- Status
After modding (cut larger slits, silicone'd the plastic edge and rinsed under hot water for 2m) Mine works great. Cleans up nicely, flavor is fantastic. The only thing that I don't like is that theres very little TH unless you drag for ... a short 10-count.
I left it (very) full overnight, pit it on the ego first thing this morning, and yum! So, ok, it needs some work. I can live with that. But with a little bit of effort it will work the way it's supposed to (yeah I know, It should have worked like this from the first puff. but whatever, it works now)
I left it (very) full overnight, pit it on the ego first thing this morning, and yum! So, ok, it needs some work. I can live with that. But with a little bit of effort it will work the way it's supposed to (yeah I know, It should have worked like this from the first puff. but whatever, it works now)
To be honest, everything about ecigs are janky.
I have spent way to much money on probably near 20 different battery mods, and every atty / carto design you can think of with exception to the CE2 mods and cartos. I have yet to try any (just bought a map tank from another user here on the forums and it should be here later this week) CE2s but will have my first experience with them later this week.
I mean, its hard for me to recommend a typical ecig starter kit knowing that the batteries are just going to crap out after 3 months of useage. Thats simply not cool. So the next option is to recommend something like the Silver Bullet from altsmoke (which in my opinion is the best ecig out there for beginners) but then I have have to tell them exactly what to order and they look at me with crossed eyes because it doesnt come with everything and for something that actually works really well its going to cost $200+ out of the box for one month worth of vaping.
We are getting to the point with things like the Silver Bullet, GGTS (the AVS/AFS/UFS or whatever he is calling it system however, stay away from), Provari (all three of those I own) and other battery tubes where the stuff with the battery and button portion are pretty much baked and proven working well.
The problem now (and has been for a long time) is, how to get e-liquid to a heating element without flooding it, constantly dripping directly to the element or having to use polyfil (which has to be replaced at a minimum of weekly). A tank is the ideal goal as it allows the user to fill at night before bed, charge the battery, and in the morning, just take the ecig with them for the day.
The CE2's are the first step towards that and unfortunately, as I tell anyone new to ecigs, we are the test group. Expect to spend way to much money for a potentially janky product that may or may not work well out of the box and may or may not last you the first hour, first week, or first month of purchase.
The fact is, I love e-cigs and cell phones (the two things I spend money on or fiddle with every chance I get) but it is going to be hard for me to recommend a completely hassle free ecig setup to anyone.
1. Battery must last all day
2. Good performance
3. No leaking whatsoever
4. Fill once a day with e-liquid (for most people probably 3-4 ml of juice)
5. No syringes, just unscrew and fill and rescrew together
6. Long lasting parts (as in, the only thing that should have to be replaced is e-liquid). Having to order replacement atties or mouthpieces constantly is a huge turn off. Atties should be lasting 3 months. Replacing polyfil isnt fun either. Cartos eventually just stop holding eliquid because the polyfil goes bad (and good luck trying to replace that in a carto).
7. Easily serviceable when repair or maintenance is needed. Yea, kind of mixes with number six but important enough to stress again.
The fact is, there is no ecig that has all of these requirements and as such, its hard for me to recommend them to anyone and when I do, I always give the disclaimer, we are the guinea pigs so expect some jank - its unavoidable.
I just recently bought the Ego-T tanks. Wow, as a starter kit, do they really expect a new user to want to take one of these apart so they can fix the wick (I wont go thru the process but its a PITA). Mine had no flavor (tasted like umm...a burning marshmellow is probably the best I can describe) for the first two days. I started scouring the interwebs for info and found out its a bad wick design and how to fix it. Great. Since I spent $50 on 2 tank atties and 5 tanks and an adapter, you better believe I was going to figure this out. Most however would have said screw it and walked away chalking it up to a learning experience and never to try ecigs again.
I have spent way to much money on probably near 20 different battery mods, and every atty / carto design you can think of with exception to the CE2 mods and cartos. I have yet to try any (just bought a map tank from another user here on the forums and it should be here later this week) CE2s but will have my first experience with them later this week.
