Here's hoping that minors in Hawaii, break this law and overcome the blatant adultism of this policy.
Hawaii Minimum Age
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I've never understood these laws. At 18 you may vote, get married, fight in a war, be executed, but you can't smoke or drink.
I realize less young people have died since the drinking age was raised, but yet its wrong to consider them adults for some things and not others..
I realize less young people have died since the drinking age was raised, but yet its wrong to consider them adults for some things and not others..
So is drinking, smoking, vaping, getting married, taking on debt, voting, etc.
Maybe what we as a society should do is have some sort of standard or test to determine if a person is ready to take on the responsibilities of being an adult. Some people might make the grade in their early teens, while others may never achieve it.
That's true. If they really wanted to be fair and logical, they'd raise the age for ALL OF IT to 25 -- since that's really when the forebrain, the seat of judgment, *begins* to be mature. But I bet that would fly like a lead zeppelin.
Andria
That's true. If they really wanted to be fair and logical, they'd raise the age for ALL OF IT to 25 -- since that's really when the forebrain, the seat of judgment, *begins* to be mature. But I bet that would fly like a lead zeppelin.
Andria
I'd either go with age zero (which I could, easily, make case for) or 40, which strikes me as having demonstrated sufficient time of being mature. I'd have tougher time making case for anything over single digit numbers, but 40 seems reasonable for arguments where double digit numbers are in play. Plus then, the "kids" that are in double digits would be able to contribute to the societal debate that is discriminating against them, and would amount to half the population or so. I reckon some kids, not sure how many, would even support the age 40 thing, while a visible majority would oppose it. But if the "adults" stick to their current rhetoric, we can use all sorts of tactics that make it seem like they don't know any better, whereas we "adults" do, and the state of the world backs up our (pathetic, arbitrary) position.
I'm hard-pressed to think of many things in this world that are more absurd.
Oh yeah Rossum, more government intrusion and legislation.
Thanks for that.
Won't anyone think of the ever-growing bureaucracy?
I don't envy the gas station employee who has to tell the 20yo service member that they cannot purchase cigarettes, or a vape.
No, DC, I said "society", not "government". They are not the same.
As a philosophical anarchist, I would never suggest, much less advocate, "more government intrusion and legislation".
While they're at it, not only should the 21+ age limit law be challenged regarding tobacco and vapor products, it should also be challenged regarding drinking. If you're old enough to vote, enter a contract, go to war as a soldier, or sit in an adult jail or prison (for those accused or convicted of crimes), then you're old enough to smoke, vape, or drink IMO.
I'm fed up with this paternalistic horse hockey. 18-20 year olds are legally adults and it's high time we quit treating them like minors. It seems as if the government expects 18-year-olds to act like adults and take on adult responsibility, but treats them like children by denying them the privileges of adulthood.
Well, I guess if No One challenges this Law, then this is what the People of Hawaii want.
Two points. What about smokers and vapers who are 18 and over before the law takes effect? Are they suddenly barred from buying? I suspect the ban starts with kids who turn 18 going forward. Another point, I followed the news about the age change and did not notice where it says that possession of ecigs will be illegal. All the stuff I read was about who could buy. May be it's still legal to possess but not to buy? Regardless if there are statutes prohibiting possession of tobacco by minors they are never enforced anywhere ever. Are the police now going to ticket kids for smoking and vaping? I haven't noticed any police warnings to that effect.
I don't know about this particular law, but you're right, in most cases it's only the "sale to, or otherwise providing" that is illegal. Not all states, but most. So, the ones who would be fined would be the merchants, or if someone were to purchase and then provide cigarettes or vapor products to someone underage. There is also probably a rolling age limit for the next three years.
Still, in a state with a large transitory population of service men and women, and tourists from outside the state, it seems like an extra bad idea. In addition to it not making sense anyway.
Here's what's truly sad about all of this...
Hawaii, for those that don't realize it, was once at the forefront of fighting this crap.
Volcano was the leader of the charge in that respect, and they helped beat down a number of attempts.
But the fact is, these haters won't stop, ever.
Until we stop them for real.
Hawaii, now, is showing how it really works.
Will we ever be as relentless as they are in trying to get what they're after?
Hawaii, for those that don't realize it, was once at the forefront of fighting this crap.
Volcano was the leader of the charge in that respect, and they helped beat down a number of attempts.
But the fact is, these haters won't stop, ever.
Until we stop them for real.
Hawaii, now, is showing how it really works.
Will we ever be as relentless as they are in trying to get what they're after?
(I'm trying to bold the very last sentence but can't quite figure it out)
My thought after reading that last sentence is that our version of relentless would have to be us entering the political arena and running for these offices ourselves. Literally infiltrate the enemy camp.
Imagine a government that imposed a mandatory MAXIMUM drinking/smoking age of say 40 years old ... 
