GG AFS for GGTS prototype initial impressions

[clyde2801]

Turns out the deep cleaning was just what ol' #61 needed. Firing up like a champion again. No sending off for repair, or ordering replacement parts. Thank God.

I have to clean my GGTS's so infrequently that I sometimes forget that it's an occasional necessity. I contrast this with the xhaler that I bought used; it needed the noalox reapplied every two or three days to work. I couldn't imagine taking that on a long car drive.

Still time to pick up my documents and head downtown for the morning. Maybe it's not going to be such a bad day after all.

 

[Ast_Isis]

Clyde, I hope your day goes well and that you do find at least a little time to unwind.

I know what you mean about cleaning the GGTS. It so rarely needs a good cleaning it becomes easy to forget that it is needed at all. (I am guilty also)

 

[clyde2801]

Got the silver telescoping thread in my 'old' ggts....

Doesn't look too bad.

 

[clyde2801]

Stopped by to visit with my friend Sterno down the street to share some secrets, etc.

Still in love with his Reo, Scott's jumped head first into HV vaping, and was telling me about his experiences with HV attys from ikenvape. We were swapping some batteries, and he's been needing 3.7v cr 123's. He loves the hv attys, but in his opinion, they need at least 7.2v for them to work at full strength.

Best of all, he has a 901 that he's not too crazy about, vastly preferring the 801s to it.

Realizing that I haven't tried a 'stock' (i.e., non imeo atty) with the AVS, and have some 3.7 IMR cr123's that have burned cartos in the afs and scorch juice with a i6 atty, I did some horse swappin'.

It looks like a regular 901 atty does indeed work in the AVS, or at least in my Grande. The HV atty is also apparently holding up to the two IMR cr 123's.

The regular 901 appears to run drier than the custom made iattys and perforated cartridges. This can be solved by infrequent primer puffs when the vape starts to taste dry, and/or dialing down the control ring to allow less air and more liquid. In addition, Rob at vaporkings has suggested drilling out the air inlet hole of a regular 901 atty to solve this problem on the AVS.

There was also a pleasant surprise in store as well. The outside of the AVS has remained absolutely bone dry so far. In using cartos and iattys on the Grande, minor seepage or leakage has been endemic to the point that I've become entirely used to having my vaping hand a touch damp when using it.
Taste appears to be a little drier as well.

The use of the HV901 affects the vaping characteristics of the Grande to almost make it a different mod. But I can't say with certainty that, despite using better batteries than the tenergy lifepo4s and not suffering from leaks, that it is an improvement over 6v cartos. Primer puffs and a drier taste to boot somewhat diminish my joy over this discovery. The relative dryness of the vape makes me think that it will torch attys quickly, especially if the tank is allowed to get fairly low. And at 7.4v, this is NOT the fog machine that I expected, though it is getting a (too) large amount of nicotine into my bloodstream. Whew, time to put the laptop down for a bit soon.

May have to order some-what I am told are-reasonably priced spare attys from Ikenvape and take the dremel to them when I get some spare time and money. But be warned, it looks like neither one will happen anytime soon.

 

[clyde2801]

Well, the Grande with regular 901 atty did have one small leak later on. But it's still an improvement over iattys and perforated cartos in that respect.

BTW, is anyone with a production AVS having any leaking issues?

 

[clyde2801]

Discretion being the better part of valor be damned. Bit of a light work load today, so I decided to stay home a bit this morning and mow my yard before it got to 100 degrees or worse.

So, I pulled out the dremel and decided to enlarge the hole on the regular and hv 901's non iattys that I still own. More on that in a moment.

As I had earlier reported, the Grande started leaking after an hour or two of use when it had previously stayed bone dry. But while disassembling it, I couldn't help but notice that it had worked loose on its battery connection fitting. I can't say why, maybe unscrewing the top in one piece to refill it is working it off of its fitting. I drilled the attys and used a cup towel to screw them as tightly onto the fittings as I could by hand.

