Hawaii Minimum Age

[sofarsogood]

I believe I read somewhere that the restrictions may be enforced on the Navy bases but not on the ships. I wonder if there have been any studies on the prevelence of vaping (or smoking) in the military.

If there is no rolling age expemption that should make for some human interest journalism. What have the 18 to 20 year old's done to prepare, or not? vape gear is easy to get online so will there be a spike in shipments to HI? I think if that law had been applied to me when I was 19 I'd have felt humiliated and angry as though I'd been arrested for a crime I didn't do and the police knew I didn't do it. Perhaps there will be some police incidents reported over this. It's not so easy to drive from HI to another state to pick up cigs.

 

[AndriaD]

I believe I read somewhere that the restrictions may be enforced on the Navy bases but not on the ships. I wonder if there have been any studies on the prevelence of vaping (or smoking) in the military.

If there is no rolling age expemption that should make for some human interest journalism. What have the 18 to 20 year old's done to prepare, or not? Vape gear is easy to get online so will there be a spike in shipments to HI? I think if that law had been applied to me when I was 19 I'd have felt humiliated and angry as though I'd been arrested for a crime I didn't do and the police knew I didn't do it. Perhaps there will be some police incidents reported over this. It's not so easy to drive from HI to another state to pick up cigs.

I think the military bases will enforce the state law. In 1980, I was at Lowry AFB in Denver, and CO had a law restricting those 18-20 to 2% beer -- and even on the base, 2% beer was all I could buy.

Andria

 

[puffon]

I remember those days, when the drinking age went from 18 to 20. I luckily turned 20 the month before the change.
You could buy cigs if you were 16.

 

[Hulamoon]

That's ridiculous, about the no rolling law. The one that was proposed here in CA at least had that part built in.

I don't know how it is now, but you used to be able to buy cigarettes for much cheaper on a military base, because you don't pay the local taxes, possibly not even the federal ones. I'm not sure about the sale to minors bit though.

Well, the military are doing their brow beating part too and jumping on the bandwagon - apparently they just announced that they will comply with the State law on this issue. And they wonder why no-one's joining up nowadays. Of course - just for grins I guess - this also applies to vaping.

 

[sofarsogood]

Laws restricting possession of cigarettes by kids, if they exist, have never been enforced so what will be different now? I never minded to the increasing restrictions on where I could smoke but it had no influence on how much I smoked. The taxes also had no influence. An enlightned approach would be to be more permissive with ecigs to encourage switching but it's obvious the increased restrictions on smoking are to restrict vaping. May be the higher age for smoking will encourage switching to vaping. Once you have some devices and nic in the freezer you don't have to shop very often.

 

[zoiDman]

I don't know about this particular law, but you're right, in most cases it's only the "sale to, or otherwise providing" that is illegal. Not all states, but most. So, the ones who would be fined would be the merchants, or if someone were to purchase and then provide cigarettes or vapor products to someone underage. There is also probably a rolling age limit for the next three years.

Still, in a state with a large transitory population of service men and women, and tourists from outside the state, it seems like an extra bad idea. In addition to it not making sense anyway.

This article talks about Sales and Possession/Use.

"...

Stores caught selling tobacco to anyone under 21 will be fined $500 for the first offense and each violation after that will see fines of anywhere from $500 to $2,000.

Starting next January when the under-21 ban takes effect, any minors caught by police using tobacco products are subject to a $10 fine for the first offense and any subsequent violations will cost them $50.

A proposal to raise the smoking age to 21 is working its way through the California legislature, so California is poised to be the second state to increase the smoking age as high as Hawaii.

There are four states that have already raised the smoking age to 19: Alabama, Alaska, New Jersey and Utah.

..."

Gov. Ige signs bill raising legal smoking age in Hawaii to 21

 

[Lessifer]

This article talks about Sales and Possession/Use.

"...

Stores caught selling tobacco to anyone under 21 will be fined $500 for the first offense and each violation after that will see fines of anywhere from $500 to $2,000.

Starting next January when the under-21 ban takes effect, any minors caught by police using tobacco products are subject to a $10 fine for the first offense and any subsequent violations will cost them $50.

A proposal to raise the smoking age to 21 is working its way through the California legislature, so California is poised to be the second state to increase the smoking age as high as Hawaii.

There are four states that have already raised the smoking age to 19: Alabama, Alaska, New Jersey and Utah.

..."

Gov. Ige signs bill raising legal smoking age in Hawaii to 21

Geez, every time I think it can't be quite as bad as it could be, it's worse. So I wonder how that will work, spot ID checks on anyone smoking that the cop thinks looks under 21? Do they have to be smoking while doing something else stop worthy? If they're caught possessing tobacco, but not in the act of using it, does it still count?

 

[zoiDman]

... If they're caught possessing tobacco, but not in the act of using it, does it still count?

I dunno?

Sometimes there is a Big Difference between being Able to Cite someone for a Violation of a Law and Actually Citing someone.

I showed this Hawaii story to a LEO I know. He just kinda Laughed. Said unless someone gave him a lot of Lip, he would have a hard time writing an "Adult" a citation for having a Pack of Smokes in their Shirt Pocket.

And about the Last thing he would do is to go around Carding people who were Smoking in Smoking allowed Areas if they appeared to be an Adult.

 

[Lessifer]

I dunno?

Sometimes there is a Big Difference between being Able to Cite someone for a Violation of a Law and Actually Citing someone.

I showed this Hawaii story to a LEO I know. He just kinda Laughed. Said unless someone gave him a lot of Lip, he would have a hard time writing an "Adult" a citation for having a Pack of Smokes in their Shirt Pocket.

