Houston, we have a problem...BE nic titration results

[ScottB]

Link please?

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/224197-boxelder-nic-feels-wayyyy-too-strong.html

The thread had taken a permanent OT turn to Chatland...

 

[tiburonfirst]

well, looking at the thread and what became of it there really was nothing else for roly to do but close it.

 

[TallGrass]

I'm assuming that Box Elder is doing a recall on those batches to remove the possibility of anybody getting hurt. Right?

 

[carpedebass]

I'm assuming that Box Elder is doing a recall on those batches to remove the possibility of anybody getting hurt. Right?

Big assumption there Tall. Given the predisposition of BE to "customer needs" I doubt it.

 

[Hoosier]

I'm assuming that Box Elder is doing a recall on those batches to remove the possibility of anybody getting hurt. Right?

There has been no announcement of that sort from BE, to my knowledge, at this time. BE's CEO was given the batch numbers during the first broadcast a couple of days ago.

 

[rkayw]

Assume nothing is my stand point. Until I see in writing a formal recall from BE, I assume nothing.
Even then I would probably have to hear/see vapers followup statments etc on how BE handled any recall with them as a customer.
JMO.

 

[carpedebass]

Yes katya he did indeed offer a 50% off sale. it was in the first email i received on Nov 2. the subject line was "Recent ECF post and 50% off sale."

after "assuring" us that "our product is the correct strength of nicotine due to the fact that for safety reasons we dilute our pure nicotine to 100 mg/ml strength before it ever enters our distribution facility."

explaining how the nic could not possibly be to high etc etc etc.. he ended with this statement: With that in mind we would like to announce that for the next week will will be running a "50% Off Sale" on Box Elder Chemical Supply

Makes perfect sense! Instead of a recall, let's put more potential poison in the hands of users. *sarcasm*

 

[markfm]

So far it sounds like two Lots are suspicious. Is current product shipped from a different Lot number?

 

[Hoosier]

So far it sounds like two Lots are suspicious. Is current product shipped from a different Lot number?

According to the label pictures posted recently, the lot numbers seem to have been replaced with CAS numbers. Which makes things even odder in my head...

 

[carpedebass]

That was my point exactly when i posted this several pages back carpedebass

Yep! I caught it...just wanted to put it out there again.

 

[incantius]

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that we can't go around throwing that word around, "criminal". It's not for us to decide. It's not criminal to sell a chainsaw to a texan murder. We need to be responsible for ourselves, as the OP did, and use our noses before using something. If you call the guy at the top a criminal, then it falls all the way down the chain right to us as well.

i haven't read the 5,000 posts or so...but if nothing else there is a chance at a fraudulent claims/advertisement suit out of this as well as a negligent practices suit.

 

[mostlyclassics]

With regard to more accurate results, couldn't one take the eBay test and simply double up on the amounts (2 ml. e-liquid instead of 1 ml., etc.) to get a closer result than the nominal plus-or-minus 10% accuracy it gives you? Or am I missing something here?

 

[incantius]

So as I have believed from the begining and even more today. This (our) industry needs regulation, ouch I said it. I know it won't be perfect but atleast on whole us vapers can be assured of what we are buying. It saddens me to think it has come to this where an individual not paid to do testing can get results that merely can be deadly. I do not know or have any thoughts of what type of regulation would be best for all us, but I think these results just may be the catalyst to it.
This is only testing for nic I think we might be even more scared to see results of all these pop up companies selling e-liquid.
What sanitary conditions or lack of where the juice is being made.
So as stated before thanks for the eye opener.

actually for this instance there are already regulations in place that aren't being enforced. any and all chemical products are regulated by the FDA, etc. apparently our government agencies don't apply all of the laws on the books to verify the quality, etc. of the imported chemicals. in the end this is the same as having medications brought into the country without verifying that the medication is within the specified amount per dose (most generic Rxs aren't the actual mg as the brand name, as long as the dosage is within a certain range like 1 mg difference it is acceptable as a "replacement" for the "original").

 

[GiMante]

I'm assuming that Box Elder is doing a recall on those batches to remove the possibility of anybody getting hurt. Right?

Brad from Box Elder stated in his interview on VapeTV, that if you contact him, he would issue a refund.

 

[retird]

To me the bottom line is that quality controls from ALL vendors need to be in place to verify the nic levels of ALL their juice. We should not have to "test" the juice ourselves. If I order a 12 mg. juice, it should always be 12 mg. juice. If I DIY, the nic I purchase should be at the level that it is sold as....just my take on this.....

 

[ScottB]

actually for this instance there are already regulations in place that aren't being enforced. any and all chemical products are regulated by the FDA, etc. apparently our government agencies don't apply all of the laws on the books to verify the quality, etc. of the imported chemicals. in the end this is the same as having medications brought into the country without verifying that the medication is within the specified amount per dose (most generic Rxs aren't the actual mg as the brand name, as long as the dosage is within a certain range like 1 mg difference it is acceptable as a "replacement" for the "original").

You may want to read through the thread. The imported nic isn't the problem.

 

[Kurt]

With regard to more accurate results, couldn't one take the eBay test and simply double up on the amounts (2 ml. e-liquid instead of 1 ml., etc.) to get a closer result than the nominal plus-or-minus 10% accuracy it gives you? Or am I missing something here?

It is the fact that it is an indicator method that gives much of the uncertainty. But yes, titrating more will increase the accuracy somewhat. Regardless, the kit will give, if done properly, a very good indication of nic level, as long as the liquid is not pH-adjusted by the vendor. BE evidently does not, but I know others do. In those situations, there will be a very large error, giving results much lower than actual nic content. So it MUST be a freebase nic liquid for the kit to be at all accurate, and unless the vendor reveals this info, you won't know.

 

[Kurt]

actually for this instance there are already regulations in place that aren't being enforced. any and all chemical products are regulated by the FDA, etc. apparently our government agencies don't apply all of the laws on the books to verify the quality, etc. of the imported chemicals. in the end this is the same as having medications brought into the country without verifying that the medication is within the specified amount per dose (most generic Rxs aren't the actual mg as the brand name, as long as the dosage is within a certain range like 1 mg difference it is acceptable as a "replacement" for the "original").

Think of nic as a supplement, NOT a medication. Nic is not characterized as a drug unless it is in a NRT and sold by a pharm company specifically for smoking cessation, which PVs are not. Supplements are not FDA regulated for amounts labeled. We must trust vitamin companies' word.

 

[markfm]

Took another look at the TPA GC/MS report. There is no lot number or other identifier to tie it to a specific production run. Perhaps there is a page missing, that lists the sample id info?

 

[Kurt]

Took another look at the TPA GC/MS report. There is no lot number or other identifier to tie it to a specific production run. Perhaps there is a page missing, that lists the sample id info?

I've not seen it. Can you post a link? Sorry if people are repeat posting...so many pages!