i KNOW THAT FOR MYSELF WHEN i vape LIQUIDS WITH MORE THAN 20-25% pg bOTH MY MOUTH AND THROAT ARE IRRITATED AND i GET RAW SPOTS IN MY MOUTH ESPECIALLY WHEN i vape HEAVILY. i AM USUALLY OK WHEN i MAKE MY OWN AND KEEP PG DOWN TO 20-25% i'VE TRIED 100%VG BUT THEN i GET CONGESTED. wHEN EVER i TAKE IT INTO MY NASAL CAVITY i HAVE A NASTY ALLERGIC TYPE REACTION. sO SAY WHAT YOU WILL pg IS NASTY!
Hi, and some MSDS data on PG
- Thread starter nomadman
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
nomadman,
I can't thank you enough for posting this information. I think I finally have the answer to my physical 'issues', since I started vaping 3 months ago. I posted a question to my new e-family over on the V4L forum. (great place by the way!) I wanted to know why I was having soooo many stomach problems. At first, they assumed I wasn't drinking enough water, then it was a reaction to the flavorings, or maybe a VG allergy, so I tried all PG. With my stomach problems continuing, I've been very tempted to go back to analogs. (smoked 37 years) Ha, I thought you were supposed to feel better when you quit - nope, I feel horrible. ARGH!
After reading the research you found, it seems very logical that my all PG juice is causing my discomfort. Would all the lovely members here please tell me if it's a stretch - since I am lactose intolerant? If I'm inhaling PG, which (may) cause Lactic Acidosis - that may be the cause of my problems. I feel very similar to when I was a big milk drinker. Yes/No/Maybe?
I can't thank you enough for posting this information. I think I finally have the answer to my physical 'issues', since I started vaping 3 months ago. I posted a question to my new e-family over on the V4L forum. (great place by the way!) I wanted to know why I was having soooo many stomach problems. At first, they assumed I wasn't drinking enough water, then it was a reaction to the flavorings, or maybe a VG allergy, so I tried all PG. With my stomach problems continuing, I've been very tempted to go back to analogs. (smoked 37 years) Ha, I thought you were supposed to feel better when you quit - nope, I feel horrible. ARGH!
After reading the research you found, it seems very logical that my all PG juice is causing my discomfort. Would all the lovely members here please tell me if it's a stretch - since I am lactose intolerant? If I'm inhaling PG, which (may) cause Lactic Acidosis - that may be the cause of my problems. I feel very similar to when I was a big milk drinker. Yes/No/Maybe?
I have been vaping for about a month now and it has mostly been a good experience so far. The only side effects I am having is an increase in shortness of breath. I am sure it is from vaping because I know my body and I have been using nicotine lozenges for 4 years, only smoking analogs a week here and there, and the same thing happens after a few days of smoking tobacco.
I picked up the e cig because I thought that it would be a safe alternative ( at least no worse than the lozenges) to keep me off analogs for good.
I have read a lot of comments about how PG is safe. None of the comments were backed up with data or studies so I did some research and came to a different conclusion. According to my findings there is no scientific evidence that PG is safe. In fact, the evidence indicates that PG is indeed toxic and the prolonged exposure can cause the body harm.
I searched Google Scholar with the terms "propylene glycol" and "toxicity" and then "propylene glycol" and "lactic acidosis", and also had a look at the MSDS.
This is an excerpt from the MSDS :
Potential Chronic Health Effects:
The substance may be toxic to central nervous system (CNS). Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organs damage.
Here is the link to the full MSDS
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927239
That makes to answer to the "Is PG bad for you?" question clear to me, yes PG is bad for you. I am pretty sure that vaping the stuff would fall under "repeated and prolonged exposure".
I also found a few peer-reviewed articles on Google Scholar indicating that PG can cause lactic acidosis.
