How safe is DL vs MTL vaping....

[vapdivrr]

Again, there is no proven fact that the more juice you consume equates to more harm. You drink 500 ml of tap water per day. I drink 1000 ml of tap water per day. The amount can not be debated, the numbers are fact. But what is unknown is the amount of bacteria and heavy metals (not Metallica) in each of our tap water. Both water supplies could be well below safe limits. But without further analysis one cannot conclude based on a single value that one consumption is safer than the other.

Also, wattage can not be a gauge to factor harm without taking into account the many other variables. Removing all variables, and if using the same metal, what has the higher delta temperature for the same duration. 10 watts into a 30mg coil or 50 watts into a 150mg coil? The answer is both are the same! So again, assuming all else is equal, which becomes more harmful? The reality is all all else is not equal and the variables are unknown - so without further analysis based on individual setups, styles and frequency we can not conclude.

every time this discussion comes up, people avoid the question with extra b/s. Simple question, is vaping less better? Not coil heat, wattage, etc. Yes many variables, but if everything is equal and no coil is overheating, blah blah blah, is vaping less better? Imo, yes

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[Zaryk]

every time this discussion comes up, people avoid the question with extra b/s. Simple question, is vaping less better? Not coil heat, wattage, etc. Yes many variables, but if everything is equal and no coil is overheating, blah blah blah, is vaping less better? Imo, yes

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

With MTL I held the vapor in my lungs longer than when I DL, so that could also be a determining factor as well. Just because I have more vapor come out of me when I DL, it doesn't mean my body absorbed more chemicals. When I did MTL my lungs had much more time to absorb what was inhaled and could very possibly make it less healthy. But without research it's all going to be speculation, since science doesn't always follow what common sense makes us want to believe.

 

[ppeeble]

Common sense dictates that (with all things being equal) inhaling 30mls of liquid into your lungs is going to be worse than inhaling 5mls. Worse, in this case, simply means your body will have to work harder to metabolise the liquid which isn't exhaled.
There are simply too many variables to determine if one set-up is potentially worse than another so the original question cannot be answered without more details. And even then the answer will not be evidence based because there isn't any evidence available.
TLDR;
I don't know

 

[Bunnykiller]

MTL/DL ummm I dont understand.... doesnt it still go thru you mouth to get to your lungs in DL mode?????

or are we talking tracheotomy type of vaping?

 

[Punk In Drublic]

every time this discussion comes up, people avoid the question with extra b/s. Simple question, is vaping less better? Not coil heat, wattage, etc. Yes many variables, but if everything is equal and no coil is overheating, blah blah blah, is vaping less better? Imo, yes

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

I answered the question – how is that avoiding it? And what is b/s is the condescending remarks! If you want to ignore the variables, especially the ones that CAN produce more toxins, then that is your choice. The question may have been simple, but that does not mean we should ignore the details!

 

[YorkMan]

We just don’t know. Bet we won’t know in my lifetime. What if vaping is beneficial to lung health? Maybe VG soothes the irritation from all the particulate matter that we breath. Is that possible? If I were a young man I’d be cautious, but I’m not.

I spent most of my career designing water treatment plants. Tap water can be problematic as modern water treatment is a delicate balance between microbiological and chemical quality (chlorination vs disinfection byproduct formation) as it relates to cancer and waterborne illness. Have you heard of emerging contaminants? We are drinking them.

Life has a certain amount of uncertainty.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

We just don’t know. Bet we won’t know in my lifetime. What if vaping is beneficial to lung health? Maybe VG soothes the irritation from all the particulate matter that we breath. Is that possible? If I were a young man I’d be cautious, but I’m not.

I spent most of my career designing water treatment plants. Tap water can be problematic as modern water treatment is a delicate balance between microbiological and chemical quality (chlorination vs disinfection byproduct formation) as it relates to cancer and waterborne illness. Have you heard of emerging contaminants? We are drinking them.

Life has a certain amount of uncertainty.

