I am so glad I never gave you any money.

[Mac]

Today, Salmon leads the Electronic Cigarette Association with very specific rules: they don't make health claims, don't sell to minors, and say they shouldn't be sold at kiosks in the mall. And just like real cigarettes, they should not sell flavors targeting children."

So now you want to take my job away? What did I ever do to you? Why do you want me to be unemployed? I have never sold to a minor. I have made no health claims. I have made no cessation claims.

I retract every postive statement I have ever made about your organization. You are no better in my book then ASH or the FDA.

SHAME ON YOU!

 

[Mac]

Why do you feel you have the right to be in business but I don't? How can you justify attacking mall kiosks through your Association when they are your competition? Is this not a conflict of interest?

What the hell did I ever do to you??????????

I have done NOTHING unethical. I have hurt No ONE. I have made no cessation or health claims. I have never refused to honor a warranty. I have never sold bad product or sold product to a minor.

I have just as much of a right to sell e-cigs as you. If you and your organization succeed and put me out of work I promise that I will dedicate my life to making sure that you lose your jobs as well.

 

[Synthnadz]

I sympathize with your situation, I really do. But don't you already have your explanation? Most - yes most - mall kiosks are indeed tossing around false claims and ripping people off. That is the reason that organizations interested in overcoming the pushback against the rise of vaping are interested in squashing out vendors who's efforts are counterproductive to legitimizing vaporizers. Unfortunately, the majority of mall kiosks fall into this category.

Does that mean that your anger is unwarranted? Absolutely not. But you do have your explanation. All that you can do now is respond to it by either doing something constructive to overcome it, or by finding a new way to grow your business.

Good Luck!

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Mac -

I am certainly looking into this further. I have not received any Press Release that states such, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

I did find one article... but unfortunately, it wasn't a quote from Matt, but a synopsis of one journalists beliefs being attributed to Matt, so I can't make any kind of assumption as to whether he said it or not. I am seeking clarification.

Electronic cigarettes under fire for targeting Arizona kids - Phoenix Arizona news, breaking news, local news, weather radar, traffic from ABC15 News | ABC15.com

 

[Mac]

I sympathize with your situation, I really do. But don't you already have your explanation? Most - yes most - mall kiosks are indeed tossing around false claims and ripping people off. That is the reason that organizations interested in overcoming the pushback against the rise of vaping are interested in squashing out vendors who's efforts are counterproductive to legitimizing vaporizers. Unfortunately, the majority of mall kiosks fall into this category.

Does that mean that your anger is unwarranted? Absolutely not. But you do have your explanation. All that you can do now is respond to it by either doing something constructive to overcome it, or by finding a new way to grow your business.

Good Luck!

I find that explaination flawed. The industry does need regulation. That doesn't mean it has to be hidden in the corner or a taboo item you can only find online. If someone behaves unethically whether in a storefront or at a kiosk or online they should be accountable. Especially if it endangers someone. That has nothing to do with this BS. And BS is what it is. NO one at the ECA is stupid enough to believe that strawberry eliquid is made to sucker in children and none of them are blind enough to not see the CLEAR conflict of interest. This is a group of very intelligent and well organized people. What would you do if a group like that started trying to eliminate your job???

 

[PlanetScribbles]

I find that explaination flawed. The industry does need regulation. That doesn't mean it has to be hidden in the corner or a taboo item you can only find online. If someone behaves unethically whether in a storefront or at a kiosk or online they should be accountable. Especially if it endangers someone. That has nothing to do with this BS. And BS is what it is. NO one at the ECA is stupid enough to believe that strawberry eliquid is made to sucker in children and none of them are blind enough to not see the CLEAR conflict of interest. This is a group of very intelligent and well organized people. What would you do if a group like that started trying to eliminate your job???

I agree with you. It's like saying that some people own dangerous dogs, therefore all domestic dogs should be culled. Quite clearly a stupid statement based on a biased view of a legitimate activity. Owning a dog is no more outrageous than selling an PV thru a mall kiosk. If done in a responsible manner. I see it as sucking up to the man, something I am absolutely not prepared to do. Not when my hobby is completely legitimate and relatively harmless.