Lactic acidosis can cause nausea, abdominal pain, anxiety, irregular heart rate, and tachycardia (panic attack anyone?) Source: Lactic Acidosis - Symptoms - Better Medicine
Links to a few of these articles are here ( these are from 1985 to 2005, so there is recent evidence to support this):
Propylene Glycol-Induced Lactic Acidosis in a Patient with Normal Renal Function: A Proposed Mechanism and Monitoring Recommendations
Cookies Required - CAB Direct
ingentaconnect Propylene Glycol as a Cause of Lactic Acidosis
I hope this post helps others who were looking for some straight answers such as myself. Just because someone with a vested interest, or someone who thinks they know a "fact" because they read it on a forum or wiki, says a product is safe does not make it so. For this reason I took the time to provide links to the information I presented.
I do have some VG juice on the way, but if the breathing issue keeps up I may just stick with the lozenges and use my e-cig when I really need to smoke (after a few beers).
Perhaps a doc might interject something here. However, at first investigation on my part I see no direct connection between lactose intolerance and lactic acidosis. Some more general info on lactic acidosis can be found here Lactic acidosis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Here is an extract from that link:
You mention in your post possible VG allergy. This suggest to me that you were having some stomach issues while using a VG based e-liquid and that perhaps you have switched to all PG based e-liquids because of those concerns - yet still have stomach issues with PG. From the above quote it does appear that there can be numerous causes for lactic acidosis. And, of course, there are numerous ailments that can produce the stomach problem symptoms that you have. That is, that you had same problems (apparently) with VG, that your symptom can be caused by a number of things and that your lactose intolerance seems not to be directly connected to lactic acidosis suggests to me that PG as the cause of your problem is only a very remote possibility. Perhaps a fair test for PG as culprit is to stop all PG. Maybe try the lozenges that worked sometimes for the OP and avoid vaping totally for a period of time.
If you do try the no vaping experiment, please, after doing so, post again so ECF members might know the outcome.
Last edited:
Dear JW50,
Thank you so much for your message. I guess I'm just at a loss for what to do. When I first started vaping with GreenSmoke and WhiteCloud (I know, I know... but at least they got me off analogs!) I didn't encounter any problems - at all. That's when I graduated up to the good stuff, which when all my ouchies began. One of my first questions on V4L was if there was any lactose in the juice, since I was experiencing the same exact symptoms of my old milk drinking days. So, I tried V4L's 3 types of blends - 90/10, 80/20, and 70/30 - plus their all VG. OMG... the VG is what had me (ahem, shall I say) .... losing 5 pounds over night! I'd go back on the GS to settle things down, and then experiment with another mix. Once I found an all PG supplier (yay vaperite!) I stopped the instant weight loss plan, but the night time cramping began. Sheesh, I never thought I was such a sensitive little thing!
I'm just hoping there is some kind of Lactose/Lactic acid connection to what's going on with my tummy. I just ran down to the store and bought some Lactaid tablets. (for lactose intollerance) I'll let you know how my next experiment goes.
Thank you so much for your message. I guess I'm just at a loss for what to do.
When I first started vaping with GreenSmoke and WhiteCloud (I know, I know... but at least they got me off analogs!) I didn't encounter any problems - at all. That's when I graduated up to the good stuff, which when all my ouchies began. One of my first questions on V4L was if there was any lactose in the juice, since I was experiencing the same exact symptoms of my old milk drinking days. So, I tried V4L's 3 types of blends - 90/10, 80/20, and 70/30 - plus their all VG. OMG... the VG is what had me (ahem, shall I say) .... losing 5 pounds over night! I'd go back on the GS to settle things down, and then experiment with another mix. Once I found an all PG supplier (yay vaperite!) I stopped the instant weight loss plan, but the night time cramping began. Sheesh, I never thought I was such a sensitive little thing! I'm just hoping there is some kind of Lactose/Lactic acid connection to what's going on with my tummy. I just ran down to the store and bought some Lactaid tablets. (for lactose intollerance) I'll let you know how my next experiment goes.
Lactose intolerance & lactic acidosis are 2 totally different things.
