How can shops sell clones?

[MrPopular]

how can shops get away with selling clones? is it just me or is that weird its like there selling counterfeit stuff and i thaught that was illegal? you dont find any legit shops selling "clone" designer products why do people buy these clones knowing its only hurting the mod maker isnt it illegal to sell fake stuff in america


like who said clones were cool to sell but every other counterfiet item is illegal

 

[DEAc23]

I've heard that it's because the vaping related items that are being cloned aren't patented, and that patent/copyright laws are pretty much nonexistent in China (which is where the majority of vaping related items are made). Don't take my word for it though, as I'm just going off what I've heard.

I'm sure someone who is more informed on this subject will chime in eventually.

 

[MrPopular]

well all counterfeit stuff comes from china and i dont go too the malls and see fake gucci and what not it just seems odd to me that this is the one thing it seems where counterfeiting is allowed

 

[Blackboar]

There's quite a debate about clones. Lots of different views on the subject. Here's my take on it. So the following is all personal opinion.

When I first started vaping, I thought I would never get a clone. Having different hobbies in life, where clones really hurt the industry, I absolutely would never buy anything that was a clone and even reported the clones I found while browsing to the forums I frequent, so others could stay away from them.

However!!! In vaping, I have actually found the opposite. Because of the nature of vaping, this is more than just a luxury hobby for many people. It is helping people quit smoking. The existence of clones means people can vape quality devices for prices that are within their budget range. And it helps them stop smoking. That, to me, justified the existence of clones.

Another reason is availability. As a knife collector, I don't mind waiting 5+ years on a waitlist for a specific maker to make me my custom knife. As a vaper, however, I don't want to wait any length of time for a device that is helping me get off smoking. And for me personally, if I just pick up whatever is available at the time and settle, I don't think it would have swayed me off cigarettes. So buying a clone, while waiting for an original device is something I feel is working for me.

Now the big pet peeve of mine. Like many others, while I have learned to appreciate vaping clone devices, CLONE VENDORS: STOP PUTTING THE LOGOS ON YOUR DEVICES!! I would rather you identify your clone and leave it branded with your brand or leave purely sterile, but don't etch the original maker's trademarks and emblems on it.

That's my rant.

 

[MrPopular]

There's quite a debate about clones. Lots of different views on the subject. Here's my take on it. So the following is all personal opinion.

However!!! In vaping, I have actually found the opposite. Because of the nature of vaping, this is more than just a luxury hobby for many people. It is helping people quit smoking. The existence of clones means people can vape quality devices for prices that are within their budget range. And it helps them stop smoking. That, to me, justified the existence of clones.

Another reason is availability. As a knife collector, I don't mind waiting 5+ years on a waitlist for a specific maker to make me my custom knife. As a vaper, however, I don't want to wait any length of time for a device that is helping me get off smoking. And for me personally, if I just pick up whatever is available at the time and settle, I don't think it would have swayed me off cigarettes. So buying a clone, while waiting for an original device is something I feel is working for me.

that makes perfect sence too me now as why clones are around in local shops

 

[TheJakeBailey]

Here we go again... Lol.

In before Maurice.

 

[MrPopular]

Here we go again... Lol.

In before Maurice.

whos that lol

 

[k702]

Look at the cereal section of the grocery store. You'll find generic brands of everything, cheaper and more constantly in stock. They are the same cereal with a different package and name. same thing happens with tools, toys, on and on. The only real difference in the case of mod clones is that the companies tend to clone the thing entirely. The logos and such being mimicked down to fake serial numbers makes it a bit different. But then again my generic bag of "magic stars" looks just like lucky charms if you put them next to each other. right down to the shapes the last time I had both in the house..

 

[Vicshalls]

Not sure about ecig clones, but for other things are the market the company that makes the off brand of things is usually owned by the original maker. so either way they are getting their money.

 

[Weizenheimer]

As long as they aren't trying to pass them as authentic, then it isn't that big of a deal. In many cases it doesn't hurt the makers of the originals at all, because they only plan on making a finite amount or are only capable of making a finite amount, and they still sell them all anyway.

 

[jrs99]

Here we go again... Lol.

In before Maurice.

*keeps mouth shut*

I will say most other forums (not vaping related) usually don't even allow counterfeits to be discussed at all.

CLONE VENDORS: STOP PUTTING THE LOGOS ON YOUR DEVICES!! I would rather you identify your clone and leave it branded with your brand or leave purely sterile, but don't etch the original maker's trademarks and emblems on it.

I actually really do agree with this.

*sits back and waits for Completely Average to make an appearance*

 

[TheJakeBailey]

whos that lol

There is a very long, very heated thread over in The Apv forum. Maurice had a lot to say in that one. He is very passionate on the subject.

 

[zahzoo]

At one point, cost was a factor and mechanical mods and rebuildables (RDA, RBA's) was just tiny segment for the hobbyist types and folks drawn to shiny objects... I've now come to the conclusion that it's more the explosive market dynamics that are driving the "clone" market now.

