I don't quite understand the hype behind mechanical/fixed voltage mods.

[Shiryo]

I just got a Atmizoo Roller on Friday... It is my first mechanical mod and although it's such a beautiful mod... As hard as I try to like vaping with it, I keep picking up my ProVari. This is only because it gives me the extra vapor and flavor I need, it has that kick I need.

When I throw a SR Boge carto on the Roller with a fresh battery (so ~4.1v) I still get a better vape experience with the ProVari @ 3.9 volts. I know the reason is because of the voltage regulation etc. etc. etc. but it's just odd...

So tried vaping a 1.5ohm RBA setup on the Roller, again fresh battery and still, although better, not as great. However, the general consensus on RBAs is that most people run massive wattage on RBAs.

Just still weird how 8.0-8.3 watts on the ProVari with a Boge gives me a better vaping experience than the Roller pushing about 10 watts on the RBA...

So next month I am going to pick up a kick for my roller and hopefully that does the trick...

What is the hype over mechanical mods? I know of a couple reasons, but what about the vaping experience?

I also created a poll asking how many people run a Kick with the same general info I posted here, if anyone wants to add to the number of kick users and non-kick users...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/polls/380837-how-many-run-kick-evolv.html

 

[dirtyrigger]

Try running a .8 ohm rba on your roller, the pro vari can't handle that amp draw and won't fire but you should get a killer vape on the roller. A kick will just give you an amp limit so basically the same as a pro vari then.

 

[Thrasher]

i dont quit get it either starts out too strong them mellows out and just when it gets good it dies down, (for me anyways), i use my mech strictly for setting up coils on my geni's.

part of what you experience with it not seeming the same is the "under load voltage" when you press the button on a mech the battery voltage will sag and hold at a different voltage then say, what the multi meter says is left in the battery, whereas this sag doesnt exist in a regulated APV.

 

[CASEACE79]

Well there are benefits a mechanical mod has over the provari. As stated before a genny with low ohm coils really shines on a mechanical mod. A .8 ohm coil vapes like a train and will kick the pants off any provari. The provari just can't push 17.11 watts same reason I don't use a kick. Also anything that breaks on a mech I can replace 99% of the time at any hardware store. Mech mods also don't die if they get wet. The downside I'd the voltage drop off which can be managed if you use the right batteries. AW IMRs are highly accepted as the best batteries for vaping but for mechanical mods this isn't the case, MNKE 18650 batteries are far better. They have a 20amp continuous output which is safer than the 10amp output of the AWs when running low ohm coils. The real benifit is the voltage drop off though. AWs have a gradual degradation of the charge throughout the entire charge of the battery, whereas the MNKEs hold their charge steady throughout 90% of the battery then drop off sharply. Only downside is that they are only 1500mah.

Oh BTW even though your battery reads 4.2v at a full charge that isn't the voltage going to the atomizer. There are many points of resistance before voltage is applied to the atomizer. The mod itself being one of them. That's why you see mechanical mod makers listing what materials they are using in their mods. With mechanical mods it's all about how efficiently the mod takes the current from the battery and applies it to the atomizer. The IACS conductivity scale rates copper at 100%, stainless steel is only 3-15%, and silver is 105%. Better materials means it's more efficient.

Another point of impedance or resistance is any connector (510,901 ect). Hence the draw and popularity of hybrid devices that have the atomizer attached right to the tube of the mod. Mount the atomizer right on the battery and you have less resistance.

One point of resistance most people overlook is the battery itself. When a battery is fired (under load) it has a natural resistance depending on the quality of the battery, how many charges it's been through ect. You could literally take a brand new good quality battery and test it's charge and it'll read close to 4.2 when not being fired and when under load (fired) see very little voltage drop depending on how efficient the mod is, but if you take a battery that is of poor quality and gone through many charge cycles the battery would still read 4.2v when not being fired but when fired on the same mod have a much higher voltage drop due to the natural impedance of the battery. Many reviewers don't take this into account when reviewing a mod and use the voltage of the battery at rest vs the voltage under load to gauge the efficiency of a mod, not taking into considering the state of the battery. As you can imagine this could have a huge impact on a mod makers sales.

Mechanical mods have had one hell of a vaping career so far. In the beginning they were all that was available before vv hit the market. Then they died off for awhile with all the Provari's, Darwin's, and other VV devices that came out. Then genesis atomizers came out and now the mech mod gets a rebirth because it can do what the Provari's and Darwin's of the world can't.

