High drain batteries, talk to me...
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I wasn't comparing the 14500 to the 18650..
It was more of a comparison of the regular 14500's and 18650's to the higher C ratings in their own class.
I don't think the 18650's benefit as much because there's more flow in them already where the normal 14500's seem to fade away quicker..
I've never had a problem with 18650's putting out... I think the standard grade batt is more than enough to get the job done...
It also has to do with the battery life and how it's been cycled...
I had a 14500 direct short in the Super6 to the point it burned the wrapper off of the bottom. I re-sealed it in heatshrink and now all of a sudden it's the hottest 14500 battery I have. *Strange*
Being an aviation professional I can say this much, safety and reliability demands that we never ever design a system to run at its theoretical maximum output. As a general rule components are rated at ~2/3 of capability. In a device such as ours that carry an inherent risk of shorts, a high drain source may prove safer and more durable as long as adequate protection circuits are employed.
Davids mechanical products appear to provide an outstanding ability to withstand much more abuse than the power source so the weak link is the battery. High drain chemistry coupled with a slightly more conservative protection circuit is probably the best option if one could be developed.
Davids mechanical products appear to provide an outstanding ability to withstand much more abuse than the power source so the weak link is the battery. High drain chemistry coupled with a slightly more conservative protection circuit is probably the best option if one could be developed.
In the interest of product safety, a bi-metallic spring calibrated to a specific amperage output could be a nice feature to protect the adapters. Various different values can even help against battery failure when matched to specific types or combinations.
In a multi-voltage capable device such as the S6, it ultimately falls on the consumer to take the proper precautions which for many manufacturers is an unacceptable risk. In my opinion, unprotected lithium based batteries shouldn’t even be marketed individually or to the consumer. The makers of these products appear to have somehow distanced themselves from the obvious liabilities associated with them.
In a multi-voltage capable device such as the S6, it ultimately falls on the consumer to take the proper precautions which for many manufacturers is an unacceptable risk. In my opinion, unprotected lithium based batteries shouldn’t even be marketed individually or to the consumer. The makers of these products appear to have somehow distanced themselves from the obvious liabilities associated with them.
Sparky beat me to it by quite a bit but those are the them. Maybe you need to bring the T1 back into production.
well I've done alot of research and math (and it was a whole lot of math) as far as batteries go...
The conclusion I've come to is that as far as amperage drain goes even the lowest mAh rated 18650 batteries are sufficient and that yeah the high drain 18650s are overkill...
However, when using stacked cells for high voltage the high drain IMR CR123 size are the only ones that meet the amp drain requirements at 7.4V ....and at 6V the AW 3V CR123 are the only ones...
For the sake of simplicity and not having to post alot of blah blah math...I'll give you the numbers for the most demanding of amp draws (this would be at full charge on the batteries...and the standard joye 510 atty (HV atties or even cartos or other atties would drop the amp draw a bit...but like I said I'm worst case senario/ most demand on the batteries ing this)
3.7V (4.2V) with LR 510 atty....2.8A
6V (6.4V) with joye 510 atty....2.78A
7.4V (8V) w/joye 510 atty.... 3.48A
now the batteries max drain rate...
18650
AW (2200mAh) .... <4.4A
Ultrafire (3000mAh)....<4.5A
AW IMR (1600mAh)....<16A
*all above the amp draw of even the most demanding of the atties out there
but now the CR123 size
first 3V for 6V
Ultrafire (880mAh)....<1.32A
Tenergy 3V LiFePo4 (750mAh)....<.55A
AW LiFePo4 (500mAh)....<5A
*so the only one that can cover the 2.78A draw is the AW LiFePo4
now 3.7V size for 7.4V
Ultrafire (880mAh)...<1.32A
AW (750mAh)....<1.5A
AW IMR (550mAh)....<4.4A
*the only one capable of covering the 3.48A draw rate is the AW High Drain IMR
So at 6V and 7.4V ...the abuse we're putting on our batteries is doing all sorts of things to them... we're averdraining the crap out of em which is causing them to overheat and shortening their duty cycles something severe...in some cases the degree that we're overdraining them is causing the protection circut to trip.. and I'd suspect the major contributing factor to why unprotecteds can pop..
Remember this is absolute highest demand senario...at 6V with a 4.5Ω HV atty the amp draw is more like 1.33A (1.42A).... and at 7.4 with a 5.2Ω HV atty the draw is more like 1.42A (1.54A) which opens up a few more battery options but they're real close to the amp draw being right at the max drain rate of the battery or the batteries at full charge being just over the max drain rate and it's not nessicarily good to run them at full bore all the time either...
The conclusion I've come to is that as far as amperage drain goes even the lowest mAh rated 18650 batteries are sufficient and that yeah the high drain 18650s are overkill...
However, when using stacked cells for high voltage the high drain IMR CR123 size are the only ones that meet the amp drain requirements at 7.4V ....and at 6V the AW 3V CR123 are the only ones...