Well said. And my earlier comment on tap water was not to compare consuming water vs vaping (as one eluded to before editing their post) – but to demonstrate that we cannot draw a conclusion based on a single value when other variables are involved.

 

[YorkMan]

Yes, way too many variables especially since we don’t know anyway. Makes for good arguments though.

I’m comforted that after 10 years it’s an open question.

 

[Electrodave]

I was comforted by something my neurologist told me last week. He told me he had lunch with three pneumonologists not long ago (he's the asst chief of staff at the hospital he works at). He brought up the subject of vaping. All three agreed that they'd rather deal with whatever problems may arise from vaping than from what they know tobacco will bring. None of the three had ever treated a vaping related problem, either.

On edit--I might also observe that Denver has a lot of vapers.

 

[Eskie]

We just don’t know. Bet we won’t know in my lifetime. What if vaping is beneficial to lung health? Maybe VG soothes the irritation from all the particulate matter that we breath. Is that possible? If I were a young man I’d be cautious, but I’m not.

I spent most of my career designing water treatment plants. Tap water can be problematic as modern water treatment is a delicate balance between microbiological and chemical quality (chlorination vs disinfection byproduct formation) as it relates to cancer and waterborne illness. Have you heard of emerging contaminants? We are drinking them.

Life has a certain amount of uncertainty.

You raise a great analogy with water treatment. Here in NYC the water is treated with Chlorine, rather than the more commonly used Chloramine which is a bit more controversial. One big change they made here was bringing a UV sterilization facility online to reduce the need for chemical treatment altogether for a few Billion dollars. But it is is like vaping, harm reduction by reducing the risk of bacterial contamination versus the expense and risks of chemical or other forms of treatment.

There are other things than just formaldehyde and VOCs produced with vaping. One issue is microparticulates. These are not just in vapor, but in the air you normally breathe as a form of pollution. These are teeny tiny particles of several microns that can get way into the the small air sacs of the lungs and can't get cleared out like the normal clearance of larger stuff that's done by specialized cells that line the larger airways. A recent study of 650 locations (primarily urban and industrial settings) worldwide found higher MP levels were associated with higher lung disease (and it's not so much just a correlation issue as MPs are known to cause lung disease so exposure is just plain bad). Me, I'd rather vape than live next to a coal fired power plant. Risk as always is relative.

 

[DaveP]

Vaping has only been popular for about 10-12 years as far as I know. Some effects from various chemicals and gases seem to show up after long periods of time, so maybe we don't know what a lifetime of vaping will produce vs a decade or less. We do know that vapor doesn't contain known carcinogens or other dangerous chemicals as cigarette smoke has been proven to contain (unless you exceed the temperatures that produce Acrolein and Dyacetyl.

Vaping shouldn't be considered absolutely safe. It's a great way to get off the cigarette habit, but non-smokers should avoid vaping. Why introduce something into your lungs that you don't need?

 

[Toronnah]

Studies have found that smokers of full flavor or unfiltered cigarettes tend to get lung cancer in the upper lung while smokers of light and extra light cigarettes get their lung cancer in the lower lung.

The less restrictive cigarettes are pulled lightly. The stiff draw has the smoker inhaling harder.

It could be extrapolated to vaping

 

[dennism]

Does any one use 50pg/50vg for dtl(subohm) vaping?

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Does any one use 50pg/50vg for dtl(subohm) vaping?

Yes. It is not a ratio I specifically look for, but I do vape juices that only come in that ratio. I will also follow a DIY recipe if it was made to that ratio, but will also make a sample of a higher VG to sample against.

 

[vapdivrr]

I answered the question – how is that avoiding it? And what is b/s is the condescending remarks! If you want to ignore the variables, especially the ones that CAN produce more toxins, then that is your choice. The question may have been simple, but that does not mean we should ignore the details!

