How to Get Around Future E Cig Taxes

[Mogar]

I really don't think they can legislate to the point where DIY ingredients will become impossible, even difficult to get. tax nicotine? fine, even if they tax it 100% thats still like $60 for a years worth of nicotine. ban online sales of nicotine? Absinthe was illegal in the US for a while, however there was nothing stopping you from buying aroma therapy oils that just happened to look,taste, and have the same effect as absinthe.

Sorry if someone else didn't chime in on this, LTDR 44 other pages. This statement above made me laugh...
Unfortunately it is not 100% tax that they are talking about. it is a 0.04 cent per MG per ML. Sounds great huh??? Wrong. Try paying $1,500.00 for a $60.00 bottle of nicotine if you DIY... (100 mg 375 mil bottles etc) Granted those that buy over the counter or at a B&M shop will be paying $14.40 for a 12 mil strength 30 mil bottle btw that is TAX ONLY not the cost of the juice, so some premium juices at $25.00 per bottle will run you $39.40. See where we are going here???

I am not sure if this can be done, however. You can purchase bulk Nic and you only have to pay tax on what you sell.... So give it away. All juice in the shop is 0 nic and sold as is. When they order the juice and after you pay, the shop can ask you "do you want some nic in that?" and add the nic. As long as it is not sold, it wont be taxed. I am not sure on the legality of doing this but something has to be done.

 

[Rossum]

Few reasons:
- some of us are not located in US

Based on the member map, it does not appear that being located in the US is a requirement.

- some prefer to not be members of any organizations in general

I'm not a "joiner" either, but organization is how people accomplish things that an individual would incapable of himself. Remember that those on the other side are well-organized.

- some are shills / trolls

Yes, clearly, although the most obvious ones have "moved on".

 

[stevegmu]

I cannot fathom why anyone who is a member of this forum hasn't joined CASAA. Joining doesn't cost a penny; it's FREE. It doesn't obligate you to anything either. But every additional member gives the organization a bit more clout and credibility in their interactions with the machine.

When I first joined ECF I would read the calls to action and proposed legislation and ask why the discrepancy between the CASSA summaries and bills, and was told that is the best they could do. Organizations who rely on sensationalism, rather than fact, aren't very appealing to me...

 

[zoiDman]

You're assuming I only donated $10. That's a bad assumption.

I Didn't make that Assumption.

 

[Robino1]

Done ** Confirmation number: 1N931066U5285182Y

So, any other takers. Money talks and [self-regulation] walks. We want something done and "done" takes money and effort.

I have been donating. A monthly charge comes out of my account automatically. I have been doing this for about a year(?). It is a recurring charge

Please pardon my cynicism. But I think the key words
in your statement are "if well spent".

Meetings, hotel rooms, pseudo lobbyists, salaried staff, administrative costs...
I'm sorry but I don't think dog tags or t-shirts will cut it.
With all due respect to my card carrying dog tag wearing vaping colleagues
from my perspective some of these organizations look more like
social clubs for vaping snobs and old ladies than
militant activists with a mission.

Regards,
Hazy

CASAA is made up of Volunteers. If I am remembering correctly, one person is paid as an adviser(?). I would have to do some digging on that. Probably shouldn't even comment until I have my facts straight.

ETA: Forgot to comment on the dog tags: That is a different organization which does require payment to join.

 

[soysos]

So, should I assume you would support a new, "reasonable tax" on manufactured foods also??

"this type of regulation costs money"... well, OVERregulating costs even more. Should we have to pay more taxes to cover the expenses of new insane "regulations" that were not even needed in the first place?

They already are. Food service operations pay a licensing fee to pay for their inspections, while industrial food production pays a per pound tax. Since these are paid by the producers rather than the consumer most people aren't aware.

For the record yes I do support them. I want to know that my meat came from healthy animals, I want to know that my canned goods weren't rotten, and I want to know my food was made in a sanitary environment.

 

[zoiDman]

In all reality all they have to do to shut it down is put a strangle hold on the nicotine. Why bother going after the tanks and mods, etc. if you can make the nicotine unavailable to the consumer? Without the e-liquid to put in the tanks no one will buy them, or the mods that power them. Except for the well stocked up DIYer. And that's just not enough folks to keep the industry churning.

Ding - Ding - Ding.

Winner Winner, Chicken Dinner.

The FDA knows that Trying to Regulate/Restrict Hardware is going to be Problematic. Because if a piece of Hardware is not Advertised as or Sold with a "Tobacco Product" that they have Very Little Authority over it.