I mean, its hard for me to recommend a typical ecig starter kit knowing that the batteries are just going to crap out after 3 months of useage. Thats simply not cool. So the next option is to recommend something like the Silver Bullet from altsmoke (which in my opinion is the best ecig out there for beginners) but then I have have to tell them exactly what to order and they look at me with crossed eyes because it doesnt come with everything and for something that actually works really well its going to cost $200+ out of the box for one month worth of vaping.
We are getting to the point with things like the Silver Bullet, GGTS (the AVS/AFS/UFS or whatever he is calling it system however, stay away from), Provari (all three of those I own) and other battery tubes where the stuff with the battery and button portion are pretty much baked and proven working well.
The problem now (and has been for a long time) is, how to get e-liquid to a heating element without flooding it, constantly dripping directly to the element or having to use polyfil (which has to be replaced at a minimum of weekly). A tank is the ideal goal as it allows the user to fill at night before bed, charge the battery, and in the morning, just take the ecig with them for the day.
The CE2's are the first step towards that and unfortunately, as I tell anyone new to ecigs, we are the test group. Expect to spend way to much money for a potentially janky product that may or may not work well out of the box and may or may not last you the first hour, first week, or first month of purchase.
The fact is, I love e-cigs and cell phones (the two things I spend money on or fiddle with every chance I get) but it is going to be hard for me to recommend a completely hassle free ecig setup to anyone.
1. Battery must last all day
2. Good performance
3. No leaking whatsoever
4. Fill once a day with e-liquid (for most people probably 3-4 ml of juice)
5. No syringes, just unscrew and fill and rescrew together
6. Long lasting parts (as in, the only thing that should have to be replaced is e-liquid). Having to order replacement atties or mouthpieces constantly is a huge turn off. Atties should be lasting 3 months. Replacing polyfil isnt fun either. Cartos eventually just stop holding eliquid because the polyfil goes bad (and good luck trying to replace that in a carto).
7. Easily serviceable when repair or maintenance is needed. Yea, kind of mixes with number six but important enough to stress again.
The fact is, there is no ecig that has all of these requirements and as such, its hard for me to recommend them to anyone and when I do, I always give the disclaimer, we are the guinea pigs so expect some jank - its unavoidable.
I just recently bought the Ego-T tanks. Wow, as a starter kit, do they really expect a new user to want to take one of these apart so they can fix the wick (I wont go thru the process but its a PITA). Mine had no flavor (tasted like umm...a burning marshmellow is probably the best I can describe) for the first two days. I started scouring the interwebs for info and found out its a bad wick design and how to fix it. Great. Since I spent $50 on 2 tank atties and 5 tanks and an adapter, you better believe I was going to figure this out. Most however would have said screw it and walked away chalking it up to a learning experience and never to try ecigs again.
Well said LW,
Your expectations are spot on. Having said that however, I would point out that this product (PVs) has only been on the market for a short time and is evolving very fast. Why? Because it is a great product. But it has some down sides, so the clever people that see something not to their liking come up with a fix. At the same time we have those who are willing to invest their time and money to bring some of the fixes to market. OH yea we also have the greedy ones that will make and sell pure crap just to make a buck. So yes we are the testers, what's good? What's bad? How can we make this better? We saw a need for higher voltage, then Variable voltage and now for larger liquid storage and some of us came up with the tank design. When the factory saw the popularity of this they wanted to jump on the band wagon (and make a buck). The problem is that they only want to make stuff as cheap as possible, and we only want to buy stuff as cheaply as possible, (In the case of the Giantomizer, their stuff didn't work). Mine does, MAP's does, A lot of the DIY guy's work very well too, but it's kinda like buying a guitar. You can get an OK one from the local music store that was factory made for dirt cheap, Or you can have one custom made. It's all about the money. The far Superior custom made guitar can go for well over $10,000.00. There's not a lot of people going to pay that price just to get a bit better sound. The same is true with e-cigs. You can buy an E-cig kit for less than $100.00 or you can have an PV Artisan build you something that will blow the factory made El-Cheapos away. If your clever and have the tools you can build it yourself but, we should not complain that the El-Cheapo $5.00 tank/atty combo doesn't perform as well as a custom made, hand built work of art does.