We'll see if a) the hole enlargement will feed more liquid into the attys to reduce the burnt taste and b) if the atty working loose is causing the leaks/seepage. If so, I'll have to remember to screw the top on and off in two pieces, or try to retighten the atty when I refill.

By the way, again, is anyone having any leaking/seepage issues with the production AVS?

 

[tonyorion]

At over a $100 + the adaptor (around $40), I would expect this thing to work perfectly. From what I have read on other forums, there appear to be some issues with leaking, maintenance and assembly after cleaning. If nothing else, this thing is finicky, and there is no money back guarantee.
While I (and anybody else who vapes) would love to have an automatic feed, it is not my intention to fund his R&D project with my money.
With kids and television blaring in the background, his video does not convince me that he has the professionalism to stay with and support his product.

 

[Rippspeed]

Clyde;
At first I had issues with liquid leaking from the adjustable draw ports but after adjusting where the top o-rings sat. Its leak free, I currently have a HV 901 atty in the AVS. Because I think my first i6 atty finally gave in today. I left it at home to dry out...

I had issues with the HV 901 leaking alot of the liquid into the collection tank because I hadnt close the top cap yet. I dont know but I'll be ordering some more i6 atty because they seem to work perfect for me with the AVS and the AFS ...

I didnt really have any issues with putting the GGTS together maybe because I'm more mechanical than other people. And I did totally dissect the unit before putting it together and vaping on it ...

 

[clyde2801]

Good to hear you've vanquished your minor issues with the real AVS, Rippspeed.

And again, I'm using the 'Grande', a earlier prototype of the AVS, not the production model. Imeo's supposedly made a few tweaks to the real one that mine doesn't have.

I'll have to get with Sterno and see exactly which one was used. I was in a real hurry with a lot on my plate and met with him. I seem to remember 5.4 ohm, and that 6v just really cutting it for him on these attys. That's why I presumed it was VHV or UHV, whatever. It will also stand up to 7.4v on my Grande when the i6 iattys or regular perforated cartos wouldn't.

I think my next step will be to either try LR 901's with a single 18650 battery or try to sweet talk Imeo into getting me the super secret, not for regular consumption extension piece that will allow two 18650 batteries in tandem.

And tonyorion, to a certain degree ALL 3rd gens have issues, design flaws, learning curves, etc. The only one that looked like it didn't was a german box mod that used a medical equipment micro pump to supply precisely the right amount of juice to the atty with each press of the button. The pump alone cost over $100, and even that depended on getting the juice viscosity exactly right.

The v2, or All Mods, version of the AFS had just about zero leaking or seepage issues with cartos, but it was relatively a PITA to assemble and disassemble.

 

[tonyorion]

Clyde,

Everyone's dream is to have a large reservoir of juice which is easy to use. I just tossed some mega carts/attys for the Tornado/eGo because the taste was terrible, and no mod was able to make it work.

In some ways, this industry parallels the development of the PC. Windows was a kludge because it was to layer seamlessly on top of MS-DOS. Every mod that people come up with for the e cig is a kludge because designers are forced to build around the heart of the system-the atty which is a mass produced tiny cylinder that does not offer you a lot of design options.

The fact of life is that the marketplace wants vaporizers that look and feel like cigarettes, although that is starting to change: Chucks, Screwdrivers, SilverBullets, etc.

My personal belief is that the next big breakthrough will come from someone who starts out with an absolutely clean sheet of paper to design a superior nicotine inhaler.

My fear is that the design will not come from a clever individual, but from the drug industry which will ruthlessly exploit regulation to introduce a nicotine inhaler as a substitute for smoking.

When one looks at all of the mods out there, there are health concerns. We are shoving PVC, styrene, polyester, polyurethane into our carts, and these are toxic when burnt or melted. There is absolutely no control over the juices we inhale; there is just the manufacturers' word.