It's the Nicotine that is the Head of the Snake.

And that is why Anyone who uses an e-Cigarette should Fear these Two Words. "Closed System".

 

[V8porism]

Here's an idea...

It is legal to grow tobacco for personal use.

This idea is geared toward facilitating growth of tobacco for personal use and extraction of nicotine for personal use of e-juice.

What if we had co-ops throughout the country where members could grow our own tobacco? We could set this up in a way that abides by all laws.

Perhaps we could have our own spaces (either rented or owned) at these locations.

We may be able to pay membership dues to hire horticulture staff members to maintain our tobacco for personal use & staff members to assist in extraction of nicotine for personal use.

There are tons of community gardens and food-growing co-ops throughout the country that could serve as examples of how to work out something like this.

 

[stevegmu]

Here's an idea...

It is legal to grow tobacco for personal use.

What if we had co-ops throughout the country where members could grow our own tobacco? We could set this up in a way that abides by all laws.

Perhaps we could have our own spaces (either rented or owned) at these locations. We may be able to pay membership dues to hire horticulture staff members to maintain our tobacco for personal use.

There are tons of community gardens and food-growing co-ops throughout the country that could serve as examples of how to work out something like this.

If i wanted to go back to smoking full time, I would just go to the local tobacco store and buy the stuff your own tobacco I was buying- Kentucky Select Organic, for $15lb...

 

[V8porism]

If i wanted to go back to smoking full time, I would just go to the local tobacco store and buy the stuff your own tobacco I was buying- Kentucky Select Organic, for $15lb...

My idea is geared toward facilitating growth of tobacco for personal use and extraction of nicotine for personal use of e-juice.

 

[stevegmu]

My idea is geared toward facilitating growth of tobacco for personal use and extraction of nicotine for personal use of e-juice.

If I were to go that route, I'd just buy that $15 bag or organic tobacco. In the end, I'l just keep buying e-liquid from the online vendors I buy from now, however...

 

[zoiDman]

If i wanted to go back to smoking full time, I would just go to the local tobacco store and buy the stuff your own tobacco I was buying- Kentucky Select Organic, for $15lb...

If this Bill passes, your days of buying Cheap bulk tobacco sound like they will be Numbered.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/450/text?q={"search":["s450"]}

And before you say it, I know what you are going to Say...

"These Bills Never Pass. So there is Nothing to Worry About."

 

[stevegmu]

If this Bill passes, your days of buying Cheap bulk tobacco sound like they will be Numbered.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/450/text?q={"search":["s450"]}

And before you say it, I know what you are going to Say...

"These Bills Never Pass. So there is Nothing to Worry About."

That's what they have been saying on the RYO forums for a decade...

 

[Rossum]

Growing tobacco is not that hard. Extracting and purifying the nic is.

 

[zoiDman]

That's what they have been saying on the RYO forums for a decade...

Yeah... But you Can't Win Todays Game with Yesterdays Score.

 

[stevegmu]

Yeah... But you Can't Win Todays Game with Yesterdays Score.

A version of that bill has been introduced every year for years. With the current makeup of Congress, it won't pass this year, either...

 

[AndriaD]

I'm not a "joiner" either, but organization is how people accomplish things that an individual would incapable of himself. Remember that those on the other side are well-organized.

Same here; I'm the quintessential "lone wolf" but, since I enjoy vaping and value it hugely as a way to stay smoke-free, I could easily see that it behooved me to join CASAA, in light of all the idiocy surrounding it, and coming "regulation". There *is* strength in numbers, as our opponents figured out long ago.

Andria

 

[zoiDman]

A version of that bill has been introduced every year for years. With the current makeup of Congress, it won't pass this year, either...

I dunno.

By including e-Liquids that contain Nicotine into that Bill, it would make Passage Very Enticing.

There is also that 16 Trillion (that's Trillion with a "T") Dollar ever present hole to think about.

 

[V8porism]

Growing tobacco is not that hard. Extracting and purifying the nic is.

Maybe not. Check this out...

