all its going to do is kill the small guys and open a huge black market.....really .... im stocking up a huge supply got 500 ml nic today
trying to find a gal of 100mg now
trying to find a gal of 100mg now
The end of the Provari??? 95% WA state tax!
- Thread starter brickfollett
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Here ya go!
Wholesale Nicotine Solution for eLiquid Heartlandvapes Wholesale
It's good quality too. I'm vaping it now.
I'd order a gallon but I already have a 6-7 year supply (at current vaping levels) in my freezer. If I gradually cut down (as I'm planning to) it should last well beyond that.
This 95% tax is CRAZY, and it is only a matter of time till Canada starts doing the same thing . However it did make me go buy a second Provari today even before my first one has arrived . Better safe than sorry .
Very nice. I'm considering getting a second one too. If the bill passes, the tax won't go into effect til later, like July. I'll have enough time to save up. I have a standard silver with Red LEDs, I might have to go for a colored mini with blue LED's though
Will wonders never cease! Washington vaping businesses have at long last drug their heads out of the sand and their targeted butts out of the air to form a trade association. The bad news is that appears as though the lobbyist has found something in the bill that is worse than we thought. 
This article gets the vapers' side of the story out and it is in a publication geared towards Washington state legislators. It is the type of press that a trade association which can hire professional public relations and lobbying firms can generate, As Vapers Organize, Legislature Scrambles to Impose New E-Cig Tax Compromise Proposal Even Higher Than the Original - Plan Emerging in House Would Quadruple Price of Vaping Could Snuff Fast-Growing Smoking Alternative
...
An early proposal would have imposed a 95 percent tax. Now, in a bid to pick up votes, a new proposal being floated in the 2014 Legislatures final days aims to cut that in half. But in the rush to draft a bill it appears that sponsors missed a key detail and instead of cutting the proposed tax, they tripled it.
I think clearly it shows they dont understand the industry, says lobbyist Stu Halsan, who represents the newly formed Washington Vapes trade association an organization of vape-shop owners and manufacturers formed in frantic haste in recent weeks when it became clear lawmakers would attempt some sort of move against the business.
...
Should lawmakers impose a tax so punitive that it would wipe out the business just as it is taking hold? A business that seems to be accomplishing what generations of government anti-smoking campaigns have not? These are the kinds of questions that shouldnt be decided in a rush, says state Rep. .... Muri, R-Steilacoom, one of the Legislatures biggest vape-biz boosters.
...
Then theres the fact that no one has demonstrated harm. Muri, who appeared at the rally, says that as a member of the Pierce County Board of Health he initially wanted to regulate vaping out of business, but he had second thoughts when he began researching the issue. Nicotine is perhaps a little more harmful than caffeine, he says which is to say, not very. Smoking itself has been a huge harm to society; the nicotine was never the thing that was harmful. Ive seen some analyses that say vaping is less than 1 percent of the harm of cigarette smoking. We need to promote it, to get people to quit the really bad habit, which is smoking.
There is a bit of the protect the children drivel but is well worth clicking through to read the entire story.
This article gets the vapers' side of the story out and it is in a publication geared towards Washington state legislators. It is the type of press that a trade association which can hire professional public relations and lobbying firms can generate, As Vapers Organize, Legislature Scrambles to Impose New E-Cig Tax Compromise Proposal Even Higher Than the Original - Plan Emerging in House Would Quadruple Price of Vaping Could Snuff Fast-Growing Smoking Alternative
...
An early proposal would have imposed a 95 percent tax. Now, in a bid to pick up votes, a new proposal being floated in the 2014 Legislatures final days aims to cut that in half. But in the rush to draft a bill it appears that sponsors missed a key detail and instead of cutting the proposed tax, they tripled it.
I think clearly it shows they dont understand the industry, says lobbyist Stu Halsan, who represents the newly formed Washington Vapes trade association an organization of vape-shop owners and manufacturers formed in frantic haste in recent weeks when it became clear lawmakers would attempt some sort of move against the business.
...
Should lawmakers impose a tax so punitive that it would wipe out the business just as it is taking hold? A business that seems to be accomplishing what generations of government anti-smoking campaigns have not? These are the kinds of questions that shouldnt be decided in a rush, says state Rep. .... Muri, R-Steilacoom, one of the Legislatures biggest vape-biz boosters.
...
