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zoiDman

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So i don't live in the USA as i said. What i'm interested in though is what the stutus quo is regarding federal gun laws and their storage. Someone mentioned there are some laws that say owners have a legal responsibility to store their guns safely. My query is whether Americans would embrace a federal law which demanded that all guns in the home should be kept locked down in a gun safe. A measure which could prevent or reduce gun crime.

Why would there be a Need for a Federal Law such as you mentioned?

States have the ability to pass Laws if they believe that there is a problem which needs addressing.
 
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evan le'garde

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Why would there be a Need for a Federal Law such as you mentioned?

States have the ability to pass Laws if they believe that there is a problem which needs addressing.




Have any states made any changes to laws concerning guns when they have experienced problems ?. I mean apart from the fundamental right to bear arms, what else is there ?.

Do Americans have a right to protect themselves or be protected without having to have a gun ?. Or does the law say that if you need to protect yourself you have to have a gun !.

Federal laws which could prevent gun crime don't exist. There's one rule for gun owners and no protection for everyone else. A law which would ensure guns are kept locked away in the home would protect Americans who have no interest in owning a gun.

States which see no reason for such a federal law would probably do nothing about gun laws even if a mass shooting took place tomorrow.

So wouldn't it be a sensible solution to impose federal law which says owners would have to keep all guns which they keep in their home in a gun safe.
 

LX1X

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So i don't live in the USA as i said. What i'm interested in though is what the stutus quo is regarding federal gun laws and their storage. Someone mentioned there are some laws that say owners have a legal responsibility to store their guns safely. My query is whether Americans would embrace a federal law which demanded that all guns in the home should be kept locked down in a gun safe. A measure which could prevent or reduce gun crime.
Federal law.. No requirements in regards to "safes". It's suggested but not required. Same for states law as previously mentioned.

I'll use an example. Maryland. It's illegal for gun owners to leave firearms in easy access of unauthorized person or children under age of 16. We are not required to have a safe.

We are not criminally liable if somebody steals one and use it in a crime as long law enforcement is notified that it's been stolen.
 
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zoiDman

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...

So wouldn't it be a sensible solution to impose federal law which says owners would have to keep all guns which they keep in their home in a gun safe.

Once again, I'm not seeing why there Needs to be a Federal Law to do this?

And what, Exactly, would be the Quantitative Benefit of doing so?
 

evan le'garde

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As i understand it, American gun owners vehemently defend their right to bear arms. Those who do not own guns do not and probably couldn't care less about the second amendment and will probably never own a gun. I imagine, though i couldn't say for sure, that there are more Americans who don't own guns than there are who do. The right to bear arms only applies to those who are interested in owning a gun and they don't seem to consider the rest of the populations rights with regards to self defence because i'd imagine their only solution is to tell those people to carry a gun, their only solution !.
So how is a person expected to be able to defend themselves if they simply aren't interested in owning a gun, by someone who has just stolen that gun from a local neighbourhood house ?.

If individual states cannot and will not make changes to the law which will protect people who don't own guns from gun crime then shouldn't the federal government do something about this ?.

And just to reiterate the gun owning community seem to think that gun ownership is the only answer when it comes to personal protection.
 

LX1X

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Have any states made any changes to laws concerning guns when they have experienced problems ?. I mean apart from the fundamental right to bear arms, what else is there ?.

Do Americans have a right to protect themselves or be protected without having to have a gun ?. Or does the law say that if you need to protect yourself you have to have a gun !.

Federal laws which could prevent gun crime don't exist. There's one rule for gun owners and no protection for everyone else. A law which would ensure guns are kept locked away in the home would protect Americans who have no interest in owning a gun.

States which see no reason for such a federal law would probably do nothing about gun laws even if a mass shooting took place tomorrow.

So wouldn't it be a sensible solution to impose federal law which says owners would have to keep all guns which they keep in their home in a gun safe.

Once again I'll use Maryland as an example.

On 2013 our lovely governor then had the bright idea of putting more laws in the books.. Firearms safety act of 2013.

The "regulated" rifles are now banned.. We now need to get license to purchase a handgun.

Last year our lovely City of Baltimore murder rate sky rocketed to its record high.

In short.. What did that firearm safety act did? Tell you the truth, nothing. O'Mally even tried to use it on his presidential campaign (he failed). His supposedly Lt. Gov used it on governatorial run.. He lost.


Having a safe as mandatory only does couple of things.
1) put all the firearms in one location for thieves to steal.
2) add 5 mins of time to said criminal to steal the firearms.


