How can shops sell clones?

[Completely Average]

how can shops get away with selling clones? is it just me or is that weird its like there selling counterfeit stuff and i thaught that was illegal? you dont find any legit shops selling "clone" designer products why do people buy these clones knowing its only hurting the mod maker isnt it illegal to sell fake stuff in america

like who said clones were cool to sell but every other counterfiet item is illegal

First, unless the original mod is protected by registered trademark and/or patents then they have no protection.


I know a lot of original mod owners like to think these things are special, but they just aren't. None use anything proprietary, they are ALL based on prior work, meaning that the concept and basic designs of the parts already existed and at most mech mod producers are simply refining other peoples work from the start.

The artwork on some of these mods is also a gray area. If it's not copywritten artwork then it's not protected and anyone can use it. In some cases there are mod producers using artwork from professional artists without giving any credit to the real artist who did the work. (For example, the graphic on the Nemesis, which was produced by Anne Stokes, not that you'll find ANY of that info on Atmomixani's website)



So, I guess the real answer here is that people can sell clones of mech mods because the originals are just copies of other peoples work themselves.

 

[inter_ceptor00]

I'm more surprised that some Chinese entrepreneur hasn't come out with a higher-quality design of his own. As already mentioned, all these original and clone mods are all the same functional design with different aesthetics. If we want we could, as a forum, probably group-buy ourselves a communally designed mod direct from Shenzhen and have it for less than any originals currently and it would be a true original at that. hmmm...

 

[Johnny Phatsaqs]

I'm more surprised that some Chinese entrepreneur hasn't come out with a higher-quality design of his own. As already mentioned, all these original and clone mods are all the same functional design with different aesthetics. If we want we could, as a forum, probably group-buy ourselves a communally designed mod direct from Shenzhen and have it for less than any originals currently and it would be a true original at that. hmmm...

Seems all they'd have to do is add or remove some sort of graphic to a tube. Not real difficult.

 

[Weizenheimer]

I'm more surprised that some Chinese entrepreneur hasn't come out with a higher-quality design of his own. As already mentioned, all these original and clone mods are all the same functional design with different aesthetics. If we want we could, as a forum, probably group-buy ourselves a communally designed mod direct from Shenzhen and have it for less than any originals currently and it would be a true original at that. hmmm...

Yeah I have also wondered why some of them don't just make original products. Especially the impending Hana Modz DNA 30 clone. Why bother? Why not just make their own original DNA30 mod? Anyone who can mass produce a decent quality DNA 30 mod and sell it for the 80 bucks they are going to could probably make a killing. Hell someone who could do it (mass produce) and sell them for 200 would still probably make a killing.

 

[MrKiltYou]

Seems all they'd have to do is add or remove some sort of graphic to a tube. Not real difficult.

Then they would have to market it themselves where as when they clone the can trade on someone elses marketing and fanfair....

 

[tj99959]

So is a Nemesis clone with no graphics on the tubes a Nemesis clone?

 

[MrKiltYou]

So is a Nemesis clone with no graphics on the tubes a Nemesis clone?

Technically it would still be a clone but less of a counterfeit...

 

[tj99959]

Technically it would still be a clone but less of a counterfeit...

Technically it's not a counterfeit if the graphics are not © protected.

 

[MrKiltYou]

Technically it's not a counterfeit if the graphics are not © protected.

1
: made in imitation of something else with intent to deceive : forged <counterfeit money>
2
a : insincere, feigned <counterfeit sympathy>
b : imitation <counterfeit Georgian houses>

With graphics in place it would be an imitation thus a counterfeit.

 

[tj99959]

1
: made in imitation of something else with intent to deceive : forged <counterfeit money>
2
a : insincere, feigned <counterfeit sympathy>
b : imitation <counterfeit Georgian houses>

With graphics in place it would be an imitation thus a counterfeit.

You forgot to add the definitions according to law.

 

[MrKiltYou]

You forgot to add the definitions according to law.

Why do I need to add the definition by law? Of course most "clones"/"counterfeits" are legal. I am not making a legal argument here. I am just calling a spade a spade. They are in fact by the definition of the word a counterfeit. People just seem to hate that word...

And as a matter of full disclosure I own 3 counterfeit mods, 3 counterfeit atty's, 1 authentic mod, and 2 authentic atty's.