 

[Mac]

Mac -

I am certainly looking into this further. I have not received any Press Release that states such, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

I did find one article... but unfortunately, it wasn't a quote from Matt, but a synopsis of one journalists beliefs being attributed to Matt, so I can't make any kind of assumption as to whether he said it or not. I am seeking clarification.

Electronic cigarettes under fire for targeting Arizona kids - Phoenix Arizona news, breaking news, local news, weather radar, traffic from ABC15 News | ABC15.com

If this is a misrepresentation of your group by a media outlet I would be extremely upset if I were you. It will alienate a large number of people who could be allies to you. It reflects very poorly upon the moral compass of the ECA. You should contact them and have them retract it immediately. If that is the case please let me know as I will owe you all an apology and will be happy to publicly retract anything bad I said about your organization. I believed in you guys before this! I still believe we should all be united. I feel betrayed and hurt by this.

 

[evil1rox]

I think the "flavoring" (flavouring- for my British peeps )argument is flawed at best.

Yes kids like sweet things..but who doesn't? It's almost as if they are implying "If it doesn't like crap it's being marketed to kids."

Edible underwear are basicly made of fruit roll ups.. those must be targeted at children. Ouzo is sweet...incidious .......s are trying to get kids drunk!! Many beer makers add berries, honey, orange peel etc to their brews...obvious child endangerment..

Wish they had used this much energy to "stop the marketing" from marketing to kids when I started smoking M-boro reds at 12 yrs old.

E

 

[navyboym]

Its my beleif that, the people who are making false claims at these kiosks, are the ones who are souly responsible, unless of course the company that the product is being sold for at this kiosk is making and encouraging those same false claims. But you're right the resposibility lays with the people making the false claims, and those are the people who need to be held accountable, not punishing 100% of the kiosk market to fix 10% of the bads ones. The flavouring again I beleive lays in the hands of the individual, and it should be illegal to sell to minors.

 

[Shining Wit]

I sympathize with your situation, I really do. But don't you already have your explanation? Most - yes most - mall kiosks are indeed tossing around false claims and ripping people off. That is the reason that organizations interested in overcoming the pushback against the rise of vaping are interested in squashing out vendors who's efforts are counterproductive to legitimizing vaporizers. Unfortunately, the majority of mall kiosks fall into this category.

Does that mean that your anger is unwarranted? Absolutely not. But you do have your explanation. All that you can do now is respond to it by either doing something constructive to overcome it, or by finding a new way to grow your business.

Good Luck!

Playing Devil's Advocate, Most - yes most - tobacco companies kill people with their product. Are cigarette kiosks/shops banned?
Do you have clear statistical evidence with supporting documentation that most kiosks are operating in a 'corrupt' manner or is it a case of 'well everbody knows they are'? or you just don't like the idea.
What the kiosk sells is somewhat irrelevant as there will be someone somewhere offended by what is on sale, be it ecigs, edible underwear, wind-up false teeth etc etc. The dilemma is whether we sacrifice our freedom to trade openly like most other traders in exchange for acceptance?
I believe the common term is 'selling out'.
John.

 

[MatrixXx]

It seems that noone likes e smokers (organization wise ) because they are getting away from analogs. Aka money makers. Aka huuuge tax revenue. They don't care about your health; just money. Some groups will do anything to stop competors even if it means making bogous statements.

Sorry to hear that, and good luck at convincing someone to act hummane.

 

[ladysolitary85]

Mac I completely get what your saying and I agree with you wholeheartedly.

It's not your fault that the other guys who worked at the kiokos in the mall decided to do dumb moves and make false claims and sale to minors.

As I've said in another thread. No I.D.? no service. For their safety and the minors safety that's how it should be.

There needs to be some sort of ground where everyone is happy but I know its not going to be that way. All you can do is just be true to yourself, be true to your customers.