Every humans have the right to protect themselves. Are there other ways to protect ourselves sure. So does it limit the criminals to only use only specific tool to do us harm? I highly doubt it.

There are only few law enforcement for every civilians. They don't have the duty to protect us (one of US supreme Court ruling).

Fed gun crime law. There are plenty. Why don't you see many gun charges.. Because it get plea bargained.
 

zoiDman

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As i understand it, American gun owners vehemently defend their right to bear arms. Those who do not own guns do not and probably couldn't care less about the second amendment and will probably never own a gun. I imagine, though i couldn't say for sure, that there are more Americans who don't own guns than there are who do. The right to bear arms only applies to those who are interested in owning a gun and they don't seem to consider the rest of the populations rights with regards to self defence because i'd imagine their only solution is to tell those people to carry a gun, their only solution !.
So how is a person expected to be able to defend themselves if they simply aren't interested in owning a gun, by someone who has just stolen that gun from a local neighbourhood house ?.

If individual states cannot and will not make changes to the law which will protect people who don't own guns from gun crime then shouldn't the federal government do something about this ?.

And just to reiterate the gun owning community seem to think that gun ownership is the only answer when it comes to personal protection.

It is Always a Bad Idea to believe that everyone in a Group thinks the same way. Or that everyone who has a Commonality to another Person(s) does the same as that Other person.

The Issue of whether a Firearm Owner should have to keep their Firearms Locked in a Safe is Nothing New. And there are Arguments that ANY Side can make that are Valid.
 
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evan le'garde

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It's obvious, even to me in the UK, that Americans aren't going to give up their right to bear arms.

If it were up to me, and knowing i couldn't change an Americans fundamental right to bear arms, i'd be committed to making it quite clear to every gun owner in no uncertain terms that they will be storing their firearms in the same kind of secure safe used for storing valuable items. The kind which a regular thief couldn't penetrate or steel. I'd ensure the entire nation knew this is mandatory and those who choose to ingore it would be subject to criminal prosecution and ordered to purchase and install a secure safe for any and every kind of firearm in their possession.

The non gun owning general public deserve to have the right to be protected from the gun owning population. And it should be the governments job to ensure laws exist that give the local authorities the right to impose any laws which would help achieve that goal.

So a proactive government department like the ATF which could exists to uphold the rights of those Americans who's rights are as important as those of any gun owners.

As it is it would seem the only Americans with rights are those in possession of firearms and they don't care about the rights of anyone else.

So laws really should be imposed just so these gun owners know what time it is.
 

zoiDman

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It's obvious, even to me in the UK, that Americans aren't going to give up their right to bear arms.

If it were up to me, and knowing i couldn't change an Americans fundamental right to bear arms, i'd be committed to making it quite clear to every gun owner in no uncertain terms that they will be storing their firearms in the same kind of secure safe used for storing valuable items. The kind which a regular thief couldn't penetrate or steel. I'd ensure the entire nation knew this is mandatory and those who choose to ingore it would be subject to criminal prosecution and ordered to purchase and install a secure safe for any and every kind of firearm in their possession.

The non gun owning general public deserve to have the right to be protected from the gun owning population. And it should be the governments job to ensure laws exist that give the local authorities the right to impose any laws which would help achieve that goal.

So a proactive government department like the ATF which could exists to uphold the rights of those Americans who's rights are as important as those of any gun owners.

As it is it would seem the only Americans with rights are those in possession of firearms and they don't care about the rights of anyone else.

So laws really should be imposed just so these gun owners know what time it is.

Maybe in a Future Life you will come back as the Supreme Ruler of the United States of America. And be able to Enact such Sweep Laws to govern those who Own Firearms?

Maybe you could Also enact a law that says that All Cars must have an Alcohol Detector in them? So the car Wouldn't start if the Driver was over the Legal Limit. Because a Lot of People Die every Year from DUI Drivers.

Maybe even More than those who are Killed by Stolen Firearms?
 

evan le'garde

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Maybe in a Future Life you will come back as the Supreme Ruler of the United States of America. And be able to Enact such Sweep Laws to govern those who Own Firearms?

Maybe you could Also enact a law that says that All Cars must have an Alcohol Detector in them? So the car Wouldn't start if the Driver was over the Legal Limit. Because a Lot of People Die every Year from DUI Drivers.

Maybe even More than those who are Killed by Stolen Firearms?

