Generally I'm freaking out!!!

[englishmick]

We all better practice this:

"It's not my ecig officer, I'm just holding it for a friend!"

I swear, I've never used it for nicotine.

 

[AndriaD]

It often isn't simple, voting by issue instead of party. Unless you only have one issue I guess.

In my State all of them voted to bury vaping.

My wife gets good health care through ACA. It's her only option. Her employer doesn't offer cover, she's 5 years away from Medicare, and she can't get it through my employer any more since I turned 65. Should I vote for someone who would protect vaping but take away my wife's health care? Or a fanatically anti-vaping socialist who would keep my wife alive for a few more years. Etc. And there are plenty of people for whom getting rid of ACA is as important as keeping it is for me. Vaping matters but it's not at the top of my list.

Maybe it's a more useful tactic at the local levels.

I guess it's all in your point of view, on the "keeping her alive" issue -- unless she already suffers a major illness that requires frequent medical care, I would think that being able to continue vaping would do more to help keep her alive, than easy access to medical care -- I have no insurance at all because I can't afford it at all, but I rarely need medical care either -- twice a year Dr. visits for my asthma med refills; that sets me back about $150, and the meds are free from GSK due to no insurance/low income; the expensive emergency kind, like for my appendectomy, was handled on a charity basis because of no insurance/low income.

Andria

 

[440BB]

I swear, I've never used it for nicotine.

I wonder which vaper among us will be the first one to appear shirtless at night on a Cops episode.

"Is that an 18650 under the seat?" "I smell blueberry and cereal, better get the taser ready"

 

[Rule62]

It often isn't simple, voting by issue instead of party. Unless you only have one issue I guess.

In my State all of them voted to bury vaping.

My wife gets good health care through ACA. It's her only option. Her employer doesn't offer cover, she's 5 years away from Medicare, and she can't get it through my employer any more since I turned 65. Should I vote for someone who would protect vaping but take away my wife's health care? Or a fanatically anti-vaping socialist who would keep my wife alive for a few more years. Etc. And there are plenty of people for whom getting rid of ACA is as important as keeping it is for me. Vaping matters but it's not at the top of my list.

Maybe it's a more useful tactic at the local levels.

I fully agree, and am in the same boat.
Before retiring, I made a good living for nearly 40 years as a union worker. I've been a registered Democrat, all of my adult life. I'm now on Medicare, but Mrs Rule, being self employed, was unable to purchase health insurance, at any price, due to pre existing conditions, prior to the ACA.
The way I look at it, everybody has their 'core' issues; those issues that have the most impact on their own lives, and that of their family.
I vape. I hunt. I own firearms. I believe in personal liberties, as long as I'm not harming others, etc.
Vaping is important to me. It's an activity I enjoy. But compared to some others, such as workers' rights to collectively bargain, and preservation of affordable and available health care, vaping isn't at the top of my list.

 

[BreSha6869]

I wonder which vaper among us will be the first one to appear shirtless at night on a Cops episode.

"Is that an 18650 under the seat?" "I smell blueberry and cereal, better get the taser ready"

I swear to god it is drugs, officer! It's not nicotene!!!!!!

 

[daviedog]

Absolutely this. I was one of them not so long ago, a real diehard sort; when I encounter smokers now, I just have this overwhelming gratitude to be finally free of them myself, and wonder if they've yet heard any real facts about e-cigs, or just the garbage on TV. If they express any interest or curiosity, I do everything I can to try and dispel any myths they've heard, but I've mostly gotten over the urge to want to shout the good news about vaping from the rooftops.

Smokers aren't bad guys. They're people who made a bad choice probably many years ago, and now probably wish they could change it, but maybe don't know how easy it could really be. I may not be a smoker myself anymore, but it still makes me sick to see how the public at large treats them -- lepers would probably get a better reception. And now the public at large thinks that vapers are going to sit still for that sort of treatment???

I don't think so.

Andria

The government gave ebola a better reception..