Your expectations are spot on. Having said that however, I would point out that this product (PVs) has only been on the market for a short time and is evolving very fast. Why? Because it is a great product. But it has some down sides, so the clever people that see something not to their liking come up with a fix. At the same time we have those who are willing to invest their time and money to bring some of the fixes to market. OH yea we also have the greedy ones that will make and sell pure crap just to make a buck. So yes we are the testers, what's good? What's bad? How can we make this better? We saw a need for higher voltage, then Variable voltage and now for larger liquid storage and some of us came up with the tank design. When the factory saw the popularity of this they wanted to jump on the band wagon (and make a buck). The problem is that they only want to make stuff as cheap as possible, and we only want to buy stuff as cheaply as possible, (In the case of the Giantomizer, their stuff didn't work). Mine does, MAP's does, A lot of the DIY guy's work very well too, but it's kinda like buying a guitar. You can get an OK one from the local music store that was factory made for dirt cheap, Or you can have one custom made. It's all about the money. The far Superior custom made guitar can go for well over $10,000.00. There's not a lot of people going to pay that price just to get a bit better sound. The same is true with e-cigs. You can buy an E-cig kit for less than $100.00 or you can have an PV Artisan build you something that will blow the factory made El-Cheapos away. If your clever and have the tools you can build it yourself but, we should not complain that the El-Cheapo $5.00 tank/atty combo doesn't perform as well as a custom made, hand built work of art does.
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Right, except one major difference - a $100 guitar will still function after 3 months of use.
Ecigs, its a roll of the dice whether they will function even the first hour, regardless of the part.
Ecigs have been on the market in other countries for 3-4 years, I think the US got them 2-3 years ago. I think that should be long enough to cook up a decent product.
The industry standard on warranty / returns is also horrible. The best I have seen so far is probably the Provari or GGTS but even those are janky. The Provari has a one year warranty starting when the product is purchased, not when you get it in the mail. Since the Provari takes 1 month to receive in the mail after date of purchase, you really are only getting an 11 month warranty. And since when should the customer have to pay the shipping on a warranty return?
It has gotten so bad for me personally that every once in a while (once a month or so), I buy a pack of analog Kool 100 cigs or a pack of clove cigs because I get tired of having to fiddle with my ecigs to get the performance I expect out of them. I just want to flick the lighter, sit on my porch and for once, have a hassle free experience. Go figure... Maybe its nuts that I expect so much from an ecig. But then again, if I had spent $100-$300 on any other product, I would expect the damned thing to work.
*shrug*
Ecigs, its a roll of the dice whether they will function even the first hour, regardless of the part.
Ecigs have been on the market in other countries for 3-4 years, I think the US got them 2-3 years ago. I think that should be long enough to cook up a decent product.
The industry standard on warranty / returns is also horrible. The best I have seen so far is probably the Provari or GGTS but even those are janky. The Provari has a one year warranty starting when the product is purchased, not when you get it in the mail. Since the Provari takes 1 month to receive in the mail after date of purchase, you really are only getting an 11 month warranty. And since when should the customer have to pay the shipping on a warranty return?
It has gotten so bad for me personally that every once in a while (once a month or so), I buy a pack of analog Kool 100 cigs or a pack of clove cigs because I get tired of having to fiddle with my ecigs to get the performance I expect out of them. I just want to flick the lighter, sit on my porch and for once, have a hassle free experience. Go figure... Maybe its nuts that I expect so much from an ecig. But then again, if I had spent $100-$300 on any other product, I would expect the damned thing to work.
*shrug*
I agree with you, to some extent.
Battery mods are just that. They all do the same thing. They deliver power to... what I believe... to be a much more important part of an e-cig, a heating element which needs liquid.