 

[quetzacoatl]

Today, Salmon leads the Electronic Cigarette Association with very specific rules: they don't make health claims, don't sell to minors, and say they shouldn't be sold at kiosks in the mall. And just like real cigarettes, they should not sell flavors targeting children."

So now you want to take my job away? What did I ever do to you? Why do you want me to be unemployed? I have never sold to a minor. I have made no health claims. I have made no cessation claims.

I retract every postive statement I have ever made about your organization. You are no better in my book then ASH or the FDA.

SHAME ON YOU!

It all comes down to this: never trust a politician (even a former one) to do what's in your best interest.

 

[csa]

well said quetzacoatl

that has been my #1 rule for years

 

[AndriaMarie]

I was told that it was the FDA that was making the claims about flavor being a marketing device towards children.
They want it off the market, because they can't make money off of it.
More than that, they're losing money.
So if that's the case, maybe the ECA is trying to go with that to get the FDA on their side and save E-cigs from being banned all around.

(Going by what I hear.)

Either way it's BS.

 

[juggalojedi]

It seems that noone likes e smokers (organization wise ) because they are getting away from analogs. Aka money makers. Aka huuuge tax revenue. They don't care about your health; just money. Some groups will do anything to stop competors even if it means making bogous statements.

Sorry to hear that, and good luck at convincing someone to act hummane.

right on brother!!!!!

 

[Vista Chris]

Today, Salmon leads the Electronic Cigarette Association with very specific rules: they don't make health claims, don't sell to minors, and say they shouldn't be sold at kiosks in the mall. And just like real cigarettes, they should not sell flavors targeting children."

So now you want to take my job away? What did I ever do to you? Why do you want me to be unemployed? I have never sold to a minor. I have made no health claims. I have made no cessation claims.

I retract every postive statement I have ever made about your organization. You are no better in my book then ASH or the FDA.

SHAME ON YOU!

I agree fully Mac. And this too: they should not sell flavors targeting children

So I suppose all alcohol, and wine coolers, should taste like PBR (forgive me PBR fans ) so "the children" don't like it. Since it's obvious anything that doesn't taste like burnt ... is targeted for sale to children.

Who is targeting children. IF you ever come across any evidence that someone has actually targeted a child to sell ecigs too, then they should be held accountable. This whole 'flavors are only for kids' thing is completely ridiculous.

 

[gdogg]

I just follow the money.

Who stands to lose most, from their sale.
Tobacco and Pharmaceutical Industries.
Then remember, if you're not being taxed on that ejuice 2500%, to get tobacco equivalent amounts of tax money.

I started smoking at 9 years old. And its just as easy for me to purchase smokes now, w/o photo id as when I started buying smokes from many stores at age 11.

They really do like playing with our emotions anytime they have a corrupt agenda to push through.

Think about the children!*


*studies showed upto 5% reduction in minor use will occur from these changes**
**study is accurate to +/-5%

 

[sherid]

There are convenience stores and gas stations that sell cigarettes and alcohol to minors. Should all convenience stores and gas stations be punished and not allowed to sell cigarettes and alcohol because of a few rogues? NO, NO, and NO again. Neither should mall kiosks be ordered to stop selling e cigarettes because a few workers are rogues. Punish the rogues. There are laws already in place to take care of such things. The more some vapors talk, the more they begin to sound like anti-smokers. That is enough to make me go straight to the store and buy a carton of Marlboro Smooths and smoke them all tonight. Really, people, open your eyes. You cannot play nice nice with these people.

 

[BobFromChicago]

You can always tell when a politician is lying...his lips are moving. I for one will never join an organization like the ECA if this is how they are going to operate, i mean how can you honestly make a statement like MOST KIOSKS....have you actually been to every kiosk there is? You can't just go to two or three or even a hundred and say you been to most of them, if there is a problem with certain kiosks you go after that one and not just blanket all of them. You end up wiping out good honest business people that are trying to make a living. you know i heard of one orginazation that was bad therefore most of them must be bad so lets just ban all orginazations.....starting with you.