The drug companies will have no problem getting the FDA to regulate ecigs as nicotine inhalers. It would not surprise me to find out that the drug industry has already completed studies and has products waiting. Why would J&J, an American company, choose the UK to get its nicotine inhaler certified as a medical device? When the move for regulation does start, it will catch this industry totally unprepared.

I hope that nobody starts a tirade against government control, the avarice of corporations, the known dangers of tobacco smoke, etc. You are preaching to the choir.

Regulation will come, sooner or later. When it does come, the nicotine inhaler will probably not look like anything out there right now; it will certainly end up costing a lot more regardless of what it looks like.

 

[clyde2801]

Clyde,

Everyone's dream is to have a large reservoir of juice which is easy to use. I just tossed some mega carts/attys for the Tornado/eGo because the taste was terrible, and no mod was able to make it work.

In some ways, this industry parallels the development of the PC. Windows was a kludge because it was to layer seamlessly on top of MS-DOS. Every mod that people come up with for the e cig is a kludge because designers are forced to build around the heart of the system-the atty which is a mass produced tiny cylinder that does not offer you a lot of design options.

The fact of life is that the marketplace wants vaporizers that look and feel like cigarettes, although that is starting to change: Chucks, Screwdrivers, SilverBullets, etc.

My personal belief is that the next big breakthrough will come from someone who starts out with an absolutely clean sheet of paper to design a superior nicotine inhaler.

My fear is that the design will not come from a clever individual, but from the drug industry which will ruthlessly exploit regulation to introduce a nicotine inhaler as a substitute for smoking.

When one looks at all of the mods out there, there are health concerns. We are shoving PVC, styrene, polyester, polyurethane into our carts, and these are toxic when burnt or melted. There is absolutely no control over the juices we inhale; there is just the manufacturers' word.

The drug companies will have no problem getting the FDA to regulate ecigs as nicotine inhalers. It would not surprise me to find out that the drug industry has already completed studies and has products waiting. Why would J&J, an American company, choose the UK to get its nicotine inhaler certified as a medical device? When the move for regulation does start, it will catch this industry totally unprepared.

I hope that nobody starts a tirade against government control, the avarice of corporations, the known dangers of tobacco smoke, etc. You are preaching to the choir.

Regulation will come, sooner or later. When it does come, the nicotine inhaler will probably not look like anything out there right now; it will certainly end up costing a lot more regardless of what it looks like.

If Big Pharma gets involved, they'll make inhalers using teams of engineers and et cetera. Doubtlessly the cost will go up, hopefully those designs would be breakthroughs. Maybe they'll be covered by insurance.

You're probably right about Big Government stepping in eventually. Right now, we're flying under the radar; but that will change if enough attention and money is at risk. Whenever a good thing gets going, you can always count on government or big money to come in and screw it up.

I hear what you're saying about us being on the fringe of safety regulations, using untested materials, etc. I'm just not too comforted by FDA regulation, either. Yet, a lot of us have been hitting these things pretty heavy, some for months or a couple of years. If one person's health or life was effected by vaping, you can bet your sweet that the news media would be all over it, followed by the government.

And I can't say if a GG is right for you any more than I can state that a Toyota or Chevy is. Despite their inconveniences and minor flaws, I like the AFS, and love the GGTS, for the reasons spelled out in my reviews. YMMV.

 

[clyde2801]

The VHV atty has been leaking like a sieve on one of my Grandes, while the regular 901 has been relatively bone dry, except it's leading on the inside in the battery compartment.

Haven't been able to mess with them much yet to see what the problem is. May not get a chance to for a bit; Mom's back in town (along with Big Sis and nieces and nephews), and we're getting ready to move her. But right now I'm really frakkin' frustrated.

I may have to try mixing my straight PG with some VG to see if it's a viscosity problem, chinese PG may be too thin. I'll send imeo a pm to get his input, maybe start a AVS tips and tricks thread in the gg forum; the AVS is close enough to the Grande that I might be able to use any info in there.