This is why I always let out a little smile when I read or watch review on the battery mods. They vape great, they produce tons of vapor, they produce a great throat hit, etc. They really don't do any of that. They just provide power to a heating element. Of course a good one will provide a consistent power level and for as long as possible. It's the heating element and how you get the liquid to it which is much more important. I know, that may not be a very popular opinion. Especially with the amount of money people are spending on battery mods. Sorry guys, it's just how I feel.
I've heard some really good things about the map tanks, yet I have not tried them myself. I believe good things are possible from this mod because, when I modded the Giant with larger wick slots, the performance was good. However, I don't think the average user would want to have something like that on the top of their PV, nor would they want to carry something around that looked like... say... a Darwin.
IMHO the people on this forum, spending all the money on the products, doing the reviews, buying and doing the mods, etc. etc. are not the rule, but rather the exception. I think the average user wants to buy something that looks like a cigarette and just have it work. The average user could probably care less about this website and/or modding. Let's face it, we're fanatics and in addition to vaping being a habit, it has also become a hobby for many of us.
I think the eGo looks enough like a cig and works well enough for the average user. I've had my eGo with 900 mAh batteries for about a year and they have never failed me. Performance is still good. One batt almost gets me through a normal day, but not quite. I know that have 1100mAh batts now, which will probably be my next purchase after my 900s give out.
Recently I've discovered the Boge 510 LR cartos. Before that I was constantly dripping or topping off a PTB cart. The carto lasts a lot longer, provides good vapor, good flavor, good throat hit, and is very easy to refill. It may not be as pure in flavor as direct dripping but for me it's good enough. The other thing I love about these is that they are very cheap. Cheap enough to throw them out rather than cleaning them. Also, cheap enough that I don't mind filling several with different juices which is another HUGE plus for me, cause you can simple unscrew one and screw on another and you don't get and flavor creep.
So, if I had to recommend a kit to a new users, it would be:
eGo kitt with 1100 mAh batteries.
A pack of Boge LR 510 cartos.
A delrin drip tip.
I think this is a good combination of form and function, and won't cost an arm and a leg.
I think the trickier part for a new user is finding a liquid they can live with that gives them everything they need in flavor and throat hit. There is definitely some experimentation that would be required in this space for a new user.
I think this is where the Major break down is with the E2 family of cartomizers. There just not a "Fill n' Vape" item.
You need to fiddle with them. Add PTB or cut a slot wider. Tilt your PV up. CLEAN Before using. Dry burn when they taste bad. One E2 works great. The next one doesn't.
The majority of vapers don't want to go thru all these hoops to get a good hit. They want what analogs did for them. The same, satisfying hit every time. But where the real twist is, when an E2 is Clean and Wicking well, it is the best hit of ANYTHING I have tried. And I have tried them All.
I'm willing to use them and will tolerate all their short comings except leaking. But I have been using them since the R1's first came out and have found for me what works.
Unfortunately, to get to this point, I have had to read about 2 gazillion posts and have had to try about 3 dozen combinations to get to where I'm at now.
Most people will not spend a 1/10th of the time I and others have spent on these damn things. And I don't blame them one bit.
BTW - I thought I had found the perfect setup when I got to an eGo and a Boge Soft Tip carto. Extremly consistent and completely painless. Sometimes I wish I had never taken a hit off an E2. I was happier in some ways with the Boge cartos.
Pb, I would say this is an excellent assessment of the situation and well said, plus I agree with you on what you recommend to new members. The LR boges are great and easy to fill and use on an Ego or Riva..
Battery must last all day
2. Good performance
3. No leaking whatsoever
4. Fill once a day with e-liquid (for most people probably 3-4 ml of juice)
5. No syringes, just unscrew and fill and rescrew together
You just described the Go-Go It has a 3ml carto with horizontal coils, with no burning or dry hits and a 1300 mah battery. Put a 801 soft whistle tip on it and it is a hassle free all day vape. Just pull the whistle tip off and fill like a cart. The Cartos have been lasting weeks instead of days, I've had mine just three days but so far it is the best PV I've had in the year and a half I've been vaping. I have a couple of mods including the Buzz and Indulgence, all the different ego and Riva setups and this is the best yet.