 

[TheColdHandedVG]

I'm surprised no one mentioned the fact that original devices are clearly over-priced (unless someone did say it and I missed it). Tell me how a clone manufacturer can make a mod that is 1:1 using the same exact materials and everything is exactly the same yet they can charge $30 for it instead of $200 the original manufacturer is charging? Oh, that's right, they are just straight up ripping people off. I don't even slightly understand how someone can say that no one should buy clones because you are hurting the original manufacturer, etc, etc, etc and yet the clone manufacturer has made it perfectly clear that the cost of manufacturing the mod in the first place is extremely low and the original manufacturer is intentionally putting a 2000% markup on their product. Why would you feel bad for the manufacturer when they could care less that they are overcharging you?

And another thing, if the original manufacturer puts a product out on the market with no sort of protection, such as a trademark, then they deserve what they get. Why should we, the consumer, avoid products that look exactly the same if the manufacturer didn't feel like wasting their time or money to protect themselves? There is no good reason for us to even care. Now, if the manufacturer did take the time to protect themselves and there are still manufacturers copying their work, that is a different story, but I am yet to see this be the case.

 

[tj99959]

What I'm trying to express is that if a persons intelectual property is pirated, it's their own damn fault. It only costs about $100 to have it © protected.

 

[Completely Average]

1
: made in imitation of something else with intent to deceive : forged <counterfeit money>
2
a : insincere, feigned <counterfeit sympathy>
b : imitation <counterfeit Georgian houses>

With graphics in place it would be an imitation thus a counterfeit.

Does Atmomixani pay for the graphic? It's not theirs, they didn't create it, and they don't own it. If they aren't paying royalties for using it then theirs is just as much a counterfeit as anyone else's.

If an original mod is graphic-free is a graphic-free clone a counterfeit?

 

[jrs99]

How many times do you have to be told that Atomixani has licensed the graphic from Anne Stokes?
I know it's been a few times already.

 

[MrKiltYou]

Does Atmomixani pay for the graphic? It's not theirs, they didn't create it, and they don't own it. If they aren't paying royalties for using it then theirs is just as much a counterfeit as anyone else's.

I believe in the other thread it was stated that it is believed that they have a license from the author to use it. I have no proof of that nor anything to refute it.

If an original mod is graphic-free is a graphic-free clone a counterfeit?

If it is an exact replicate and completely indistinguishable from the original I would believe so. For me just something needs to be different; whether that is the removel of graphics, the addition of a graphics, or a physical difference from the original for it to not be considered a counterfeit.

 

[TheColdHandedVG]

If an original mod is graphic-free is a graphic-free clone a counterfeit?

If it meets the definition of 'counterfeit' then yes, it is a counterfeit. Like he said, he is just calling a spade a spade, there isn't much else to it and he isn't bashing counterfeits.

 

[LDS714]

When the product that was legal in China is brought into the US it becomes illegal. Customs main job is to collect money for bringing stuff in and homeland security tries to stop bombs, even if they do not violate patents. If customs opens a container, something they rarely do, and sees a bunch of nemasises they have no idea if they are real or fake and as long as they have been declared and duty paid they seal up the container and send it on it's way.

Actually the percentage of containers opened depends on the destination more than anything.

But one of the things they do check quite often is country of origin. I've seen lots of containers full of merchandise mislabeled as to the country of origin destroyed because it was cheaper to ship a correctly labeled replacement container than to relabel the products. So in that regard, the majority of the Russians, Kayfuns, and mods with "Made in {anywhere but China}" should be flagged when they're caught. It wouldn't take much for the original manufacturers to let Customs know this is happening.

Now, there is something the manufacturers can do to enlist the help of Customs. If they know forgeries or counterfeits are being imported, they can notify Customs. One of the most Diligent is Disney. Each port of entry receives what amounts to a monthly catalog from Disney of merchandise or products that are known to be counterfeit and suspected of being imported illegally. Very little of it gets through.

 

[LDS714]

What I'm trying to express is that if a persons intelectual property is pirated, it's their own damn fault. It only costs about $100 to have it © protected.

Ha! I wish.

I've seen ringtones for sale made from songs I hadn't done final mixes on yet.

 

[MrKiltYou]

By way of the classified section here is how ECF defines clone and counterfeit:

Unacceptable
Counterfeit - Counterfeits will basically be an exact replica of the original and not so much tied to the shape as it is more the markings. The shape would come into play if there are unique characteristics of the device. This can include grooves, cutouts, coloring, or trademarks in specific locations.

Acceptable
Clone - Can be similar in size, shape, and even design but will not contain the same markings or colors. As long as the device can be distinguished as different from the original, not just by the word clone, it will be considered a clone. Just by declaring a device a clone in it's title or description will not necessarily make it a clone. The clone device should be absent of all characteristics contained in the original, grooves, cutouts, coloring, or trademarks.