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DoubleTap1

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In good humerus guys let's just take a deep breath and understand the intention of what Hydro was attempting to say. Though his initial thought that the price was $250 US, what I got out of this was that perhaps....perhaps, a version with no extras might be a viable offer for those who aren't interested in a extra glass tank and ss tank. Perhaps in the range of $125 US.
As for cloning the GEM, I'm not convinced it will happen for two reasons. It would be very difficult to make a copy for half this price and two, the GEM is geared for highend RTA folks with a touch of collectability thrown in; I wouldn't call the GEM mass produced even not knowing the exact amount made.
Of the 5 pricy RTA's I have to say that this GEM so far is my best and most favorite already in less than a week of using it. Having the extras is a bonus, though some may purfur a base model for a tad less.
Now don't be fooled, they cloned the Kayfun V4, though not without its numerous problems. But Kayfun is a well known name and I think the Chinese took the gamble.
At the time when I wanted one, there was none to be bought from retailers. I found "1", on Ebay, used once, ultrasonic cleaned and paid $205 for it. Ya I paid the entrance fee for getting on when there were none to be had, big deal; by the way, it's now number 2 on my list of best RTA's, replaced by the GEM.
Biggest disappointment is my Rose, now a collection idem. My Squape is number 3 followed by my Erlkoenigin Nano. Speaking of which I paid primumum price with no extras, none!!! And a plastic tank, that I have yet to find a glass replacement that fit right and didn't leak. I get all sides of this discussion, but I believe Hypro when he says he was not advocating a clone.
In this game, in most cases, you get what you pay for, the Rose may be the exception.
Now back to topic, this is a very fine Atty with extras most people would eventually be asking for anyway.
Vape on brothers, and sisters.
 
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hypocritelecteur

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Thanks DoubleTap.
I sure hope this doesn't get cloned even if it is possible. I do hope that there's an officially branded lite version with the easily replicable parts outsourced QC approved and sourced by the original manufacturer and some proprietary parts made in house shared with the full package version a la Erlprinz. Probably will never happen, but I think it's a smart model.
 

turbocad6

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I say screw the cheap version man, I want titanium!!

everything mark chooses to make he just winds up making the best one in existence. his products are elite and the very definition of high end. I don't think he really needs to make pedestrian budget versions. there are no budget Rolls or Bentleys, no budget Rolex... as it is I think marks stuff is an exceptional value tbh, $179 is a reasonable price for this thing I think
 

qorax

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I say screw the cheap version man, I want titanium!!

everything mark chooses to make he just winds up making the best one in existence. his products are elite and the very definition of high end. I don't think he really needs to make pedestrian budget versions. there are no budget Rolls or Bentleys, no budget Rolex... as it is I think marks stuff is an exceptional value tbh, $179 is a reasonable price for this thing I think
One 100 percent agreed. And yes, it is very well priced. Much better than many others out there.
 

IanDVaypes

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Thanks DoubleTap.
I sure hope this doesn't get cloned even if it is possible. I do hope that there's an officially branded lite version with the easily replicable parts outsourced QC approved and sourced by the original manufacturer and some proprietary parts made in house shared with the full package version a la Erlprinz. Probably will never happen, but I think it's a smart model.
I understand what you're talking about. Some companies put out great products for more, some do crappy work for less and some even do both. Mark has quality in his name and won't stand behind anything less to give it his 150%. Call him Marquality Bugs. He sells jewelry grade devices that only appeal to the people who respect the quality. Same thing goes for jewelry with quality names.
 

hypocritelecteur

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But it's that market and the limited availability that drives the cloners. Getting that under control requires a market driven method. You can't legislate cheap knockoffs out of existence due to globalization of trade, and you can't remove the demand. What might work and increase profitability to the innovators is curating a collection that includes lite versions of their products.

I mean, my plan is still to save most of my vape budget and get this in a few months. But chances are by then there will be other things competing for my attention even if I hold out that long. It seems to be a way forward where the right people get rewarded for their work, and the full version premium is still there for the luxury crowd. And taking a proactive step to swallow some of the market share of the parasites.

The difference between an atomizer and jewelry is that the materials are the bulk of the price. Here it's R&D. Or more specifically Mark Bugs' metal magician mind. Once you have the R&D done there's no cost involved in applying it to a modified and arbitrarily limited version other than time building supply chain. Knocking off a $5000 gold watch with $4000 worth of materials and selling it cheap enough that people might buy it compared against the original simply isn't very profitable. Selling an atomizer where the bulk of the value came from R&D with $5 of materials for $30 because you acquired the plans at no cost, however, is very attractive to cloners. An official product at $75ish, if doable, would let consumers like me jump on that train immediately. MB wins, vapers win, cloners lose. Make it a little uglier. Leave the big features in. Change a few little comfort/ease things. Release it a month later and call it the Rhinestone or the Geode or something. Then when it comes down to the choice for people who do buy clones, they can take a gamble on a clone and hope, or buy something that is quality and benefits the innovator. Many will go authentic who otherwise wouldn't have. The folks who would drop the dough on the premium piece will still do it. If enough original manufacturers do this we'll take out a huge chunk of the cloners market. It's the only way to fight it.