 

[Two_Bears]

It often isn't simple, voting by issue instead of party. Unless you only have one issue I guess.

In my State all of them voted to bury vaping.

My wife gets good health care through ACA. It's her only option. Her employer doesn't offer cover, she's 5 years away from Medicare, and she can't get it through my employer any more since I turned 65. Should I vote for someone who would protect vaping but take away my wife's health care? Or a fanatically anti-vaping socialist who would keep my wife alive for a few more years. Etc. And there are plenty of people for whom getting rid of ACA is as important as keeping it is for me. Vaping matters but it's not at the top of my list.

Maybe it's a more useful tactic at the local levels.

Voting is a lot easier than people think.

Locally vote for people with the sense God gave a goose.

Nationally vote for people that will support the duties of the Govt and follow the Constitution.

Health care is so easy to solve if the idiots in Washington would get out of the way.

Here is how I would solve the healthcare problem.

1. Allow insurance companies to compete for your business across state lines.

2. Approve and support Medical Savings accounts. Get catastrophic health care with big copays. Every month deposit 1/12 of the co pay in a MSA. use this money for doctors visits co pays and medicine. Whatever you don't spend of that big co psy roll it over into an IRA. This will stop doctors visits on frivolous reasons lime hang nsils and the sniffles.

For those that are poor there are the Catholic charities of local Doc in s box. And allow them to use those free medical to reduce the taxes.

Yes I have visited the Doc in s box and Catholic charities clinics. I had to have two teeth pulled a year ago, and I had two teeth pulled for $88 each. I can't afford ACA or dental care.

The biggest problem with medicine today is malpractice insurance and the need of tort reform.

15 years ago my dentist K Miller told me that he needed $1/2 million coming in his office a year before he earned s single penny.

Payment of rent, employees, malpractice insurance.. And supplies. The first tooth I had pulled by a dentist cost $8. The last yooth pulled by a dentist was $638..

The problem is malpractice insurance and needed tort reform.

 

[schatz]

Voting is a lot easier than people think.

Locally vote for people with the sense God gave a goose.

Nationally vote for people that will support the duties of the Govt and follow the Constitution.

Health care is so easy to solve if the idiots in Washington would get out of the way.

Here is how I would solve the healthcare problem.

1. Allow insurance companies to compete for your business across state lines.

2. Approve and support Medical Savings accounts. Get catastrophic health care with big copays. Every month deposit 1/12 of the co pay in a MSA. use this money for doctors visits co pays and medicine. Whatever you don't spend of that big co psy roll it over into an IRA. This will stop doctors visits on frivolous reasons lime hang nsils and the sniffles.

For those that are poor there are the Catholic charities of local Doc in s box. And allow them to use those free medical to reduce the taxes.

Yes I have visited the Doc in s box and Catholic charities clinics. I had to have two teeth pulled a year ago, and I had two teeth pulled for $88 each. I can't afford ACA or dental care.

The biggest problem with medicine today is malpractice insurance and the need of tort reform.

15 years ago my dentist K Miller told me that he needed $1/2 million coming in his office a year before he earned s single penny.

Payment of rent, employees, malpractice insurance.. And supplies. The first tooth I had pulled by a dentist cost $8. The last yooth pulled by a dentist was $638..

The problem is malpractice insurance and needed tort reform.

I know an easier way, abolish insurance.

 

[Two_Bears]

I know an easier way, abolish insurance.

Then no one could afford to get any medical care.. We need competition instead of a monopoly along with tort reform.

 

[Douggro]

I know an easier way, abolish insurance.

Then no one could afford to get any medical care.. We need competition instead of a monopoly along with tort reform.

I think the inference from schatz was to move to nationalized medical care, ala Canada.

 

[daviedog]

I went to college abroad. You have to abolish medical insurance & malpractice insurance to go single payer.
In america? Fat chance..

 

[crxess]

I wonder which vaper among us will be the first one to appear shirtless at night on a Cops episode.