It just seems to me that there is one law in place to protect the rights for one group of people and no laws in place to protect everyone else from those people.
 

zoiDman

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It just seems to me that there is one law in place to protect the rights for one group of people and no laws in place to protect everyone else from those people.

I dunno? Not too many things in the World seem Right anymore. And everything is a Balance between what is Good for Some, and Not good for Others.

I don't like seeing Gun Violence. And I don't like seeing some of the Senseless Acts that seem to be a Weekly occurrence in the USA.

I'm just not sure that Federal Law Requiring someone to keep a Firearm in a Safe is the Answer.
 
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evan le'garde

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I don't know much about American society apart from what i see on the telly. One thing i do see regularly is how cops behave towards occupants of vehicles they've stopped. It does appear that part of the protocol the cops follow is extreme caution. Very often i'll see the police following a protocol which is focused solely on whether the occupants are in possession of firearms. I'm not saying this happens everytime someone is stopped for speeding or tags or running a red light or whatever. I do think though that their training is focused on the possibility that the occupants could be armed.

Then there's the world everyone else lives in. Everyone who has never owned a gun, never will, and have probably never even held a gun, get treated in the exact same way. So the police are trained to deal with everyone in that way. Does that sound fair ?. Or does that sound like a country in which those who carry fire arms are basically dictating to government exactly how things should be for everyone, and everyone else should live with it and not have any choice or say in the way things are done.

Pretty selfish !, don't you think ?.

"Live and let live". That's what i say.
 

zoiDman

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I don't know much about American society apart from what i see on the telly. One thing i do see regularly is how cops behave towards occupants of vehicles they've stopped. It does appear that part of the protocol the cops follow is extreme caution. Very often i'll see the police following a protocol which is focused solely on whether the occupants are in possession of firearms. I'm not saying this happens everytime someone is stopped for speeding or tags or running a red light or whatever. I do think though that their training is focused on the possibility that the occupants could be armed.

Then there's the world everyone else lives in. Everyone who has never owned a gun, never will, and have probably never even held a gun, get treated in the exact same way. So the police are trained to deal with everyone in that way. Does that sound fair ?. Or does that sound like a country in which those who carry fire arms are basically dictating to government exactly how things should be for everyone, and everyone else should live with it and not have any choice or say in the way things are done.

Pretty selfish !, don't you think ?.

"Live and let live". That's what i say.

Law Enforcement has to deal with people at the Bottom of the Barrel on a continual basis. And many of them are Violent Criminals. They don't have to have a Firearm to be Dangerous. But that is something that any LEO would/should consider when approaching a vehicle.

The Media has a Bad Way of making the Most out the Negative things in the World. And doesn't do enough to show the Good things that do occur.

BTW - Here is something I saw today in the News....

“So, I see this old lady begging for change at the bottom the London Bridge off ramp on my way home from work almost everyday...Well today, as i was coming down the off ramp, I saw a VBPD suv pulled up at the spot with lights on and i think to myself ‘Oh great, another homeless person busted for vagrancy. Wonderful.’ But when i got close i realized that he wasn’t arresting her....he was a giving her a brand new pair of boots because hers were all jacked up. He even got down on his knees and helped her lace them up and everything. Shout out to officer friendly with #VBPD for protecting AND serving,” he wrote.

Kerry Dougherty: An act of kindness, captured on camera
 
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HauntedMyst

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Unattended guns should be locked away. The problem is that guns that are locked in a safe can't be used for self protection in an emergency need. From what I have read, many quick access and/or bio-lock technology either aren't actually quick enough or aren't reliable enough to allow the gun to instantly accessible to the authorized user. That effectively renders them useless. I have a gun safe that requires a ten digit key code to enter. I can't image trying to open that under pressure while I thought an intruder was in my house and I've practiced! (Which is also why I have a German Shepherd) I live in Chicago, an area that is currently infamous for the number of gun deaths. What most people and press don't take into account is that the vast majority of those guns are illegally obtained. The crimes tend to be in low income areas where gang activity is present. The problem is a lot bigger than just putting guns in safes. I am a fan of ordinary citizens getting legal guns, training and getting legal concealed carry permits, particularly those who live in high crime areas.
 
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titanle

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Here in Canada you have to possess a license to purchase any guns or ammo. Storage laws require us to store firearms in a locked room or safe (not a cabinet but an actual safe). Firearms and ammo cannot be stored together unless they are in a locked safe. All handguns and most "AR" style assault rifles are registered with the feds. The gun laws here are very strict, they have their pros and cons but I don't mind them for the most part.
 
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