How can shops sell clones?

[ppeeble]

I once bought a (way too cheap) watch off Ebay thinking it was a Seiko. When it arrived it was branded as a 'Sekio'.
That was a case of deliberately branding a product to imitate another brand. I laughed at my own greed and kept it as a lesson......

I will buy a copied device without any qualms if it works as well as an original. The bottom line for me (and most people) is 'am i getting value for money'. If the answer is yes then 99% of people will make that purchase.
Most consumers buy original or branded products because they want some sort of guarantee of quality. When you're talking about a metal tube that holds a cell then the 'quality' is not so much a big deal. It just has to work.
Small, elitist mod manufacturers don't care about copies as long as there are enough hard core fans to purchase the product they have manufactured. Today's must have mod / atty is tomorrows classified FT/FS.
Probably

 

[Completely Average]

How many times do you have to be told that Atomixani has licensed the graphic from Anne Stokes?
I know it's been a few times already.

I've heard it said. I have yet to see it proven.

And even if they have, so can anyone else. If Hcigar were to pay royalties for the same logo then theirs wouldn't be counterfeit either, would it?

 

[MrKiltYou]

I've heard it said. I have yet to see it proven.

And even if they have, so can anyone else. If Hcigar were to pay royalties for the same logo then theirs wouldn't be counterfeit either, would it?

I'll bite...

Your correct from the logo point of view if they also licensed it in the exact same sketching and form factor your are correct that would not make it a counterfeit. However that is not the only marking that all Nemesis counterfeiters are using...

Also unless you can prove Atomixani hasn't licensed the logo you should drop that point.

 

[Completely Average]

By way of the classified section here is how ECF defines clone and counterfeit:

And I'm sure those definitions work great for an internet forum that is trying to protect itself from potential fraud claims.


But that misses my point entirely. A "clone" is a very vague thing in the world of mech mods. Many "original" mech mods are in fact using cloned parts from other mech mods or even flashlights that came before it.

For instance, virtually all tube mods use the same types of materials and tubes with similar dimensions. Many are even threaded the same and you can interchange parts from different manufacturers. They all use very similar top caps and the bottom firing mods all have buttons with similar designs. Sure there are some variations, but those variations aren't huge, and certainly don't count as unique inventions. They could just as easily have been dictated by what parts were available at the local hardware store as any deliberate design changes.

Without the graphics most original mech mods are little more than clones themselves.

 

[minimalsaint]

Anyone remember when sigelei cloned the nzonic top cap? What a scandal that was, and look how far it's come since then lol.

 

[Muggs]

That was the Sigelei 19 scanadal right? It would be an Nzonic clone with that cap or something.

 

[MrKiltYou]

Without the graphics most original mech mods are little more than clones themselves.

I don't disagree that almost mech mods use prior art. But take the Hcigar SS Nemesis "Clone" which is actually a counterfeit since if you place them side by side and you will not be able to tell which one is authentic and which is counterfeit.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

They are sold in shops here in the states because it is legal to do so.

I am passionate about the clone issue ... being had is painful thing to experience.

I don't like the practice of cloning however practical or easy it makes access to the design you happen to like and never have.

Finding out you just handed over legitimate mod quantities of cash for a clone is a bit disconcerting, I'm sure it happens in our industry more often than we might like to admit.

In any case, I have a clone too, and the fact that it cost me as much as a real mod chaps my rear just a bit more than I can convey without some more colorful words the forum censors don't like.

So there you go, it's legal, and that's about the extent of it.

Maurice

 

[HoseGarden]

im all for piracy

the more the merrier

 

[klynnn]

Buy from places that you know sell clones and label them as such. I don't have the time or money to search vendors that charge 2/300.00m for their battery tube. As a retiree I have to live on a budget and all that it entails. I spent too many years making cigarette companies rich now I do it my way. You all can make them rich. I'm done.

 

[Completely Average]

I'll bite...

Your correct from the logo point of view if they also licensed it in the exact same sketching and form factor your are correct that would not make it a counterfeit. However that is not the only marking that all Nemesis counterfeiters are using...

Also unless you can prove Atomixani hasn't licensed the logo you should drop that point.

Why drop a hypothetical point?

As you said, my actual point is correct. Unless the graphics are exclusively owned or exclusively licensed then the original mod makers are just as guilty of making "counterfeits" as anyone who clones their mods.

The rest of it is just an argument of semantics because you don't like having to admit that point.

 

[daviedog]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

zzzzzzzzzz..

 

[MartyZ]

I am honestly glad there are clones out there. As someone in this thread stated, I am one of those individuals that would love to vape a quality device, but just don't have the funds available or the patience to wait on a list. So I am guilty of purchasing clones. And I love them. In fact because of the clones, I was able to get my mother, who has heart issues, to switch from cigs to vaping with a nemesis clone. She had tried to switch before using the blu, but that did nothing for her and she just went back to regular cigs.

 

[acka]

I've heard that it's because the vaping related items that are being cloned aren't patented, and that patent/copyright laws are pretty much nonexistent in China (which is where the majority of vaping related items are made).

I was wondering about this. I've noticed that Chinese goods aren't cloned though (at least not by name/logo). I know it sounds weird, why would they, but for example the VAMO board on Fasttech is listed as VOMO. Maybe this is a typo but I was thinking they won't f with Chinese manufacturers in the same way. Maybe just because they're closer but maybe there's a bit more caution to f with another's products over there, you could get well, sorted out. They also have a juice that looks really like Hangseng available but again the name is changed, Huab0ng. None of the blatent counterfeiting that occurs with American/European products.

This puts the 'patent' argument in a bit of doubt imo. They know what they're doing is illegal/out of order, they just feel they can get away with it. I doubt they'f f with Apple in quite so open a way.

I realise I could have got this completely wrong, it's just half felt intuition, and VOMO could be just a typo but it seems like they know they're taking the p1ss and they'll get pulled up on it if they do it on their own doorstep.

 

[klynnn]

Looks like vamo to me. https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10004394/1454100-vamo-v2-variable-volt-watt-apv

 

[acka]

I clearly said board $11.64 VOMO V5 Variable Voltage/Wattage Mod Module - 3.0-15.0W / 3.0-6.0V / 0.6" OLED at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

 

[MrKiltYou]

Why drop a hypothetical point?

As you said, my actual point is correct. Unless the graphics are exclusively owned or exclusively licensed then the original mod makers are just as guilty of making "counterfeits" as anyone who clones their mods.

The rest of it is just an argument of semantics because you don't like having to admit that point.

You should drop the point because you have no proof that Atomixani stole the art. You can not point out to a single source that says that they have. You are using that point to form an argument that falls apart if they have indeed licensed the art.

What point do I not want to admit to? I have agreed and given you credit where due. I also have not done so in a disgruntled manner.

I have no issue with companies like Hcigar making a Nemesis clone. What I do have an issue with is with using all of the art and markings of an authentic product. While the original sellers marketing it as a clone that does not stop someone downstream from marketing as an original or for the end user from representing it as an original.

 

[K_Tech]

....because there's a market for them?

Seriously though, putting aside ethics and international copyright and trademark arguments aside for a moment, it's what the consumers want.

Is it "wrong"? I can't touch that because I own clones (and originals). All I can do is justify my purchases, I can't tell you how it's okay using footnotes and case history.

 

[klynnn]

If you want to make a vamo out of a vomo circuit board go for it.

 

[acka]

If you want to make a vamo out of a vomo circuit board go for it.

So why don't I have to pretend a Nomesis is a Nemesis?