Hope my rambling babble helped. If you have any other questions I'd be glad to help if I can. You really are missing out on the best vape of your life if you don't at least try a genesis with a 4/3 wrap of 28g Kanthal. Talk about blowing clouds!!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[TheSneakerHoarder]

My reason:.5-.6 ohm coils on my RBA.

 

[ninfreak]

.5.........you wanna blow your face off don't you? 27 watts at 7.4 amps.....that is nutso. yes the c rating on an aw 18650 is 10.....but you really don't want to go over 6-7

on a fresh battery you are getting upwards of 32 watts and 8 amps under load.....that is not safe

 

[thecatanddog]

I didn't either until I bought one. slapped an rba on it and now I own 11. I have sold one of my provaris and don't use the other. all I have to say is I don't think I will ever use anything but a mechanical and an RBA. its my cup of yea for sure. oh and if you wanna trade your roller for my hardly used Provari and ext cap feel free to let me know. it is the last vv device I own and don't think I'll ever use it again. id love to add a roller to my mechanical militia!

 

[t8kiteasy]

And one last point not mentioned.Mechanicals are works of art,they are a one of a kind.UNLIKE,all the VVPV's & VVVW PV's coming out today.We still use(well i do)other PV's,but i usually have one of my mech.'s with a 1-1.3ohm wrapped geni. or atty(hornet).

 

[Trick]

What they said. If you just want something that'll work well with cartos, stick to VV/VW mods. They'll work better for you.

You really need to be able to control things down at the coil level to really get the benefit of a mechanical. If you don't want to do that, mechanicals probably just aren't your thing. Nothing at all wrong with that... there's a lot to be said for plug-and-play systems, and they're a lot more flexible with less work involved than mechanicals.

I love my mechanicals, though, and my Provari's sort of become a backup PV since I really got the hang of rebuilding RBAs.

There's a bit of what t8kiteasy said, too. My mechanical of choice is the GG, and it's all mine, from where I put the brass parts to where I put the stainless parts. I think it's just gorgeous, and part of that is because I practically built the thing. Down to the last nut, it's configured how I wanted it, not how some factory thought was best.

 

[Shiryo]

Okay, THAT is where I did not know how to use a mechanical mod, lower than 1ohm of resistance?! INSANITY... Ditch the AW IMRs, sounds scary. I thought about this lastnight and all I could say is, "I've been spoiled by the ProVari and it has left me with so much to learn. So much. Vast amounts that I could have learned if I never got a ProVari."

I do not regret getting a ProVari and it makes one hell of a great out and about mod. I mean to the new and mid-level vapers, taking a ProVari out as your daily would be heresy, the cost being a factor. However the deeper you look into vaping, with the cost of just a genesis tank being the price of a new ProVari and the mods to run them efficiently in the $200-$400 range, the cost of a ProVari is almost like comparing it to the cost of say a Lavatube.

I always knew mechanical mods is where vaping becomes less of a way to kick the habit, but more of an art form in how you kick the habit. That is where I was first impressed with the GGTS, then the P+, then the Zenesis and then it just seemed to blow up and now we have Chi-Yous, Rollers, iHybrids and many others just to name a few.

Now that i'm done rambling about that... I do have questions...

I have some 32ga kanthal wire, that's a high resistance wire, I don't think I can get a .8ohm coil out of that, it'd literally be just 2 wraps if that. I'm not sure that'd be very efficient. Moreover, i'm just testing grounds right now with a Phoenix RBA, which to my standards, is not that great. I am waiting on a ScubaGen Mini V3 (Genesis style tank) that should complement the Roller nicely.

With that said, I am thinking of picking up a AGA-T2 for the time being while I wait for my SGMV3.

Moreover, I am a fond user of VG based liquids, my current favorite company Fuzion Vapor runs a 65%VG and with that being said, I have a near 12"x12" roll of 400 SS Mesh, i'm thinking for wire I might go with Nichrome80 or stick with Kanthal-A1 and raise the gauge to say 28ga to keep around 3-4 wraps but the resistance low. Thoughts on my RBA setup?

And with Trick mentioning cartos on a mechanical... Wouldn't a kick justify that? I really don't want to pocket a leaky Genesis (I don't have money to pocket something like a Cobra just yet...)