"Is that an 18650 under the seat?" "I smell blueberry and cereal, better get the taser ready"

If it ever comes to that.............................

I Volunteer as Tribute!!!

Yea, beat up on the old man with his APV

 

[Douggro]

If it ever comes to that.............................

I Volunteer as Tribute!!!

Yea, beat up on the old man with his APV

"I thought his eGrip VT was a weapon, so I deployed my Taser."

 

[schatz]

I think the inference from schatz was to move to nationalized medical care, ala Canada.

A

I think the inference from schatz was to move to nationalized medical care, ala Canada.

What I am getting at is very simplistic, so it would eliminate middleman and doctors would not have to pay such high overhead for administration costs and such. It is really eye opening the amount of money we waiste for nothing gained.

 

[mountaingal]

You guys are so funny! There will still be vaping, as Big Tobacco has their hand in it. Our gear is not illegal, it just won't be able to be sold. So, do as I did, I bought rebuildable atomizers and only mods that had removable batteries, and enough nicotine base to last 5 years, or 10 if I cut my juice down to 3mg! We will still be able to buy wire, cotton, and batteries.
I did all the advocating I thought would work. We lost the battle, but not all is lost. At the very least, we can take the juice out of the cartridges they WILL sell us. And maybe by then, someone will have got their gear or juice approved.

 

[crxess]

You guys are so funny! There will still be vaping, as Big Tobacco has their hand in it. Our gear is not illegal, it just won't be able to be sold. So, do as I did, I bought rebuildable atomizers and only mods that had removable batteries, and enough nicotine base to last 5 years, or 10 if I cut my juice down to 3mg! We will still be able to buy wire, cotton, and batteries.
I did all the advocating I thought would work. We lost the battle, but not all is lost. At the very least, we can take the juice out of the cartridges they WILL sell us. And maybe by then, someone will have got their gear or juice approved.

It is nice to dream...........no?

BT would have no problem slamming every e-cig venture to a screeching halt if they can accomplish 2007 deeming. Who do you thing was complicit in writing the original regulation?
But.......dream on. 30ml of dripped from cartridge e-liquid would only run about $250.
Most cartridges only held 6 drops and would only release 4 into vapor.
Average cost was $10 for 5 carts. After government intervention. 5 carts with taxes should hit $20-$30

 

[CMD-Ky]

I know an easier way, abolish insurance.

I agree.
If people had to pay directly for medical care then the cost of medical care would drop like a rock. The frills in offices and hospitals would disappear and Fords would populate the doctor's parking lots rather than BMW's. Hospitals have tempurpedic mattresses, walnut desks, more suits than nurse uniforms and astronomical administration costs.
Do you care what medical care costs while someone else pays the majority of the tab? No, you just pay your co-pay, complain about insurance company rates and move quietly on.
Health care financing is an interesting but poorly understood economic activity.

 

[bobwho77]

As I posted on another thread, I think that the deeming regulations will ultimately be settled in the courts, where (hopefully) some common sense will prevail.
I see three things happening.
First an injunction postponing enforcement of any new regulations until the court cases are settled.
Second, a ruling saying that the FDA IS within their purview to regulate e-cigs.
Finally, a change in the grandfather date to the date of the regulations final approval.
I think the courts will question the hypocrisy of imposing harsh regulations on vaping, while other forms of NRT have already been approved for OTC sale, and the other ingredients we use (VG/PG) also have safety/approval records going back DECADES. The only problem I see here is some of the ingredients used in flavoring, and artificial colors being used.
I also think that they'll see the folly of trying to put the genie back in the bottle. We've had almost a decade of very rapid development, and innovative design making vaping both more effective at helping smokers quit, and safer as an alternative to traditional cigarettes. An entire industry has grown up around vaping ANY retroactive imposition of premarket approval raises the possibility of literally hundreds of manufacturers seeking approval for tens of thousands of products. The FDA simply isn't going to be able to handle that kind of volume of applications, and they KNOW it. Their own internal communications admit that they expect up to 90% of them to just GO AWAY. ANY judge will see this as intentionally placing unnecessarily burdensome regulations, and causing undue harm.
Meanwhile, the lobbying of Congress continues.
I'm still anxious about the outcome, but I don't see quite as much reason to panic, yet