2. Good performance
3. No leaking whatsoever
4. Fill once a day with e-liquid (for most people probably 3-4 ml of juice)
5. No syringes, just unscrew and fill and rescrew together
You just described the Go-Go It has a 3ml carto with horizontal coils, with no burning or dry hits and a 1300 mah battery. Put a 801 soft whistle tip on it and it is a hassle free all day vape. Just pull the whistle tip off and fill like a cart. The Cartos have been lasting weeks instead of days, I've had mine just three days but so far it is the best PV I've had in the year and a half I've been vaping. I have a couple of mods including the Buzz and Indulgence, all the different ego and Riva setups and this is the best yet.
TBH, is ecigs are frustrating the piss out of me. I really like all the benefits they offer but the one negative that is never mentioned is the required constant fiddling with all the fiddlybits.
There is also alot of confusion in my mind as to authenticity and honesty in the industry.
For example, I hear alot of people recommend 'X' starter kit with a pack of 'X' carts. But how can we tell whether the parts are authentic or not? I cant tell you how many 510 knockoff kits I ended up buying that crapped out within a month or two only to find out that it was because the parts I had were not authentic Joye parts.
In my opinion, the battery mods are nearly fully baked. Pretty much decide on:
1. Battery size
2. Button style
3. Variable Voltage (Yes/No) / Method for adjusting
4. Design style
5. Make sure to buy an adapter to make it fit your atty style.
For the most part, they all work the same. They all perform the same (when compared to other similar voltages).
One of the forum users was nice enough to sell me a Map Tank and it should be here Friday. I am really hoping that is the solution to my own personal problem as the last two weeks, I have gone back to analogs. I drive for a living and I need ecigs to be hassle free while I am on the road for 12 hours. I cant have or deal with any jank.
I am completely annoyed with the whole atomizer situation and all I see is alot of temporary solutions (I have my doubts about the Map Tank working well for me) to the biggest problem of all.
And while all these clearomizer, giantomizer, fluxomizer, timewarpomizer, holdsalotoffluidomizer, solutions are interesting, they all look like a damned science experiment sitting on top of a giant electronic screwdriver. These arent realistic solutions for the problem at hand.
__________________________________________
Im not very smart, I leave that to everyone else...
There is also alot of confusion in my mind as to authenticity and honesty in the industry.
For example, I hear alot of people recommend 'X' starter kit with a pack of 'X' carts. But how can we tell whether the parts are authentic or not? I cant tell you how many 510 knockoff kits I ended up buying that crapped out within a month or two only to find out that it was because the parts I had were not authentic Joye parts.
In my opinion, the battery mods are nearly fully baked. Pretty much decide on:
1. Battery size
2. Button style
3. Variable Voltage (Yes/No) / Method for adjusting
4. Design style
5. Make sure to buy an adapter to make it fit your atty style.
For the most part, they all work the same. They all perform the same (when compared to other similar voltages).
One of the forum users was nice enough to sell me a Map Tank and it should be here Friday. I am really hoping that is the solution to my own personal problem as the last two weeks, I have gone back to analogs. I drive for a living and I need ecigs to be hassle free while I am on the road for 12 hours. I cant have or deal with any jank.
I am completely annoyed with the whole atomizer situation and all I see is alot of temporary solutions (I have my doubts about the Map Tank working well for me) to the biggest problem of all.
And while all these clearomizer, giantomizer, fluxomizer, timewarpomizer, holdsalotoffluidomizer, solutions are interesting, they all look like a damned science experiment sitting on top of a giant electronic screwdriver. These arent realistic solutions for the problem at hand.
__________________________________________
Im not very smart, I leave that to everyone else...
If you're concerned about a "science experiment sitting on top of a giant electronic screwdriver"... have you seen a map tank?
Yea, I know it is going to look weird. Personally, Im ok with it but I know alot of people looking into ecigs wont be ok with it.
If I was on the road 12 hours no cartomizer would get me through it I would have to go for a reo or something similar...and I am a cartomizer fan.
The "fiddlybits" is the fun part.
