Houston, we have a problem...BE nic titration results

[Seabrook]

well, looking at the thread and what became of it there really was nothing else for roly to do but close it.

Tiburonfirst, you are correct. At the end, the thread had too much chit chat on it, so I am assuming that Roly closed the thread to preserve the integrity of the original post with the serious topic at issue.

He may have also closed it to protect a poster (smallman - whose nic tested @ 272) who turns out to be one of the heros(ines) of this situation (along with OP and Kurt). She was consistently being publicly doubted, badgered and challenged in this thread by a poster who even began to question Kurt. See posts below.

Originally Posted by CountryCarol – Post #204

Just me here but does anyone find it odd that only one person posted test results and it was of liquid she diluted herself??
Does anyone have any pictures of these test results?? How experienced of a user is she with test??
I know that sounds harsh but ya know these days who can ya trust just alone on word. I want to see some pictures, then I might take this thread a little more serious!! Till then I smell a big stinky at the bottom of this!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by CountryCarol – Post #213

@olef, do you not have any previous experience to compare your current nic with?
Take pictures lets see it.
My interest is the truth!

Originally Posted by CountryCarol – Post #213

Good then smallmam you shouldn't have a problem posting pics of the undiluted nic at 100mg retest and post pictures of your step by step process while testing along with proof you are a customer of box elders.

Originally Posted by CountryCarol – Post #218

Smallmam was the one who posted between our post. Scroll back and you will see. Smallmam was also the only person that has posted results.

I spelled it wrong and quoting mobile isn't easy. Sorry that you assumed wrong without getting the facts. Is this a habbit you make often?

Originally Posted by CountryCarol – Post #220

Do we have another assumer on our hands?

 

[carpedebass]

Seabrook, if I recall correctly Post #220 was directed at me. But your point remains!!

 

[kinabaloo]

"It is important to shake/mix your eliquid well before testing, especially thicker VG mixes. I have personally tested VG mixes, without shaking, and got results almost twice as high or low as they should be. After shaking the eliquid and retesting, the results were where they should be. This tells me the nicotine can separate after sitting for a while, and the 1ml sample I extract to test with has a much higher or lower concentration than the rest of the juice."

- eLiquid DIY Nicotine Test Kit

Kurt, or anyone - thoughts? Could the nicotine itself or the water or alcohol content at least partially de-mix, wth the nicotine preferring one or the other? I've not seen this with PG. I don't have any VG-nic to look at atm. I might try out the idea.

If this can occur, it has implications for DIYers too.

If anyone has VG-nic mixes in clear bottles that have been sitting for say a week or more, any sign (from color) of un-mixing?

 

[Prettycat191]

For some people it seems more of a vendetta, and for other reasons than those that we see.

I imagine that not every bottle from those batches will be bad, it seems like their batch numbers are way too large and spread out for them to have been mixed altogether, unless they have a giant container that they mixed them in. If they're as small of a company as I've heard speculated, then I doubt that.

Fact is, they screwed up, and it's highly unlikely that this many people that are so widespread are trying to just do away with BE. Fact, they ignored the issue and claimed it wasn't possible, fact, they mislabeled some items, fact, the numbers are off, sometimes way off. I'm waiting to see what happens now, and any speculation is just that, speculation. I think that things will change for the better on the vendor levels, but I'm worried about a government take-over now as well.

 

[kinabaloo]

Excellent points! And thanks for your responses. I would add that probably almost all fruit flavors would give inaccurate results, since so many of them have organic acids in them, even if they don't taste tart.

Yes, not only citric.

Kurts right to say that tobacco flavorings have many potential false positives but I suspect they will turn out not to interfere significantly; only way to find out is to try it (even with a home test kit).

 

[mostlyclassics]

Said Prettycat191,

I'm worried about a government take-over now as well.

Me too. I'm going to double-up on my nicquid acquisition program now, with this having happened.

 

[tiburonfirst]

Tiburonfirst, you are correct. At the end, the thread had too much chit chat on it, so I am assuming that Roly closed the thread to preserve the integrity of the original post with the serious topic at issue.

shucks, girl, you're very formal today

but it really is a shame that a thread with serious implications was hijacked that way. we all like to goof around now and then but it should not have happened there.

i'm hoping things worked out for the op but unless he/she posts we'll never know.

i, for one, really appreciate kurt's work and, having gotten to know him, would never doubt his integrity. i always thought we are placing a lot of trust in our vendors and really don't know how accurate their mixing skills are.

 

[markfm]

I'd agree with that (shaking before testing), at least for final eliquid purposes, the combination of nic base, flavorings in different bases, and filler PG/VG.

When I mix 0PG, in particular, it takes a lot of shaking so that I can test vape and get something that will be at least an approximation of the final flavor. Even then I know that the eliquid will mature with some time (anywhere from a few days to a few weeks), that the components take time to fully meld.

If the flavorings have not yet dispersed to the point where there is a homogenous mixture, I would expect that the nic concentration would likewise have some variability in a final eliquid. A "flavor pocket" where I am tasting a lot of one flavoring might coincide with a nic void.

I've heard of some people using a warm water bath on the eliquid bottle, a few have mentioned trying a bottle in their ultrasonic cleaners, to speed up the mixing, in addition to shaking.