For now, I'm taking the Carlos Juice Box, sticking a 6ml (reo) bottle in it filled with some super vanilla mix concocted by Sterno (thanks, buddy!). The 6ml bottle should have been included instead of the bulkier 10ml, IMHO.

Ah, the irony. The CJB, which was initially an unreliable PITA, has become my dependable break glass in case of emergency vape, while my GG's will be sitting in a drawer for probably the next few days.

 

[clyde2801]

Well, some quick PMs with Imeo came up with the suggestion to stick a blue foam disc around the air inlet holes in the collection tank of the Grande. v2 or All Mods users will recognize this as a solution or workaround to solving leaking in that mod.

We'll see if it works, or if it at least keeps juice from leaking down into the battery compartment. I did this on the AM before switching to cartos (which itself fixed the leaking/seepage problem), but thought it adversely affected the quantity and taste of the vape. We'll see if the same happens in that mod.

 

[clyde2801]

Okay, going to briefly try the UHV 901 (non iatty) in the Grande with a blue foam disk in the collector tank. (Though it does kind of feel like a battered spouse going back to a slightly abusive relationship. )

Left it sitting yesterday upright while taking the CJB out of town. So far, no wet batteries. Uh, yea?

Bit of dampness on the outside, equivalent to grasping the Grande with moist hands.* I'll have to see if it persists, but it is manageable. Taste is good, and vape is okay. But again, I was expecting to use up the USA's carbon credits at 7.4v.

I'll keep using this atty for now, if only to see how long a non imeo atty will last at this voltage. Same for the 3.7v version of it. Who knows, if I can get a month or more of UHV vaping out of a 8 UDS atty and just have a little occasional moistness, I may overcome my reluctance about this setup.

Next, it will be time to try a 6v iatty and a perforated carto with the grandes using blue foam to see how they perform. I'm hoping the blue foam will stop the dampness on those setups without affecting the taste or vape. Again, I love the emontyed cartos due to their ability to go from great 6v to adequate 3.7v vaping on the fly.

Imeo mentioned to me that the collector tank pin is a bit too short, which is allowing juice into the battery compartment. Yes, I know the Grande isn't being sold to the public, but it was going to be before the outcry about its size caused him to redesign it into its current production design. Thank God for the people I initially considered to be whiners and crybabies. If the Grande in its current form would have been sold to hundreds of people for 80USD or more, I'd bet there would be a whole lot of unhappy folks right about now.

And I'll be keeping an eye on the GG forums to see if there's any problems with the AVS in the meanwhile. So far, except for one person breaking off the thinner threaded portion off of one of the tanks, there's not a peep. Good. As much as my ego wants me to be the only person walking around vaping a prototype, I'll probably have to break down and buy the production version once my cash flow improves a bit.

*I know it's tempting, but please let it go.

 

[clyde2801]

No noticeable difference with respect to the blue foamed grandes. Occasional drop of juice on the outside of the one with the uhv 901 atty. Reg 901 seems a lot drier, too bad its a much less satisfying vape.

And, no juice on the insides of the ggts's proper. Good. I'm thinking a juice leak either caused or accelerated my ts's malfunction with a carto last weekend. Nothing more annoying than having a vape go out on you in the middle of a long trip.

 

[clyde2801]

Okay, 3.7v regular atty with foam around the base of the collector tank, and a small foam ring around the inlet hole of the atty in the avs tank itself.

Leaking reduced somewhat when used with the imr 18650 battery. Nice taste, slightly disappointing vape volume wise. No dampness in the battery compartment.

Now here's where it starts to get interesting. I took out the 18650 and threw in two 3v lion cr123's for 6v instead. No leaking, no burnt taste, and no leaking or seepage so far. Nice little HV action off of a 3.7 901 atty. Vaping some grape 80/20 blend which easily burns, and it tastes pretty good. Assuming I don't pop the atty, this isn't a bad setup at all.