Sorry , your right, you did answer it....its the whole discussion that gets me....every time this comes up, the main question sort of gets avoided with things like "we simply dont know" or "it depends on this or that" . My opinion is, whatever how much one vapes, were still better off than smoking, so do whatever as long as we are not smoking. On the other hand, why would vaping be disqualified from "the more you do, the worse it is"? Every crutch or addiction is looked at as the more the worse, like smoking, drinking, drugs, bad foods, etc. You cant say to your doctor, "yes, I smoke 4 pad, but they are very low in nic, or I only hold the smoke for one second, or , I dont get the cigarette that hot...how about defending 4 juicy hamburgers a day, saying, " well it's better than eating one hamburger that may have been undercooked.... there are other variables, I agree, but with all things being equal, the bottom line is, if you do these things in moderation, it's simply healthier.....I just think it's a weird question to even ask if vaping more is worse, to me it's just common sense, but some honestly think that there is absolutely no difference to vape continuously all day compared to someone vaping 2mls all day......my apologies

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[vapdivrr]

Well said. And my earlier comment on tap water was not to compare consuming water vs vaping (as one eluded to before editing their post) – but to demonstrate that we cannot draw a conclusion based on a single value when other variables are involved.

Yes your right, I did edit it because I didnt get what you were saying at first

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[Beamslider]

Definitely better than smoking. I used to cough up dark brown phloem back when I was smoking a pack and half a day, I no longer do that and overall my health has improved a lot. I no longer get short breath walking up a few flights of stairs or hills. I sleep better and just feel better.

I started out mouth to lung with very high nicotine content. Overtime I reduced the nicotine content. I switched to DTL and have gone from my last MTL vape of 4 mg/ml between 10 and 15 ml daily down to 1.5mg/ml and around 10 ml a day.

I would say for me it might be better as it is less quantity wise in a day

 

[Tabac man]

Of course it's entirely possible to be skipping around feeling great and suddenly drop dead or get some disturbing news after a check up. Just saying.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Sorry , your right, you did answer it....its the whole discussion that gets me....every time this comes up, the main question sort of gets avoided with things like "we simply dont know" or "it depends on this or that" . My opinion is, whatever how much one vapes, were still better off than smoking, so do whatever as long as we are not smoking. On the other hand, why would vaping be disqualified from "the more you do, the worse it is"? Every crutch or addiction is looked at as the more the worse, like smoking, drinking, drugs, bad foods, etc. You cant say to your doctor, "yes, I smoke 4 pad, but they are very low in nic, or I only hold the smoke for one second, or , I dont get the cigarette that hot...how about defending 4 juicy hamburgers a day, saying, " well it's better than eating one hamburger that may have been undercooked.... there are other variables, I agree, but with all things being equal, the bottom line is, if you do these things in moderation, it's simply healthier.....I just think it's a weird question to even ask if vaping more is worse, to me it's just common sense, but some honestly think that there is absolutely no difference to vape continuously all day compared to someone vaping 2mls all day......my apologies

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Thank you for the response. I understand what you are saying, but as you feel lower consumption is healthier, I feel quality of consumption needs to be factored in. I am not saying more is better, or even equal. I am saying that by neglecting the quality of the vape as in the toxin’s it may produce can very well sway the results. Vaping 2ml per day at high temperatures can easily be more damaging than vaping 10ml per day at low(er) temperatures. And without knowing the details we cannot generalize! There can also be a point of diminishing returns – 2ml per day at toxic levels vs 60 ml per day at less toxic levels as an example. But again, without knowing the details we are making assumptions. When assessing risk, one cannot work on assumptions - for doing so you may assume risk, not mitigate it

The question asked was, is MTL safer than DTL. Either action has their equivalent risk. How each action is performed by the individual will dictate what is more of a risk vs the other. And the amount of total e-liquid consumed within a duration is only one variable of many.

What is also fact – now that you brought up hamburgers, I am now hungry. (picks up phone, logs into Uber Eats which IS harmful to ones health!!)

 

[Janusz]

MTL is safer for avoiding full blown dry hits.