 

[t8kiteasy]

Okay, THAT is where I did not know how to use a mechanical mod, lower than 1ohm of resistance?! INSANITY... Ditch the AW IMRs, sounds scary. I thought about this lastnight and all I could say is, "I've been spoiled by the ProVari and it has left me with so much to learn. So much. Vast amounts that I could have learned if I never got a ProVari."

I do not regret getting a ProVari and it makes one hell of a great out and about mod. I mean to the new and mid-level vapers, taking a ProVari out as your daily would be heresy, the cost being a factor. However the deeper you look into vaping, with the cost of just a genesis tank being the price of a new ProVari and the mods to run them efficiently in the $200-$400 range, the cost of a ProVari is almost like comparing it to the cost of say a Lavatube.

I always knew mechanical mods is where vaping becomes less of a way to kick the habit, but more of an art form in how you kick the habit. That is where I was first impressed with the GGTS, then the P+, then the Zenesis and then it just seemed to blow up and now we have Chi-Yous, Rollers, iHybrids and many others just to name a few.

Now that i'm done rambling about that... I do have questions...

I have some 32ga kanthal wire, that's a high resistance wire, I don't think I can get a .8ohm coil out of that, it'd literally be just 2 wraps if that. I'm not sure that'd be very efficient. Moreover, i'm just testing grounds right now with a Phoenix RBA, which to my standards, is not that great. I am waiting on a ScubaGen Mini V3 (Genesis style tank) that should complement the Roller nicely.

With that said, I am thinking of picking up a AGA-T2 for the time being while I wait for my SGMV3.

Moreover, I am a fond user of VG based liquids, my current favorite company Fuzion Vapor runs a 65%VG and with that being said, I have a near 12"x12" roll of 400 SS Mesh, i'm thinking for wire I might go with Nichrome80 or stick with Kanthal-A1 and raise the gauge to say 28ga to keep around 3-4 wraps but the resistance low. Thoughts on my RBA setup?

And with Trick mentioning cartos on a mechanical... Wouldn't a kick justify that? I really don't want to pocket a leaky Genesis (I don't have money to pocket something like a Cobra just yet...)

Stay with Kanthal and go with 30-28AWG wire.Kicks can come in handy i have 2 of them and i DO use them from time to time.But if i have a sub or even close to sub ohm coil,the kick stays in it's box.As far as the mesh goes,400 works very well,just be carefull of the hot spots.I thought about getting the AGA-T2 but then decided on getting my Hornet RBA atty(smokestack) and i am glad i made the right choice there.I can get a sub ohm coil on that too.

 

[Trick]

And with Trick mentioning cartos on a mechanical... Wouldn't a kick justify that? I really don't want to pocket a leaky Genesis (I don't have money to pocket something like a Cobra just yet...)

I'm going to skim over the rest and just say that, yes, with 32-guage kanthal, to get a .8 ohm coil you'd need very few wraps. However, you don't need (and may not even want) a .8 ohm coil to take advantage of one. A little closer to 1.0, and even a bit above that, can be pretty impressive, and that's still a level most non-mechanical PVs can get fussy about. If you want more wraps, though, you may need thinner wire. A 3/4 wrap works pretty well, though, and with 32 gauge would probably come out somewhere around 1.3 ohms, probably (near-total guess there, by the way). That's low enough that a VV device might now like it (particularly if you like higher voltage), but a mechanical won't care.

As fas as Kicks go... I have a couple. They're handy, I suppose, if you like VW devices, which you're back to at that point. Sometimes it's nice as an option, though, that you can pop in when you want to use an atty or carto that needs more volts than a low-resistance RBA would. I find I rarely use mine any more, though, mostly because of the pain they are to adjust. I usually opt more for stuff like my Penelope and other leakproof, non-Genesis RBAs when I need something pocket-friendly.

 

[t8kiteasy]

The best way you can stay at a resistance for your coil is to buy a meter and run the lead across the length of the wire to get as close to the resistance you want.

 

[dirtyrigger]

Keep a carto on the provari for out and about vaping, keep the mech mod for your rba. VG wicks just as well as pg on ss wicks so you're good to go there, just make sure you get the hang of ss wicks using the provari or a resetting fuse on your mechanical mod cause everyone fights with shorts while learning how to set up a genisis type device and you don't want to kill a battery. 28g works great, i personally prefer twisted 32g wire for my coils but that is because some of my favorite juices gunk up my coil really fast and the twisted wire can survive more dry burns before breaking than 28g, ymmv, you can find instructions to twist the wire on you tube. I recommend using something like an aga on your provari with about 4/5 wrap of 32g to get you through the learning curve, then once you have your epiphany and start setting it up consistently without shorts or persistent hot spots then you start lowering your resistance until its time to drop down below what the provari can handle. I shudder to think how many batteries i could have killed if i stated with genisis on an unprotected device. Good luck.