I'm only twenty minutes into this, so I'm not going to do the Snoopy dance just yet. I'm guessing that the blue foam around the atty would hold onto juice, so it would have to be removed and washed out when changing flavors. But I'm guessing the blue foam is somehow wicking enough juice into the atty to keep the 6v from frying the 3.7 atty but NOT enough to flood it at the same time.

Getting throat tickling HV action and tasty vape out of a relatively cheap 3.7v 901 atty also appeals to the penurious part of my personality. And like a perforated carto, it can handle 3.7v in a pinch.

Hmm. I'll have to play with this mod for a bit.

 

[VPDownunder]

If a 3.7v 901 atty works at 6v without popping maybe a HV 901 would hold up at 7.4?

 

[clyde2801]

The UHV 901 has worked so far, but the vape has been lacking. I'm going to blue foam the inlet hole along with the bottom of the collector tank to see how that affects it.

 

[clyde2801]

Well, crap. It looks like the 3.7 901 quit working on me. I don't know if I'll have enough time to do proper testing and dissection before I leave for work. No Snoopy dance for Clyde today.

On the other hand, the UHV 901 is really kicking into high gear. I'm wondering-at the risk of sounding stupid-if it wasn't broken in before now. I think I'll vape this and see how long it lasts. Along with the imr (high drain) cr123's, it's not a bad combination at all.

Hopefully, I'll be able to meet with Sterno soon and see where he got this little puppy from.

I'm wanting to get some LR 901s and see how they work with the 18650 on the Grande. The only place I've found so far is eastmall, but they've got high shipping and a $35 minimum order requirement. I'm not wanting to buy a ton of them since I don't know how they'll work. All day HV vaping on a single battery would be nice, though.

 

[clyde2801]

No chance for 3.7 autopsy so far. May try to manage this morning.

HV non iatty 901 still hanging in there. Blowing impressive amounts of vapor with good taste and nice TH using 24mg juice. No leaks in battery compartment, minimal seepage. (But I still have to wrap it in a napkin before I stick it in a coat pocket.)

BTW, what I call 'seepage' is a little dampness or a drop of two on the outside of the unit. 'Leakage' is if I can see a more than a couple of drops or a rivulet of juice flowing down the side.

It seems that seepage is more of a problem when my tank is full and my batteries are getting low. I'm not sure if this is from juice leaking through the atty because the lowered current is not burning as much of the juice, or because I'm holding the Grande at the wrong angle for a longer time to get a good vape.

I've been advised to try to empty the collector tank 'every hour or two' if leakage or seepage is a problem. Meh. This isn't the easiest thing to do on the go, especially if the outside of the mod has been slickened by juice a little bit. It does detract from the usefulness of the grande as an 'out and about' or 'one and only' mod. If I didn't have such a personal preference of self juicing over squeezing a bottle before vaping, it would probably be relegated to a secondary unit.

I'm still planning to get a LR 901 for my IMR 18650's to see if the combo can become my holy grail of a all day, self juicing HV vape. Until then, I'm using my less favorite juices in the HV 901 to use up my juice supply a bit; I don't want to pay shipping charges to just buy one or three attys. I'll have to also play with blue foam on the iattys; I've only popped one of the five I bought back when I ordered my AFSv2. Granted, I've been using a lot of cartos during that period, but it's still a nice change from my 2nd gen HV vaping days, when I was popping at least one atty a week.

On a positive note, I'm enjoying the battery life of my generic, ebay IMR cr123's. Seems like I can easily get a day's vape out of two sets with some current to spare.

And again, the Grande is not the final release version of the AVS, though it was about to be released before the outcry to make it smaller. I'm told that the center pin in the collector tank of the AVS has been redesigned to mitigate or solve this problem. One of these days, I'm going to get my hands on a proper AVS. I'm curious to see how it compares with the Grande. If it has the vaping characteristics of the Grande without the seepage or leaks, I WILL be doing the extended Snoopy dance.