And about the Last thing he would do is to go around Carding people who were Smoking in Smoking allowed Areas if they appeared to be an Adult.

Which leads me back to, what is the point? I just hope these politicians remember that the minimum age to vote is 18...

 

[AndriaD]

Which leads me back to, what is the point? I just hope these politicians remember that the minimum age to vote is 18...

Yep, and the younger set is VERY active on social media!!!

Andria

 

[zoiDman]

Which leads me back to, what is the point? I just hope these politicians remember that the minimum age to vote is 18...

What is the Point? I dunno.

But I say it has a Lot to do with Someone telling an elected official that they can get more Votes/Campaign Money down the line if they Do this. And that the Opposition is not Organized and will do Little if it Passes.

And the elected official Believes it.

 

[Jman8]

That adults are not organized to oppose this tells me it is perfectly okay, politically speaking, to treat adults like children. Minus the whole (false) narrative around "protecting the children." It seems many adults understand how farcical the politics are when politician invokes 'children' into the narrative, but fail to recognize that this gives virtually free license by political types to treat all citizens as children. Of course not to their faces, as that would just be offensive. Right? (Asked rhetorically, cause if you pay attention, many political types will do it right to your face.)

 

[englishmick]

Which leads me back to, what is the point? I just hope these politicians remember that the minimum age to vote is 18...

Well, they have to walk a very fine line here. They unleashed the "we want to stop people smoking" campaign. So now they have to look busy passing laws against smoking, while taking care that those laws don't actually cut down on the number of smokers. But at the same time they do have to reduce the amount of vaping, which is hard since they are both covered by the same laws.

We should be more sympathetic to their plight. Maybe we should bend over backwards a little more to make their jobs easier. Politicians have feelings too you know.

 

[Rossum]

And about the Last thing he would do is to go around Carding people who were Smoking in Smoking allowed Areas if they appeared to be an Adult.

There are precious few of them in Hawaii, especially in urban areas, because smoking is prohibited within 20' of the entrance of anyplace wherein smoking is prohibited. Last time I was there (2007), there was a coffee shop I frequented. It had plenty of outdoor seating, but all of it was within 20' of the door. Hawaii County (the Big Island) banned smoking in all outdoor public recreation areas, which includes all their beaches back in 2008. At this point, I'm very happy my wife and I decided our vacation/retirement place would be in Florida rather than Hawaii.

 

[zoiDman]

There are precious few of them in Hawaii, especially in urban areas, because smoking is prohibited within 20' of the entrance of anyplace wherein smoking is prohibited. Last time I was there (2007), there was a coffee shop I frequented. It had plenty of outdoor seating, but all of it was within 20' of the door. Hawaii County (the Big Island) banned smoking in all outdoor public recreation areas, which includes all their beaches back in 2008. At this point, I'm very happy my wife and I decided our vacation/retirement place would be in Florida rather than Hawaii.

Never been to Hawaii. Don't have a huge desire to do so Either. Plenty of Places in the Continental US I would rather Frequent. Or Re-Frequent before I get to Hawaii on the list.

The long and the short of all this is Why would Laws like this Not Continue? And spread to Other States?

 

[Rossum]

Never been to Hawaii. Don't have a huge desire to do so Either. Plenty of Places in the Continental US I would rather Frequent. Or Re-Frequent before I get to Hawaii on the list.

My wife and I ended up there for our honeymoon 30 years ago and returned a number of times since then. It's a spectacularly beautiful place and has excellent weather pretty much year round. If politics and the hassle involved in getting there was not a consideration, we'd probably have a place there by now.

The long and the short of all this is Why would Laws like this Not Continue? And spread to Other States?

I don't know that for sure that they won't, but some states have a higher concentration of nannies who desire to control how everyone else lives than others, and I think you know me well enough by now to predict which I would prefer.

 

[zoiDman]

...

I don't know that for sure that they won't, but some states have a higher concentration of nannies who desire to control how everyone else lives than others, and I think you know me well enough by now to predict which I would prefer.

I agree. The way things are Going, I see No Reason why Hawaii would be the Exception and Not the Rule.

BTW - When you say "Nannies", are you referring to Members of the General Population, those who are supposed to Represent the General Population, or perhaps Both?

Because what it seems I see more of is Elected Officials enacting Solutions to Problems that either Don't Exist, or will be Ineffectual in preventing the Alleged Problem.

And they are Not doing it as a Solution, or because they Care, or as a means of Control. They are just Doing it to Look Good in the Eyes of an Uniformed General Population.

 

[Papa_Lazarou]

Maybe what we as a society should do is have some sort of standard or test to determine if a person is ready to take on the responsibilities of being an adult. Some people might make the grade in their early teens, while others may never achieve it.

The Romans had a similar idea. They used the term "adolescent" not as a transient state based on age but as a non-responsible status. Many Romans went to their graves (middle aged or older) as adolescents.

 

[sofarsogood]

Part of the story is the police can give $10 tickets to kids for smoking or vaping. Will they write those tickets? Time will tell. Vape gear will be easier to buy than cigarettes because of mail order. Will the kids go that route? How many parents will buy vape gear for their kids to keep them off cigs? Will parents be arrested for doing that? When I was a kid I stopped smoking a few times. It wasn't so hard at that age but I can't predict what kids in HI will do. May be some lessons will be learned from the HI experiment.

 

[zoiDman]

Do you think Many Online Retailers will sell to people under 21 if their shipping address is in Hawaii? There not looking at a 10 Dollar Fines.

And a good Sting Operation would place 5 or 6 Separate Orders at the same time. To Rack up those $500 ~ $2,000 Dollar 2nd Offense Penalties.