 

[t8kiteasy]

Where is everyone getting the twisted wire at??? I can't seem to find it anywhere? Sorry did not mean to take the thread off into a different direction,just curious when i read the post.

 

[dirtyrigger]

I twist it myself. Chuck an Allen wrench or something with a hook into a drill then double over a piece of wire, use pliers to hold the loose ends and hook the middle of the wire on the drill, turn drill until it is so tight that the loop around your hook breaks. It should look like a guitar string when you're done.

 

[t8kiteasy]

I twist it myself. Chuck an Allen wrench or something with a hook into a drill then double over a piece of wire, use pliers to hold the loose ends and hook the middle of the wire on the drill, turn drill until it is so tight that the loop around your hook breaks. It should look like a guitar string when you're done.

Nice,thanks i will have to try that.

 

[Shiryo]

Stay with Kanthal and go with 30-28AWG wire.Kicks can come in handy i have 2 of them and i DO use them from time to time.But if i have a sub or even close to sub ohm coil,the kick stays in it's box.As far as the mesh goes,400 works very well,just be carefull of the hot spots.I thought about getting the AGA-T2 but then decided on getting my Hornet RBA atty(smokestack) and i am glad i made the right choice there.I can get a sub ohm coil on that too.

I never get hot spots when I build on the Phoenix, even when I use a SS Mesh wick, which I even have a video on youtube about. So I hope ill have the same luck on a true genesis tank.

I'm going to skim over the rest and just say that, yes, with 32-guage kanthal, to get a .8 ohm coil you'd need very few wraps. However, you don't need (and may not even want) a .8 ohm coil to take advantage of one. A little closer to 1.0, and even a bit above that, can be pretty impressive, and that's still a level most non-mechanical PVs can get fussy about. If you want more wraps, though, you may need thinner wire. A 3/4 wrap works pretty well, though, and with 32 gauge would probably come out somewhere around 1.3 ohms, probably (near-total guess there, by the way). That's low enough that a VV device might now like it (particularly if you like higher voltage), but a mechanical won't care.

Yeah, I have a 3/4 wrap on the Phoenix RBA right now, it's 1.5ohms exactly and although a decent vape on the Roller, I might rebuilt to 3/3 or 2/3 to see how that goes. Ill just spread the coils out more to cover more wick area. Might make a video on that shortly.

As fas as Kicks go... I have a couple. They're handy, I suppose, if you like VW devices, which you're back to at that point. Sometimes it's nice as an option, though, that you can pop in when you want to use an atty or carto that needs more volts than a low-resistance RBA would. I find I rarely use mine any more, though, mostly because of the pain they are to adjust. I usually opt more for stuff like my Penelope and other leakproof, non-Genesis RBAs when I need something pocket-friendly.

Yeah, I want to pocket my Roller around with a carto tank on it for going on for a while before I drop the cash on my dream (Foggatti).

The best way you can stay at a resistance for your coil is to buy a meter and run the lead across the length of the wire to get as close to the resistance you want.

I do have a meter, I just get lazy to use it as I don't like to touch when i'm ohm'ing out, sometimes gives the wrong readings, so I'm thinking of using the ProVari, but I dunno if I should test sub-ohm coils on it... Guess I should start using it now... I can't find my alligator clips for it

Keep a carto on the provari for out and about vaping, keep the mech mod for your rba. VG wicks just as well as pg on ss wicks so you're good to go there, just make sure you get the hang of ss wicks using the provari or a resetting fuse on your mechanical mod cause everyone fights with shorts while learning how to set up a genisis type device and you don't want to kill a battery. 28g works great, i personally prefer twisted 32g wire for my coils but that is because some of my favorite juices gunk up my coil really fast and the twisted wire can survive more dry burns before breaking than 28g, ymmv, you can find instructions to twist the wire on you tube. I recommend using something like an aga on your provari with about 4/5 wrap of 32g to get you through the learning curve, then once you have your epiphany and start setting it up consistently without shorts or persistent hot spots then you start lowering your resistance until its time to drop down below what the provari can handle. I shudder to think how many batteries i could have killed if i stated with genisis on an unprotected device. Good luck.