The car example is actually really apt. Bentley's have entry level cars and full featured models. This is why.

Clones require a market driven response from manufacturers or this nonsense is going to continue. It's just capitalism at play. There's no way to plug a demand hole without producing a product to fill that void that benefits you. That might not be a problem for Mark, though, if his units are just not reproduceable, and this is veering wildly off topic for a thread dedicated to a true gem. I lust after it.

So vape on. Maybe I'll make a new thread for it.
 
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qorax

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The Gem is well worth 160 Euro, but if MB can sell a similar atty with less features (e.g., one piece build deck/AFC/base and regular stainless) for half that, he could be raking in cash. It's all up to him.
The problem is - he's not interested ~ and neither are we. We drive to MB for their superfine quality, design and uniqueness. We don't want a half-cocked gun from them. For that there are many other avenues.

There are plenty of other, fine performing, gears out there. From MB we want only the exquisite stuff. Which is why, tho I posted about it nearly a year back - we waited patiently, didn't we? And we still grabbed The GEM happily after one year.
 

qorax

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Q, Turbocad,

I know it would be a PITA for you but would be interesting to know your results of the posi screw test to see how yours compare to mine.

No worries if you don't want to strip yours down.
Paul, I don't have a camera good enough to take micro-shots. So, my closeup pics wouldn't matter (to compare with yours) unfortunately :(
 

turbocad6

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many manufacturers can build simpler gear. one piece build decks and simple afc's are all about cost effective designs. mark bugs designs are complicated and engineered well beyond that, there not designed to be cost effective or easy to mass produce, there engineered to be as good as it can be, cost be damned. why would you ask Micheal Angelo to paint your living room flat white? :)

now if mark winded up with much larger production capabilities and needed to move mass product then yeah, I agree that a more cost effective version would have more mass appeal to do large quantities, but right now marks stuff is high end boutique, best of the best gear, and there is usually more demand than he is capable of supplying as it is. I would love to see some more really high end stuff from him. a Ti gem would be sick, another run of Ti wizards would be sick, a titanium dna40 squonk box mark bugs style would be sick. there are tons of other guys building affordable mass market gear, why go to a boutique artist and ask him to contribute to that pool? because you don't want to pay for the best? I don't get it.... I want Ti damn it :)
 

turbocad6

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Q, Turbocad,

I know it would be a PITA for you but would be interesting to know your results of the posi screw test to see how yours compare to mine.

No worries if you don't want to strip yours down.

I'll try to do this tomorrow, wanted to try some 30 gauge to see how it compares to the 28 anyway

man between this new gem and all of the talk about the rarity of the 18500 wizard I've winded up with a whole new appreciation again for this mod. when I first got it I was a little disappointed because I really wanted an 18650 at the time. now I'm pretty glad I got the 18500 :) finding another 18650 wasn't too hard so now I swap between them depending on what I'm doing.


I'm running my gem right now at only ~15 watts and 490F temp limit and it's just an awesome vape, the low wattage makes the 18500 practical again. with the rose I was running t at 25 watts or more to get as enjoyable of a vape and the battery wouldn't last long at all
 

turbocad6

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so now thinking further along those lines, what else is available out there anywhere that's around this size, with temp control? is there anything? really, if I want to get another gem and run it on another mod similar in size to this, what is out there to even look at?

20150719_040213_zpsdbv5rqhh.jpg


it probably wouldn't be too difficult to shorten an 18650 apprentice, remove 15mm from the center section and tig it back together. if I could get one at a reasonable price I think that's something I'd like to do if there's nothing else this small. it's such a pleasure to hold, I hate long mods...
 

Bitter Jeweler

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Q, Turbocad,

I know it would be a PITA for you but would be interesting to know your results of the posi screw test to see how yours compare to mine.

No worries if you don't want to strip yours down.

Hi. I had read about your issue earlier, and I don't know if you got it resolved, but, I put a 26g wire coil in my GEM, and it worked for a few draws then shorted out. I took it apart and sure enough it's the posi screw head. It has a "weld" mark on it, and a corresponding mark in the top of the chamber.

I put a 28g coil in, and no issue.

I'll be filing that screw head down and rounding off it's outer edge.

Hope that helps.
 
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Yozhik

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so now thinking further along those lines, what else is available out there anywhere that's around this size, with temp control? is there anything? really, if I want to get another gem and run it on another mod similar in size to this, what is out there to even look at?

Dicodes 2380T

@dems86 has one. I don't know where he bought it from though.
 
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