***This is from an old ECF thread. It's not my post. I'm providing attribution by quoting the author and including the link.***

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/54156-method-i-used-extract-nicotine.html Originally Posted by: BurnRubber on 12-26-2009, 09:49 PM

"Here's my kitchen-utensil method for making some DIY e-juice:

1. I mixed 6 oz (volume) of loose American Spirit Certified Organic tobacco with 3 oz boiling hot (microwaved separately) distilled water in a french coffee press.
2. Mixed everything up good with a butter knife, then poured in 8 oz NOW brand USP VG and mixed again.
3. Placed an extra paper coffee filter under the mesh on the press to filter out more particulates.
4. Placed in fridge, waited about 24 hours with the press above the mixture, cap on with aluminum foil sealing up the plunger and cap from fridge-flavor MMMM!
5. Took it out after 24 hr, let it warm up enough to thin out the viscosity, then pressed the plunger down slowly until bottomed out on the solids.
6. Re-filtered with the cleaned press again, using another coffee filter to get out more particulates.
6. Filled up a sterilized stainless liquor flask and some dropper bottles, and stored in my cool dark closet.

There's very little particulates in the liquid, and they settle in the bottles anyways. The process was not stinky at all, and didn't make a big mess in my kitchen. I accidentally breathed some steam when mixing it up, and I didn't OD or feel buzzed or sick. Got some on my hands, didn't feel a thing, and just washed it off. It's weak stuff, still good to wash up after contact.

The results:
-The taste is great, like smoking a filtered AS Organic analog, but without the smoke, mild, sweet, and vanilla/nutty tasting. Almost tastes like honey when I dropped a little on my tongue. I tried it out with some vanillin flavoring, and it works nicely together, although the vanillin makes it harsh.
-Stronger pipe tobaccos would work well with this method I think, since the flavor I got was very subtile, just like smoking the organic tobacco. I don't know of any natural or organic pipe tobacco blends out there, but they probably exist.
-It leaves some brown residue in the KR8 cartomizers, and starts to taste kinda stale after 5 refills. I gutted a dead carto, and found that it doesn't completely rinse out of the packing closest to the atomizer, possibly due to tar or particulates getting caught. Maybe the extra alkaloids carmelize on the atomizer packing that gets hottest, it didn't smell burnt, just stale and cooked.
-Mad vapor since it's VG based, it could use a little dilution to make my KR8 draw easier, but not too bad as it is right now. It makes huge clouds of tasty vapor.
-Throat hit is nice and smooth, not harsh like the PG cartomizers I've tried out recently. I actually like this stuff to refill the pre-filled PG cartos, since it mixes flavor well with the Kamel and Coffee flavors quite well, and smooths out and richens the experience. The PG cartos make me cough and burn my throat, just dripping a couple drops into the battery end makes them much more acceptable to my system.
-Nicotine, Idunno. I'm sure there's some in there, but not much since it doesn't buzz me like the 36 and 24mg cartos do, but it does satisfy the urge to smoke so I guess mission accomplished. I never got a buzz off of cigarettes once I became hooked, so I might use this stuff to accent the flavor and dilute my commercial tobacco e-juice and cartos to a level that's appropriate and to save money. I want to go to the pool store and get the chemicals to test the nicotine content eventually, but as it stands now the stuff is definitely safe. I can chain-vape this stuff and not feel sick from overdosing like I do from the commercial cartos. I do, however like the commercial cartos because they provide a quick fix when I'm busy at work (like analogs), so I won't be buying weak cartos or bringing them to work until I can step down my cravings. Inattention and red mist is no good in my line of work, gotta be sharp as a razor at all times to be safe.
-Alkaloids, toxins, tar, impurities? Idunno, I'm a race car mechanic not a chemist. This stuff definitely hits "a" spot, not "the" spot like an analog smoke, but close. This is similar to Tropical Bob's Snus tincture, I got the idea from that and used organic tobacco since I've smoked organic or all-natural cigarettes mostly, as a "reduced risk" measure.

Now I don't have to combust the crap to get the nicotine and flavor I like! [insert image of Spagett soaked in wet tobacco here, "Good News, CIGARETTE JUICE!"], damn noob rules, the picture's so funny!

Like the forum says: Do so at your own risk, this was my positive experience and yours could be completely different or poisonous. You, and only you are responsible for your own actions. This is just my way of trying something out to save money and ride out the ban if it should so happen." - http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/54156-method-i-used-extract-nicotine.html Originally Posted by: BurnRubber on 12-26-2009, 09:49 PM

 

[zoiDman]

Maybe not. Check this out...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/54156-method-i-used-extract-nicotine.html

BurnRubber 12-26-2009, 09:49 PM

"Here's my kitchen-utensil method for making some DIY e-juice:

...

Just Curious.

When you Tested your NET Solution, what Nicotine mg levels did you find?