I would really love to pocket the Roller though, that's why i'm wondering if a kick is what I will need for carto tanks, seems like it is. Aaand copy pasting what I replied to t8kiteasy: "I never get hot spots when I build on the Phoenix, even when I use a SS Mesh wick, which I even have a video on youtube about. So I hope ill have the same luck on a true genesis tank."

I'll have to do research on this twisted wire... Confusing because more wire sounds like more resistance. But reading the post, and breaking a loop makes it sound like just thicker ends to hold more power leading to a single thinner middle, I dunno. I have to see a video lol.

 

[Shiryo]

You guys are awesome lol. All it took was less resistance, although lower than 1.5ohms has always been odd to me so it wasn't that obvious to me at the time(covered in part one of this 3 part mini series.) Whatever I got running now 2/3 wraps 32ga is OUTSTANDING!

*I do realize there are a few errors in my latest 3 videos, as captioned in one of them, I'll review them later today (sleep time now) and annotate any errors.

 

[CASEACE79]

Okay, THAT is where I did not know how to use a mechanical mod, lower than 1ohm of resistance?! INSANITY... Ditch the AW IMRs, sounds scary. I thought about this lastnight and all I could say is, "I've been spoiled by the ProVari and it has left me with so much to learn. So much. Vast amounts that I could have learned if I never got a ProVari."

I do not regret getting a ProVari and it makes one hell of a great out and about mod. I mean to the new and mid-level vapers, taking a ProVari out as your daily would be heresy, the cost being a factor. However the deeper you look into vaping, with the cost of just a genesis tank being the price of a new ProVari and the mods to run them efficiently in the $200-$400 range, the cost of a ProVari is almost like comparing it to the cost of say a Lavatube.

I always knew mechanical mods is where vaping becomes less of a way to kick the habit, but more of an art form in how you kick the habit. That is where I was first impressed with the GGTS, then the P+, then the Zenesis and then it just seemed to blow up and now we have Chi-Yous, Rollers, iHybrids and many others just to name a few.

Now that i'm done rambling about that... I do have questions...

I have some 32ga kanthal wire, that's a high resistance wire, I don't think I can get a .8ohm coil out of that, it'd literally be just 2 wraps if that. I'm not sure that'd be very efficient. Moreover, i'm just testing grounds right now with a Phoenix RBA, which to my standards, is not that great. I am waiting on a ScubaGen Mini V3 (Genesis style tank) that should complement the Roller nicely.

With that said, I am thinking of picking up a AGA-T2 for the time being while I wait for my SGMV3.

Moreover, I am a fond user of VG based liquids, my current favorite company Fuzion Vapor runs a 65%VG and with that being said, I have a near 12"x12" roll of 400 SS Mesh, i'm thinking for wire I might go with Nichrome80 or stick with Kanthal-A1 and raise the gauge to say 28ga to keep around 3-4 wraps but the resistance low. Thoughts on my RBA setup?

And with Trick mentioning cartos on a mechanical... Wouldn't a kick justify that? I really don't want to pocket a leaky Genesis (I don't have money to pocket something like a Cobra just yet...)

Shiryo I never said to ditch the AWs. You still have a Provari don't ya. Lol. But the MNKEs are a great battery. Like I said they are actually safer when using low ohm coils. The amp draw on the battery with standard (2.0ohm) to standard low resistance (1.5ohm) is between 1.85-2.46 amps. Which is perfect for a 10amp continuous output battery like the AWs. Anything 4.0amps and below most people consider safe. When using low ohm coils like .8ohm you're drawing 4.63amps. Which can be a bit much for an AW. Now don't go freaking out you just need to be a bit more careful if you're using the AWs. Just be careful when chain vaping to give the battery time to cool off. The MNKEs with a 20amp output are better suited for the amp draw of low ohm coils. They are the same company that makes the 26650 batteries people use in the helix and BAM.

I'd say go ahead and get one of the AGA Ts to practice on. They're cheap enough. Twisted 32g will give you about the same performance as 28g kanthal. Just make sure it's twisted really tight. One added benefit thicker gauge wire has other than less resistance is it covers more surface area of the wick. You can build a 1ohm coil with 32g or 28g but the vaping experience is way different.

Looks like you're getting some great advice here.