Then theres the fact that no one has demonstrated harm. Muri, who appeared at the rally, says that as a member of the Pierce County Board of Health he initially wanted to regulate vaping out of business, but he had second thoughts when he began researching the issue. Nicotine is perhaps a little more harmful than caffeine, he says which is to say, not very. Smoking itself has been a huge harm to society; the nicotine was never the thing that was harmful. Ive seen some analyses that say vaping is less than 1 percent of the harm of cigarette smoking. We need to promote it, to get people to quit the really bad habit, which is smoking.
There is a bit of the protect the children drivel but is well worth clicking through to read the entire story.
I wish I was in a position to vote for Muri. He is the kind of person we need to be in office. The kind to create policy based on knowledge and logic rather than greed and emotion.
Luckily for you, you can drive across the river and buy your stuff in Portland. Perhaps even setup a PO box there and have stuff shipped there as well to avoid the tax. It would be quite the hassle, but if it saves you money until this gets reversed, it might be worth looking into.
If it's not a tax recoup plan to offset future Big Tobacco tax losses and settlement revenues, then Big Pharma is likely somewhere inside this push. Nicotine replacement products have to be losing ground as people quit using ecigs instead of nicotine lozenges and inhalers.
95% or even 75% is committing Hari-Kari on future REASONABLE electronic cigarette taxes. Why try to kill an industry when you can just tax the juice and atomizers like cigarettes and create a never ending revenue stream?
ETA: The article below sums up the thinking of Washington state politicians. They levied huge taxes on tobacco cigarettes a few years ago and enjoyed tens of millions of dollars each year to boost state education funding. Smokers are quitting and many are migrating to electronic cigarettes, so the tax is being expanded to maintain the income stream.
State House Bill Proposes 95% Tax on E-Cigs, Same Rate as Tobacco Cigarettes | Washington Focus
95% or even 75% is committing Hari-Kari on future REASONABLE electronic cigarette taxes. Why try to kill an industry when you can just tax the juice and atomizers like cigarettes and create a never ending revenue stream?
ETA: The article below sums up the thinking of Washington state politicians. They levied huge taxes on tobacco cigarettes a few years ago and enjoyed tens of millions of dollars each year to boost state education funding. Smokers are quitting and many are migrating to electronic cigarettes, so the tax is being expanded to maintain the income stream.
State House Bill Proposes 95% Tax on E-Cigs, Same Rate as Tobacco Cigarettes | Washington Focus
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I imagine big tobacco and the pharma community have both had their lobbyists working hard to curb the e-cig world. It has to be costing both a small fortune. The state and federal taxes are suffering as well so in the end it all comes down to money. Sadly there is no consideration for the well being of the citizens.
From OP:
Received a reply from the third representative
Brian Dansel:
Dear Bryce,
I appreciate your diligence on contacting me and other legislators in opposition to this bill. I know that there are still difficult times ahead of us, but hearing your feedback helps me better represent you as we work to navigate those challenges.
I understand your frustrations and will do what I can to protect my constituents.
Sincerely,
Senator Brian Dansel
7th Legislative District
Brian.Dansel@leg.wa.gov
Phone: (360) 786-7612
Not sure if this is a for or against stance. I emailed back for clarification to see what his vote may be should the bill pass before him.
My district is a solid 2 against the tax and 1 maybe right now. Us WA state vapers should send emails to their reps and share the replies so we can get an estimate as to the likelihood of this passing
Received a reply from the third representative
Brian Dansel:
Dear Bryce,
I appreciate your diligence on contacting me and other legislators in opposition to this bill. I know that there are still difficult times ahead of us, but hearing your feedback helps me better represent you as we work to navigate those challenges.
I understand your frustrations and will do what I can to protect my constituents.
Sincerely,
Senator Brian Dansel
7th Legislative District
Brian.Dansel@leg.wa.gov
Phone: (360) 786-7612
Not sure if this is a for or against stance. I emailed back for clarification to see what his vote may be should the bill pass before him.
My district is a solid 2 against the tax and 1 maybe right now. Us WA state vapers should send emails to their reps and share the replies so we can get an estimate as to the likelihood of this passing
Doubt it. Lets hope not. I've ordered stuff besides e cigarettes from other states and have been subject to whatever taxes were imposed. I'm not sure if it was an online sales tax or something, but it was unusual. Those ordering stuff from washington I.E. Provari/MBV would be subject to the tax, or the price increases because of the taxes
Have any of you noticed it's usually the left wing nut jobs driving this NONSENSE????? Washington, California, New York, just saying.......
Here's a novel idea, VOTE next time based on the guys beliefs and convictions rather than what party he is from. I have an uncle from massachusetts that would vote for ant eater if he was wearing a suit and was a dem.This is why our country is in the shape it's in.
