Houston, we have a problem...BE nic titration results

[McDougal]

Are we talking about the same government that just classified pizza as a vegetable?

The FDA certainly has its problems, because of conflict of interest. Many of their officials are directly tied to the corporations they are supposed to regulate. The whole e-cig fight is a perfect indicator of how skewed they really are to big pharma.

 

[Switched]

This whole situation is why I have no problem whatsoever with FDA regulation of e-cig juice. To those who want to bring up taxation, that is a completely different issue at the state level.

The problem with shady companies is that they often change their name and the name becomes a shell for the same company. Hopefully, enough people are keeping an eye on this.

Kurt, thank you for doing the vaping community an incredible service, as your work on this and transparency regarding these companies is very, very important.

I am all for regulations, but the FDA is the last entity I would trust to do so.

 

[rkayw]

What Switched...you don't want to see FDA regulate and mandate a 'Surgeon Generals warning' on e-juices, nic, etc?

I read that warning every single time I picked up a pac of analogs...didn't you?

(just teasing guys, hoping to ward off another long FDA debate...don't go livid on me. lol)

 

[McDougal]

I am all for regulations, but the FDA is the last entity I would trust to do so.

They certainly are toothless toward corporations they are tied to. That being said, just remember every meal you eat that was bought at the store or restaurant and every drug you take that you trust to be safe is regulated by the FDA. The FDA isn't the problem- for-profit interests within the FDA are the problem.

 

[BardicDruid]

This whole situation is why I have no problem whatsoever with FDA regulation of e-cig juice. To those who want to bring up taxation, that is a completely different issue at the state level.

The problem with shady companies is that they often change their name and the name becomes a shell for the same company. Hopefully, enough people are keeping an eye on this.

Kurt, thank you for doing the vaping community an incredible service, as your work on this and transparency regarding these companies is very, very important.

In 2009 the FDA showed how they want to regulate ecigs, they banned them, I really don't think they've changed they're stance since then. I don't want a government enity that gets most of it's money from corporations against ecigs regulating them, if they didn't ban them then they would mandate the liquid to be no more than 4mg/ml like NRT's. I can't stay off analogs with less than 10mg/ml, we need our own self regulating scheme.

 

[McDougal]

In 2009 the FDA showed how they want to regulate ecigs, they banned them, I really don't think they've changed they're stance since then. I don't want a government enity that gets most of it's money from corporations against ecigs regulating them, if they didn't ban them then they would mandate the liquid to be no more than 4mg/ml like NRT's. I can't stay off analogs with less than 10mg/ml, we need our own self regulating scheme.

In April, the FDA stopped fighting e-cigs because they got shot down in court. They have conceded to regulate them, and I have no problem with them doing so. That being said, I would strongly oppose regulating the mg count in juice that low, although it will always be legal to mix your own juice anyway. The FDA wanted to regulate e-cigs as drug delivery devices, which would put manufacturers out of business because of the cost. The court rules that they must be regulated as a tobacco product instead, and many manufacturers were pushing for that.

 

[Switched]

They certainly are toothless toward corporations they are tied to. That being said, just remember every meal you eat that was bought at the store or restaurant and every drug you take that you trust to be safe is regulated by the FDA. The FDA isn't the problem- for-profit interests within the FDA are the problem.

I won't argue with the latter part of your statement, but you seriously need to take them rose coloured glasses off my friend within the scope of your middle statement. Does Monsantos mean anything to you?

 

[oldsoldier]

And what exactly does the FDA have to do with Kurt's nic titration results and Box Elders QC and PR issues?

 

[brittanyNI]

And what exactly does the FDA have to do with Kurt's nic titration results and Box Elders QC and PR issues?

My guess? Just as someone being injured by a firearm (most especially semi-automatic military pattern rifles wielded by nutjobs) is invariably used as an excuse by those who dislike the 2nd Amendment to put forth legislation restricting and regulating firearms; when we already know the FDA wants e-cigs banned, any accidents (or especially deaths) that would result from an unregulated nicotine supplier selling a poisonous chemical to laypersons in the wrong concentration would serve as justification to re-examine those regulations.

In a nutshell: if the industry does not self-regulate simply out of a sense of basic responsibility if not self-interest, ultimately failures such as those revealed by Kurt will result in death or serious injury that will serve to justify regulation or banning.

That's how the two tie together.

 

[oldsoldier]

actually that was a reminder to stay on topic...