 

[WillyZee]

As I posted on another thread, I think that the deeming regulations will ultimately be settled in the courts, where (hopefully) some common sense will prevail.
I see three things happening.
First an injunction postponing enforcement of any new regulations until the court cases are settled.
Second, a ruling saying that the FDA IS within their purview to regulate e-cigs.
Finally, a change in the grandfather date to the date of the regulations final approval.
I think the courts will question the hypocrisy of imposing harsh regulations on vaping, while other forms of NRT have already been approved for OTC sale, and the other ingredients we use (VG/PG) also have safety/approval records going back DECADES. The only problem I see here is some of the ingredients used in flavoring, and artificial colors being used.
I also think that they'll see the folly of trying to put the genie back in the bottle. We've had almost a decade of very rapid development, and innovative design making vaping both more effective at helping smokers quit, and safer as an alternative to traditional cigarettes. An entire industry has grown up around vaping ANY retroactive imposition of premarket approval raises the possibility of literally hundreds of manufacturers seeking approval for tens of thousands of products. The FDA simply isn't going to be able to handle that kind of volume of applications, and they KNOW it. Their own internal communications admit that they expect up to 90% of them to just GO AWAY. ANY judge will see this as intentionally placing unnecessarily burdensome regulations, and causing undue harm.
Meanwhile, the lobbying of Congress continues.
I'm still anxious about the outcome, but I don't see quite as much reason to panic, yet

IMO, they don't care about those few who have stockpiled some nicotine ... they know that will run out within 10 years.

they are going after the smokers, past and future smokers

Nicotine base will be extremely hard to get, if not impossible ... eJuice alone will be hard to get because most vendors will be out of business ... this is all about tax revenue ... and nothing will stop them from hijacking vaping.

To the FDA and BT ... innovation is not in the form of 200watt box mods

What is coming within 2 years, is heavy regulations that are going to hand vaping over to BT and a few companies like NJOY.

This is what they call vaping innovation

 

[CMD-Ky]

You have far more confidence in courts and judges than do I. Federal judges are not made in heaven but in smokey back rooms like most politicians. They are put forward by a politician, nominated by a politician and then confirmed by politicians. Place not your faith and hope in humans who sit above you clad in shapeless black dresses.

As I posted on another thread, I think that the deeming regulations will ultimately be settled in the courts, where (hopefully) some common sense will prevail.
I see three things happening.
First an injunction postponing enforcement of any new regulations until the court cases are settled.
Second, a ruling saying that the FDA IS within their purview to regulate e-cigs.
Finally, a change in the grandfather date to the date of the regulations final approval.
I think the courts will question the hypocrisy of imposing harsh regulations on vaping, while other forms of NRT have already been approved for OTC sale, and the other ingredients we use (VG/PG) also have safety/approval records going back DECADES. The only problem I see here is some of the ingredients used in flavoring, and artificial colors being used.
I also think that they'll see the folly of trying to put the genie back in the bottle. We've had almost a decade of very rapid development, and innovative design making vaping both more effective at helping smokers quit, and safer as an alternative to traditional cigarettes. An entire industry has grown up around vaping ANY retroactive imposition of premarket approval raises the possibility of literally hundreds of manufacturers seeking approval for tens of thousands of products. The FDA simply isn't going to be able to handle that kind of volume of applications, and they KNOW it. Their own internal communications admit that they expect up to 90% of them to just GO AWAY. ANY judge will see this as intentionally placing unnecessarily burdensome regulations, and causing undue harm.
Meanwhile, the lobbying of Congress continues.
I'm still anxious about the outcome, but I don't see quite as much reason to panic, yet