It is 100% due to loss of MSA money and lowered tax income on tobacco.
Big Pharma and Big Tobacco are mere beneficiaries.
BT will sit and wait and let all these states laws pass, knowing full well there is no scientific justification. Once all the competitors are wiped from the market, BT will get their high priced lawyers into every state and challenge the legality of the tax and get it overturned.
BT will then be free to hawk their own e-cigs free from competition and free from the taxes that shut down all their competitors.
Big Pharma and Big Tobacco are mere beneficiaries.
BT will sit and wait and let all these states laws pass, knowing full well there is no scientific justification. Once all the competitors are wiped from the market, BT will get their high priced lawyers into every state and challenge the legality of the tax and get it overturned.
BT will then be free to hawk their own e-cigs free from competition and free from the taxes that shut down all their competitors.
Said brickfollett,
Such a ban is unconstitutional. But that doesn't keep your legislators from passing unconstitutional laws: the attitude seems to be, "let's throw this against the wall and see if it sticks" rather than respecting the Constitution of the United States. And they're fully aware that effectively there is zero recourse. Therefore, the U.S. Constitution in Washington State had might as well be so much Silly Putty. As I pointed out in post #44 of taxation fears:
Were I to be arrested in Washington State for violating this law, there's lots of grounds for appeal of your interstate prohibition of tobacco shipments law, on both state and federal levels:
I don't mean to pick on Washington State in particular: most if not all states have equally unconstitutional laws on the books. And there's no effective recourse against any of them: invariably, you're better off taking your lumps, then slinking home, tail between your legs.
But you'd better believe I wouldn't be caught dead in Washington State. We have friends who live there — our policy has been that they can come to visit us.
Such a ban is unconstitutional. But that doesn't keep your legislators from passing unconstitutional laws: the attitude seems to be, "let's throw this against the wall and see if it sticks" rather than respecting the Constitution of the United States. And they're fully aware that effectively there is zero recourse. Therefore, the U.S. Constitution in Washington State had might as well be so much Silly Putty. As I pointed out in post #44 of taxation fears:
Were I to be arrested in Washington State for violating this law, there's lots of grounds for appeal of your interstate prohibition of tobacco shipments law, on both state and federal levels:
- First and foremost, the law clearly violates the Interstate Commerce Clause in Article I of the U.S. Constitution.
- This was a shipment via first class mail, which by federal law at the time was not subject to seizure.
- Even if federal law regarding first class mail shipment hadn't been obeyed, no warrant for seizure was ever issued, as far as my buddy could determine. Furthermore, it was a state grunt doing the seizure, not a postal inspector. Therefore, the sole evidence against me was "poisoned fruit" and thus inadmissible in court.
- But there would have been no court trial in finding me guilty of a serious misdemeanor. The law deemed the health department as judge, jury and executioner. ("Due process? We don't need no steenkin' due process!")
I don't mean to pick on Washington State in particular: most if not all states have equally unconstitutional laws on the books. And there's no effective recourse against any of them: invariably, you're better off taking your lumps, then slinking home, tail between your legs.
But you'd better believe I wouldn't be caught dead in Washington State. We have friends who live there — our policy has been that they can come to visit us.
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Unfortunetly, this legislation as currently drafted is a WHOLSALE tax as pointed out by a VERY very smart vaper in this thread named @peraspera. In it's current state the legislation says, ProVape pays 75% Tax on it's INVENTORY and then understandably WE ALL PAY (ALL OF US) more for our ProVaris. This is NOT a point of sale tax as currently drafted. IF and that's a BIG if ProVape were to relocate it's manufacturing/production facilities to another state then the way I read it the 75% tax no longer applies. That's a bit of a simplification but hopefully I explained it enough. IMHO, doubtfull that ProVape would ever do this. Net net is our ProVaris would then sell new for somewhere in the range of $400 as long as ProVape remains in Washington.
EDIT: Forgot to mention I own two ProVaris and ecigexpress is a HUGE player in the DIY world and is one of my go to vendors. They also have B&Ms in Washington. Finally and respectfully, "THE TAX MAN" in Washington doesn't have to worry about controlling and or enforcing Internet sales since the entire inventory is taxed at the wholesale level and that's where they get their 75%. BEFORE Internet sales.
HTH
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friday im ordering a liter of 100mg that should last some time..lol i got 500ml of 36mg today have 100ml of 24mg ordered 100ml of some heavenly tobacco 6mg..this is so tasty.. should be good for a good year..well the heavenly tobacco wont..lol can always order wire and flavorings if its all gotta be loranns..yuk
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