But I'm a modder so well over half of this whole vapie thingy is the hobby part of it.
C2s do require a fair share of fiddlybits, but that's nothing compared to the Genisis.
I have not read the whole thread but I do agree with OP and others about "my" and others' desire for use right out of the packaging. It rarely exist. I cannot stand any type of primer of any form. In fact when I clean/dry/dry burn attys and then store them, if not used immediately, with a drop of PG, in containers, with dessicants I even clean and dryburn those before using.
That being said, anything that can be boiled, I boil first/dry well (at Notebook vent)/dry burn before using. If something can't be boiled it gets a good PGA soak (pure grain alcohol) and then dry/dry burn before using. Exception for dryburning is cartos with filling.
I don't like having to do this. But it is the only way I can be assured that I won't get any off taste that will make me almost puke.
Right now I'm soaking three new cartos, in PGA, a mini MAP, a mini Storm, and a Giantomizer. I have used the Storm and MAP tanks almost since their introduction, different ohm ratings at different voltages. I do like the way my main flavors seem to be enhanced with those tanks; flavors being mostly FSUSA Hopscotch and Butterscotch Almond. I have had the Giantomizer for weeks but haven't had time to play with them. This thread prompted me to get one cleaned up to try out. These are the 1st generation Giantomizers that most people are discussing.
For me, this is the reality of vaping. A hassle, YES.
I mainly use my bottom fed Reos but I still have to clean and prep any atty or carto that goes on them. And I have two other mods that feed, a Phidias, and a GGTS. And I do have other new top feeders/tanks that I haven't had time to play with. Reality, any part that comes in contact with juice will be well cleaned before using.
Sorry to say that this is the only way to be assured of "puke" free attys and cartos.
One major note...... The stronger tobacco flavors mask the "puke" flavor a lot AND many vapers do not use "stronger tobacco flavors." I probably haven't used any in five months. And there are other flavors that can mask the bad taste pretty well. My preferred flavors are delicate in comparison to the tobacco flavors and do nothing to mask off taste. There are a lot of vapers who do not use tobacco flavors.
Short on time now, but there have been several products I have tried that guaranteed to not have any primer taste to them. I can't remember which they were, at the moment, but one or two "guarantees" held up and some didn't.
Alice
That being said, anything that can be boiled, I boil first/dry well (at Notebook vent)/dry burn before using. If something can't be boiled it gets a good PGA soak (pure grain alcohol) and then dry/dry burn before using. Exception for dryburning is cartos with filling.
I don't like having to do this. But it is the only way I can be assured that I won't get any off taste that will make me almost puke.
Right now I'm soaking three new cartos, in PGA, a mini MAP, a mini Storm, and a Giantomizer. I have used the Storm and MAP tanks almost since their introduction, different ohm ratings at different voltages. I do like the way my main flavors seem to be enhanced with those tanks; flavors being mostly FSUSA Hopscotch and Butterscotch Almond. I have had the Giantomizer for weeks but haven't had time to play with them. This thread prompted me to get one cleaned up to try out. These are the 1st generation Giantomizers that most people are discussing.
For me, this is the reality of vaping. A hassle, YES.
I mainly use my bottom fed Reos but I still have to clean and prep any atty or carto that goes on them. And I have two other mods that feed, a Phidias, and a GGTS. And I do have other new top feeders/tanks that I haven't had time to play with. Reality, any part that comes in contact with juice will be well cleaned before using.
Sorry to say that this is the only way to be assured of "puke" free attys and cartos.
One major note...... The stronger tobacco flavors mask the "puke" flavor a lot AND many vapers do not use "stronger tobacco flavors." I probably haven't used any in five months. And there are other flavors that can mask the bad taste pretty well. My preferred flavors are delicate in comparison to the tobacco flavors and do nothing to mask off taste. There are a lot of vapers who do not use tobacco flavors.
Short on time now, but there have been several products I have tried that guaranteed to not have any primer taste to them. I can't remember which they were, at the moment, but one or two "guarantees" held up and some didn't.
Alice
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