For the sake of simplicity and not having to post alot of blah blah math...I'll give you the numbers for the most demanding of amp draws (this would be at full charge on the batteries...and the standard joye 510 atty (HV atties or even cartos or other atties would drop the amp draw a bit...but like I said I'm worst case senario/ most demand on the batteries ing this)
3.7V (4.2V) with LR 510 atty....2.8A
6V (6.4V) with joye 510 atty....2.78A
7.4V (8V) w/joye 510 atty.... 3.48A
now the batteries max drain rate...
18650
AW (2200mAh) .... <4.4A
Ultrafire (3000mAh)....<4.5A
AW IMR (1600mAh)....<16A
*all above the amp draw of even the most demanding of the atties out there
but now the CR123 size
first 3V for 6V
Ultrafire (880mAh)....<1.32A
Tenergy 3V LiFePo4 (750mAh)....<.55A
AW LiFePo4 (500mAh)....<5A
*so the only one that can cover the 2.78A draw is the AW LiFePo4
now 3.7V size for 7.4V
Ultrafire (880mAh)...<1.32A
AW (750mAh)....<1.5A
AW IMR (550mAh)....<4.4A
*the only one capable of covering the 3.48A draw rate is the AW High Drain IMR
So at 6V and 7.4V ...the abuse we're putting on our batteries is doing all sorts of things to them... we're averdraining the crap out of em which is causing them to overheat and shortening their duty cycles something severe...in some cases the degree that we're overdraining them is causing the protection circut to trip.. and I'd suspect the major contributing factor to why unprotecteds can pop..
Remember this is absolute highest demand senario...at 6V with a 4.5Ω HV atty the amp draw is more like 1.33A (1.42A).... and at 7.4 with a 5.2Ω HV atty the draw is more like 1.42A (1.54A) which opens up a few more battery options but they're real close to the amp draw being right at the max drain rate of the battery or the batteries at full charge being just over the max drain rate and it's not nessicarily good to run them at full bore all the time either...
The ones I ordered are from the same place HERE
They seem to perform a lot better than the Blue Ultrafire or Tenergy's
Could just be that they're new (2 weeks old). We'll see over time.
Those are the ones I have as well.... I am getting about 4 hours of heavy vaping from them which is about on par with other 14500's...
They are top quality batteries though, no doubt....
Kris
They are top quality batteries though, no doubt....
Kris
The AW 18650 comes in 2600 mAh now. They have double the protection circuts of other brands. I bought 2 AW RCR123s and it cooked my juice ot should I say burned. Had to use a HV atty to get the burned taste away.
I *think* the 2600mah version is flat tops though and won't work.....
I could be wrong....
Kris
AW makes 2 kinds of 18650 normal and high drain.
The high drain cells are very respected in other community's and have proven themselves safe(er) powerful and reliable.
AW IMR are what you want, and by judging by your work will come to this conclusion soon enough on your own.
I encourage you to do some testing and homework, PM me for some links if you would like
(PS they make C cell sized ones also)
The high drain cells are very respected in other community's and have proven themselves safe(er) powerful and reliable.
AW IMR are what you want, and by judging by your work will come to this conclusion soon enough on your own.
I encourage you to do some testing and homework, PM me for some links if you would like
(PS they make C cell sized ones also)
Yep, I have a few of those too. Very ice batteries, but I didn't think they were high drain.
got the IMR16340's in this afternoon for the T1.
They're hitting really nice but, they're also 45minutes old... Better than the silver yellow Trustfires though....
I thought these 14500's did have a higher "C" rating than the standard UF's or Tenergy's... May be because they're new but they have a lot more power on them..
Some of my original 14500 Trustfires are probably 6 or 7 months old...
They're hitting really nice but, they're also 45minutes old... Better than the silver yellow Trustfires though....
I thought these 14500's did have a higher "C" rating than the standard UF's or Tenergy's... May be because they're new but they have a lot more power on them..
Some of my original 14500 Trustfires are probably 6 or 7 months old...
I got this battery in today:
AW 18650 Protected 2600 mAh Rechargeable Lithium Battery - New Version
It's identical in length to my Red Ultrafire 3000mah. It is not a button top, however, it will work just fine in my mods without the need for any magnet or anything, so either can be used in the 3 18650 mods i have under development.
I really like this battery
AW 18650 Protected 2600 mAh Rechargeable Lithium Battery - New Version
It's identical in length to my Red Ultrafire 3000mah. It is not a button top, however, it will work just fine in my mods without the need for any magnet or anything, so either can be used in the 3 18650 mods i have under development.
I really like this battery
GGGGgggoooooOOOoOOooOOoooo DAVID!!!
I got this battery in today:
AW 18650 Protected 2600 mAh Rechargeable Lithium Battery - New Version
It's identical in length to my Red Ultrafire 3000mah. It is not a button top, however, it will work just fine in my mods without the need for any magnet or anything, so either can be used in the 3 18650 mods i have under development.
I really like this battery
3 Big battery mods??
Hope you keep the design similar to your past projects.. Love the simplicity.. It works....
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