 3/4.
Thanks guys.
Also, 2 more questions:
With a 1.3 coil on a regulated mod (especially the eVic since it has a 2 amp ceiling), I'm not getting the best performance out of it. If I head to the local shop and snag a cheap mech, can I just throw the RSST on there and vape away? I could always wrap it once more for 1.6 ohm, but I am looking for an excuse to spend money on a pretty looking mod, and get into the mech world in the first place.
Cheers.
With a 1.3 coil on a regulated mod (especially the eVic since it has a 2 amp ceiling), I'm not getting the best performance out of it. If I head to the local shop and snag a cheap mech, can I just throw the RSST on there and vape away? I could always wrap it once more for 1.6 ohm, but I am looking for an excuse to spend money on a pretty looking mod, and get into the mech world in the first place.
Cheers.
you need to check for hot spots without any juice in the tank, even if you oxidize the wick first. like most have mentioned there is 2 ways of oxidizing the wick, one is to flame it before inserting and the other is to install the wick raw and let the wire oxidize it. either way you need to make sure there are no shorts and no hotspots before adding juice. lets say you pre ox the wick, then you install it into tank( tank needs to be dry) now wrap the wick and connect leads. now start out at low voltage and pulse the coil, this will tell you if everything is ok. after pulsing and glowing the coils you need to see that there are no glowing leads, all coils fire up at the same time and no hot spots. if you do see these things then you need to tweak them and work them out. if you do get the coil looking good then up the voltage, check again, up voltage again and check. the coil needs to look perfect all the way up to the voltage you intend to vape it at when you eventually add the juice. only then should you add juice to the tank. now if you want to ox the wick after its installed, you do this by letting the wire, or coil oxidize the mesh. this can be done by first using a lighter to the mesh for a few seconds just to clean the mesh, don't burn it or anything just a quick flame. then roll up the mesh and insert into device, then coil the wick and without any juice in the tank start to pulse the coil, at first because the wick is not oxidized it will have hotspots all over but eventually by pulsing intermittently the wire will oxidize the coil. this takes time and is better done on a mech mod because a vv device will error because of the shorting going on. the benefit of the latter method is that the wick is only oxidized where it is needed which may be better flavor wise. anyways all the hot spots need to be worked out without juice in the tank.
I see you just said you only have an evic so oxidizing the wick in the device might not be a good idea. I would ox the wick before hand like you were doing before. the issue with a mechanical mod is there is no protection so be careful. see if you do a coil and it is shorting out real bad the evic will let you know but a mec mod will just fire a short. if you do get a mech mod just be a little careful. getting back to your evic, I would make your coils in the 1.8 to 2.0 res range. now if you get a mech then I would lower it to about 1.2ish
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