I guess I'm beating a dead horse here, but my medical background is undisputed.
sent from my always glamorous Android using Tapatalk
I guess I'm beating a dead horse here, but my medical background is undisputed.
sent from my always glamorous Android using Tapatalk
Hi bmwjen,
Thank you so much. Yes, I've read the entire thread, and your earlier posts. (sorry about that dead horse!) I really am just at a loss for what to try next. The all VG opens the flood gates, the all PG dries me to cramps, and a combination of both ... well, does both. ACK!
I truly appreciate your medical background ...... but, (you knew there was a 'but' coming, eh?) .... with my 3 months of sleep deprivation, I'm thinking LACT-ose and LACT-ic come from the same Latin word, meaning milk. Along with my experience of anything with lactose - hates me!
Do you have any ideas on what I could try next? I just don't understand why the GreenSmoke or WhiteCloud juices didn't bother me. I may have to go back to them, just so I can feel better and get some sleep......
p.s Please don't worry about replying if that poor horse is trying to recover.
Thank you so much. Yes, I've read the entire thread, and your earlier posts. (sorry about that dead horse!)
I really am just at a loss for what to try next. The all VG opens the flood gates, the all PG dries me to cramps, and a combination of both ... well, does both. ACK! I truly appreciate your medical background ...... but, (you knew there was a 'but' coming, eh?) .... with my 3 months of sleep deprivation, I'm thinking LACT-ose and LACT-ic come from the same Latin word, meaning milk. Along with my experience of anything with lactose - hates me!
Do you have any ideas on what I could try next? I just don't understand why the GreenSmoke or WhiteCloud juices didn't bother me. I may have to go back to them, just so I can feel better and get some sleep......
p.s Please don't worry about replying if that poor horse is trying to recover.
Hi bmwjen,
Thank you so much. Yes, I've read the entire thread, and your earlier posts. (sorry about that dead horse!)
I truly appreciate your medical background ...... but, (you knew there was a 'but' coming, eh?) .... with my 3 months of sleep deprivation, I'm thinking LACT-ose and LACT-ic come from the same Latin word, meaning milk. Along with my experience of anything with lactose - hates me!
Do you have any ideas on what I could try next? I just don't understand why the GreenSmoke or WhiteCloud juices didn't bother me. I may have to go back to them, just so I can feel better and get some sleep......
p.s Please don't worry about replying if that poor horse is trying to recover.
My opinion - no reason to suffer so if it can be avoided with GreenSmoke. I suggest going back if the problems you currently have did not exist with GreenSmoke. You'll hear some negative comments from many at ECF (including me at times as that was my first e-cig effort) but so what. If GreenSmoke keeps you away from cigs (I suspect the real culprit her) and keeps your stomach at peace - that is way to go. But - it is my suspicion that return to GreenSmoke will not solve the problem. It will persist - guessing of course. I suspect something other than VG or PG or flavoring or lack of water. I suspect some disease, some medicine, some "normal" life time event. If pain and episodes bad and frequent - doc visit in order. But I would suggest no "this is it" to doc. Tell symptoms, tell all that you do - but let doc suggest what is cause. Never can tell - he may say best cure is to smoke cigs. Don't think so - but let him/her use their skills without you saying PG (or VG or vaping) did this to me. Just MO.
Don't mean to be presumptuous, don't mean to be mean, don't mean to be unbelieving - but could you give a glimmer as to why your medical background is undisputed? But - not disputing. Just a clue - so I might look further and have some independent confidence in the undisputed part.
That is CODe, his sister was a National Champion. I owned his great grandmother too.
I posted on another thread about my allergic reaction (chest rash) to pg. I am currently trying to find an alternative via vg juice. Wish me luck! Wintering... I feel you. Feel free to PM me.
Hi SammySweetheart, and welcome! Gosh, maybe we should switch our juices?!?
Wishing you (and all of us) luck in getting this figured out!
Wishing you (and all of us) luck in getting this figured out!
I was reading about PEG from a link supplied by somebody else on a thread I started yesterday and decided to search for PG on Wikipedia and found it interesting to see that in amongst all the information there was mention that certain individual users of PG in electronic cigarettes have reported shortness of breath.
Propylene glycol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Propylene glycol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