The reasoning would be that younger people can recover better from the ravages of "bad habits", and older folks no longer have the recuperative powers to withstand toxic substances ...
Of course, politicians would be exempt from the age limit, due to their commitment to public service ...
The reasoning would be that younger people can recover better from the ravages of "bad habits", and older folks no longer have the recuperative powers to withstand toxic substances ...
Of course, politicians would be exempt from the age limit, due to their commitment to public service ...
I fully concur that this is a ridiculous law. Hawaii is full of them. Being a government union state, it has a huge percentage of liberal voters. This is generally balanced out by a unionized police presence who are supposed to enforce the law if they ever get off their lazy azzes or interrupt their own little corrupt schemes long enough to do so.
This is the same state that will mug you for $100 if your passengers are not buckled in the back seat (which is dumb because, let's face it, there's so much traffic on the roads here, it's pretty rare to be able to go over 20 mph)- BUT! - the local preference of having folk ride in a truck bed is absolutely legal.
I just don't see our police marching through Waikiki threatening to arrest 19-21 year old Japanese tourists for being "underage". The shopkeepers will be the "police" and unfortunately that will be pretty effective.
As with most legislative scams, there was a strong turnout to fight for our rights, but the two biggest pharma-sponsored legislative slimeballs pushed it through.
One of them especially doesn't agree with "voter rights","town hall" or "hearings" She is the rudest most ignorant witch, and refuses to allow anyone else but herself speak, - and she does, - loudly - spouting all the junk science nonsense she can regurgitate. This is a gvt technique (shout louder and deny the protesters an opportunity to speak at all) that Joe is so worried about in Brit hearings on vaping, and doubtless will be adopted by other U.S. State slimeballs as we once more enter the legislative fray this year.
This law could also be a political response to the fact that Hawaii is Number 1 in the nation for a certain (badder than the usual culprits) chemical substance use. This dumb azz law is their typical political response to it. Hah! That fixed THAT didn't it!!! probably patting each others slimy backs in their love fest of themselves.
I hope that those in other States have a better time of it when it comes to fighting these all powerful ignorant demi-god prats who are in power, but I doubt they will.
This is the same state that will mug you for $100 if your passengers are not buckled in the back seat (which is dumb because, let's face it, there's so much traffic on the roads here, it's pretty rare to be able to go over 20 mph)- BUT! - the local preference of having folk ride in a truck bed is absolutely legal.
I just don't see our police marching through Waikiki threatening to arrest 19-21 year old Japanese tourists for being "underage". The shopkeepers will be the "police" and unfortunately that will be pretty effective.
As with most legislative scams, there was a strong turnout to fight for our rights, but the two biggest pharma-sponsored legislative slimeballs pushed it through.
One of them especially doesn't agree with "voter rights","town hall" or "hearings" She is the rudest most ignorant witch, and refuses to allow anyone else but herself speak, - and she does, - loudly - spouting all the junk science nonsense she can regurgitate. This is a gvt technique (shout louder and deny the protesters an opportunity to speak at all) that Joe is so worried about in Brit hearings on vaping, and doubtless will be adopted by other U.S. State slimeballs as we once more enter the legislative fray this year.
This law could also be a political response to the fact that Hawaii is Number 1 in the nation for a certain (badder than the usual culprits) chemical substance use. This dumb azz law is their typical political response to it. Hah! That fixed THAT didn't it!!! probably patting each others slimy backs in their love fest of themselves.
I hope that those in other States have a better time of it when it comes to fighting these all powerful ignorant demi-god prats who are in power, but I doubt they will.
No, unfortunately, Lessifer. No rolling law. Effective Jan 1 2016, if you're under 21, it's just too bad. Ridiculous of course. I can only think that tourists can roll round the law by buying their cigs duty-free at departure, or packing them in their luggage on the way over.
I don't know what the story is for the military - I would hope their bases are governed by Federal law, and they would tell the State to sod off, as it's not their "land" to govern. But then I'd guess that military is also pretty aggressive about tobacco use nowadays along with the rest of them who'd rather meddle in your business rather than do something decent by applying their same goody-two-shoes-self-righteous-thous shalt, to minding and correcting their own nasty little businesses first.
That's ridiculous, about the no rolling law. The one that was proposed here in CA at least had that part built in.
I don't know how it is now, but you used to be able to buy cigarettes for much cheaper on a military base, because you don't pay the local taxes, possibly not even the federal ones. I'm not sure about the sale to minors bit though.
There are going to be so many vendors breaking that law. How do you stop selling to someone you've been selling to for 2 1/2 years already? And they won't get caught because the 20 yo customer will be known to them, therefore not a nark. As long as these 18-20 yo's are familiar with the sellers I bet they'll have no problem getting their ciggies.
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