 

[hubseven]

My guess? Just as someone being injured by a firearm (most especially semi-automatic military pattern rifles wielded by nutjobs) is invariably used as an excuse by those who dislike the 2nd Amendment to put forth legislation restricting and regulating firearms; when we already know the FDA wants e-cigs banned, any accidents (or especially deaths) that would result from an unregulated nicotine supplier selling a poisonous chemical to laypersons in the wrong concentration would serve as justification to re-examine those regulations.

In a nutshell: if the industry does not self-regulate simply out of a sense of basic responsibility if not self-interest, ultimately failures such as those revealed by Kurt will result in death or serious injury that will serve to justify regulation or banning.

That's how the two tie together.

Absolutely no doubt about it. In 100% agreement, that's why this industry better step up and get in front of this thing.

 

[Seabrook]

OP has not logged onto ECF since that post on September 30.

Sea, this has been bothering me, too. At first I thought the OP's lack of response may have been due to people coming down pretty hard on those who spoke up. Now I'm not so certain. Surely admin or one of the mods could email him to see if he's okay, couldn't they?

I am happy to report that OP Aut0tek of the thread, Box Elder Nic is Wayyyy Too Strong, has posted on Facebook recently. I was concerned since he kept vaping the mega dose juice.

A personal friend of mine (UntamedRose) is a friend of his on FB. She gave him a poke to let him know that indeed his nic was wayyyy too strong.

Rolygate locked the other thread, so there is no other place to post it than here, and it was first mentioned here, so just a follow-up.

 

[rkayw]

Great news Sea! Glad to hear that he has been heard from. Thanks for letting us know.

 

[Kurt]

I am in the lab now, and am getting things prepped for increasing precision for this round of tests, and future. Goal is to add another significant figure to the final levels measured. This will take some time, since I have to restandardize the HCl to higher precision. I am stating these things to underscore that just because your calculator tells you 36.035482 mg/mL does not at all mean that is what you can claim. You genuinely have to pay for every digit you can trust, literally. If you get this result with a kit, that number is actually 36 mg (2 sig figs), at best.

Stay tuned.

 

[Hoosier]

Kurt, not to discount what you are doing, but is another significant digit worth the effort?

Are you not already at 3 sig digits?

 

[rolygate]

We have opened a new forum, QC Research and Testing:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/qc-research-testing/

Not entirely sure how it will work yet, but the facility is there for those who want to use it.

 

[markfm]

Not sure about this thread, but at least perhaps the other two threads that kinabaloo was kind enough to start, related to at home testing and results, might go there? (assuming kinabaloo agrees, of course)

 

[aut0tek]

Wow. Look what kind of a storm I started. Lol. Yes, Seabrook. I don't know how/why, but you guys found me on fb. To catch you up on things (This will be far less scientific), I noticed the error, and continued using the nic at a much lower amount than math would give me, and, while it was still never correct to taste (I made it low nic on purpose), the nic was enough for me to experiment with my DIYs without being 0% nic and/or wanting to smash inanimate objects without reason. Dumb move? Probably. Did I die? Not yet. It takes far more than that to kill folks from WV.

I'm glad you guys said something, especially after BE called me out in their mass email (needless to say, I fired a LOVELY heart-felt email right back). I don't get on these forums extremely often, mainly because I'm very busy. Fulltime school, small business, swim coach, ham operator, and now volunteering with the Civil Air Patrol.

I'm also glad someone who's seriously up on their chemistry is working on this. It'll make things better for literally everyone (Except a couple pocketbooks).

Thanks,

-aut0tek

 

[kinabaloo]

Not sure about this thread, but at least perhaps the other two threads that kinabaloo was kind enough to start, related to at home testing and results, might go there? (assuming kinabaloo agrees, of course)

I think the test kit threads are more aimed at DIY-liquid people (i.e. home use) whereas the QC forum would be focused on the vendor/supplier/manufacturer level (that would include testing of course but as applied to companies'QC processes).

Home use DIY Kit testing in DIY forum. Industry scale testing procedures and protocols in the QC forum. That's my suggestion.

So I think the DIY kits are fine in the DIY forum but it's no big deal, as long as I can find them

 

[retird]

Roly....thinking out loud here....would there be any issues if a thread was started under the new forum, QC Research and Testing: where the quality controls and testing methods of a manufacturer or vendor could be listed for all to see. IMO this would be beneficial to all vapers as well as good PR for the consciencious manufacturer/vendor...just asking.....???

We have opened a new forum, QC Research and Testing:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/qc-research-testing/

Not entirely sure how it will work yet, but the facility is there for those who want to use it.