When my home test kit comes in I plan on trying it against my nic base plus against some DIY with different flavorings, just to see what the skew looks like for the things I use

 

[carpedebass]

I'm worried about a government take-over now as well.

Not to worry. This industry doesn't generate enough money for the government to consider regulation at this point. However, they will likely use incidents such as this in the future after the money is there. Still very much a concern.

 

[mgordon1100]

Said Prettycat191,



Me too. I'm going to double-up on my nicquid acquisition program now, with this having happened.

I wouldn't be too worried about it too quickly. Do what I do. Watch the news. When you see this story hit the news, then you can start to worry. It seems to me that the government worries about things when the masses of people worry about things. If the general public doesn't know about our little snafu in this relatively small community, then it usually stays this way....small and unnoticed by everyone.

 

[GoodDog]

Thank you Seabrook! Some people just need to learn when to keep their agendas in check and not attack everything that can lead them to talking about their issue. I'm hoping smallmam has consulted with an attorney and that's why she's not on here posting.

 

[kinabaloo]

@Seabrook - sent you a PM

 

[Prettycat191]

Not to worry. This industry doesn't generate enough money for the government to consider regulation at this point. However, they will likely use incidents such as this in the future after the money is there. Still very much a concern.

I think it generates a lot more revenue than we know, after all, there are vendors that we don't even know about because there are so many. Once the big tobaccos decide to get in on this little niche that we have, it will all be over too. I would prefer to keep it small-time like we have now, but that's not gonna happen, and it's only a matter of time before the government decides to regulate us. The question isn't if, it's when; and I imagine it's going to happen sooner than we think now that this has happened. Definitely sooner than it might have had.

I wouldn't be too worried about it too quickly. Do what I do. Watch the news. When you see this story hit the news, then you can start to worry. It seems to me that the government worries about things when the masses of people worry about things. If the general public doesn't know about our little snafu in this relatively small community, then it usually stays this way....small and unnoticed by everyone.

Good for you on sticking to your guns and leaving lol. Make up your mind will you?

Facebook is like wildfire, like throwing a lit match into a field when there's a fire warning. Spreading this on facebook is definitely going to spread the word to others that aren't vapers, and it's just going to add more fuel to the fire. If we could contain it now, that would be great, but once a fire starts, it's a major undertaking to put it out.

I can see this going on the news, and real soon, the more it spreads the more people are going to be concerned about it, which means the media outlets will be all over it.

 

[mgordon1100]

Facebook is like wildfire, like throwing a lit match into a field when there's a fire warning. Spreading this on facebook is definitely going to spread the word to others that aren't vapers, and it's just going to add more fuel to the fire. If we could contain it now, that would be great, but once a fire starts, it's a major undertaking to put it out.

I can see this going on the news, and real soon, the more it spreads the more people are going to be concerned about it, which means the media outlets will be all over it.

Facebook? What does Facebook have to do with this?

Good for you on sticking to your guns and leaving lol. Make up your mind will you?

Fine, I'm leaving now.

 

[Prettycat191]

I didn't say leave lol.

There have been several people that mentioned seeing it on facebook or seeing/having discussions about it on Facebook.

 

[mgordon1100]

I didn't say leave lol.

There have been several people that mentioned seeing it on facebook or seeing/having discussions about it on Facebook.

Oh, that's smart. Who's the genius that started that? No, let me guess. We don't want to start any rumors.

I have to leave. It's almost time for work.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Yes, Prettycat, the cat is out of the bag (no pun intended). This will change the vaping world...no way to stop it.

cheers,

 

[Kurt]

Yes, not only citric.

Kurts right to say that tobacco flavorings have many potential false positives but I suspect they will turn out not to interfere significantly; only way to find out is to try it (even with a home test kit).

I would not be able to say that with confidence myself. A 15% flavor is probably around 8% actual flavor notes. You might be right, but the range and variability of flavored juices makes me want to just avoid that for now. Realize that mixes of weak acids and bases can make for an amphoteric solution, which would really change everything. This applies to the citric acid pH-lowered juices too. Amphoterics would require a very different approach. Doable, but much trickier.

 

[Seabrook]

Oh, that's smart. Who's the genius that started that? No, let me guess. We don't want to start any rumors.

I have to leave. It's almost time for work.

According to this post, Facebook was spammed with the news.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...blem-nic-titration-results-3.html#post4565754

 

[pinellaspete]

Wow is this thread moving fast!
By the time I read through and get caught up I have to leave to do something else.

I have a question though, about something I noticed during the Kurt, Cozz and CEO discussion the other night.

Does BE have any chemists on staff?
Every time Kurt and Cozz would start talking to the CEO about his chemist's, he would come back with "My INDEPENDENT chemists."
There is nothing on their website that says anything about mixing custom chemicals. I think they are just a reseller that stumbled into the nicotine business. The CEO never really mentioned his chemists doing the testing in house anywhere in the conversation the other night, or in his e-mails. That could explain the QC issues. The CEO doesn't have qualified staff doing or checking the mixes. They probably impact his pocketbook too much.

Does anyone know if there are chemists actually employed at Box Elder?

Pete