There was a time, when an engineering type and a custom machine shop developed something and produced a limited run. Expensive but cool. Few of these shops invested in Intellectual Property rights... patents, trademarks, etc or possibly submitted the forms. But before they could blink or even purchase more raw stock their product was sold and hyped on the net around the globe.

Add in some very smart entrepreneurs in China paying attention to vapers growing by the millions worldwide. Then combine that with huge metal fabrication shops centrally located in the Shenzen district in China who could quickly reverse engineer simple metal machined parts. They pounced on the market quick to meet this explosive demand.

Some question why all these nameless manufacturers are cranking out thousands of mods and attys almost at 1:1 clones down to the logos and serial numbers... Well the simple truth is most of these manufacturers aren't in the e-cigarette industry. They are contract machine factories that can quickly set-up and tool their production lines for whatever product is ordered. One minute that are building mag-lite type flashlights, the next spark plug components... then next day 5000 Nemisis mods. Given the factory is just a nameless parts producer... they don't care as long as they keep the machines running and the cash flowing.

Bottom line there's no way original, authentic manufacturers could keep pace with demand and now the cost pressures and volume have moved them back to the hobbyist realm they started at.

 

[crxess]

Edited - Never mind, worthless rehash of rehashed BS.

I.e. - Weekly meeting of the Drama Club

 

[p7willm]

There are two parts to this. One is legal and is up to the laws. The other is moral and is up to you.

Legally the manufacturer has to do something to get a patent (on a new process or device. For a mechanical device these days I can't think of anything you could get a patent on) or a trade mark (basically a picture you put on stuff you make to indicate that you make it.) I have not seen any indication that any vaping product has any of these protections. So, legally, anyone can copy anything and not even say it is a clone. A nice thing most of the clone manufacturers do is that they do not try to pass their products off as the original. I have seen nemesis by hcigar.

A patent or trade mark is granted by a country. It is not world wide. In another country there is no protection. Coke is a trade mark in most countries in the world. Coke had to go to each country and apply for a trade mark according to the laws of that country. If the manufacturer has chosen not to get a patent or trade mark in a country, for example China, then people there can do what they want.

When the product that was legal in China is brought into the US it becomes illegal. Customs main job is to collect money for bringing stuff in and homeland security tries to stop bombs, even if they do not violate patents. If customs opens a container, something they rarely do, and sees a bunch of nemasises they have no idea if they are real or fake and as long as they have been declared and duty paid they seal up the container and send it on it's way. It is up to the trade mark holder to point out to customs that illegal clones are coming in. If the holder does nothing they will loose the trade mark. The holder must defend the mark.

If you have a patent you may have to take someone to court for violating it. Your claim can be attacked in two ways. They could claim your patent is invalid. They could show that swiping to unlock was not created by you. There might be some other company with some other product before you that used swipe to unlock. They could claim that they do not violate your patent. When you got your patent you specifically said swipe left to right and the other product swipes right to left (you should sue your patent attorney at this point for being stupid).

This is far too much trouble and expense for most small businesses.

The moral side is much more of a mine field. The company that thought up the idea deserves to get paid for it. On the other hand have you tried to buy a real stingray from the manufacturer? We could argue forever on if it would be OK if they did not copy the etching or make it from brass as opposed to steel and that is for another thread.

 

[Rocketpunk]

..........

 

[tj99959]

When folks don't protect their intelectual property with a © it becomes "open source", and free for anyone to use. Hell, even my coffee cup has a © on it.
Copyrights Registration Services | LegalZoom

 

[Tom Servo]

Now the big pet peeve of mine. Like many others, while I have learned to appreciate vaping clone devices, CLONE VENDORS: STOP PUTTING THE LOGOS ON YOUR DEVICES!! I would rather you identify your clone and leave it branded with your brand or leave purely sterile, but don't etch the original maker's trademarks and emblems on it.

Agreed. That can lead to real confusion on the part of new users. I found out the hard way with an "authentic" Russian 91 that wasn't.

One of my local B&M's sells a few clones, but they're all clearly marked as such. If asked, the employees will tell you if there's a difference in quality.

 

[Nikkita6]

Here we go again... Lol.

In before Maurice.

Okayyyyyyyyyy Redundant, and vapid.

 

[NathanielFT]

I appreciate the work that goes into the originals, but at the same time I hate having to join an ever lasting waiting list for a brilliant product that's never in stock and pay a crazy amount for a device that will often cost no more then £40 to make.

I waited months for certain mods to be available, and they never did! When trying to get them 2nd hand, people take full advantage of the exclusivity of it and sell it for well over the RRP and what they paid themselves - is this any more acceptable?

I hate the cheap crappy knockoffs, but I welcome companies like Hcigar, Infinite, Ehpro, etc. with open arms for mass producing 1:1 replicas of amazing devices so people who aren't well off, well connected, or prepared to get into debt can enjoy them too, keep em coming I say