I predict Vaping will eventually fade out.

[chaos-7]

Okay, I admit it, sensational titling there. But it is such a great system that I actually believe it to be true. vaping is such an effective alternative to the cancer sticks that much of society has embraced over the decades. As smokers increasingly find vaping and stop smoking, there will be less people using tobacco. The tobacco companies will go the way of the horse and buggy - obsolete. When kids no longer see adults smoking, the kids will no longer want to look "grown up" and start in the first place. Thus, there will be less smokers that need to vape and get off the death sticks. And, since eCigs only advertise and market to smokers (actually, they responsibly advise non-smokers to not vape) there will be a decreasing market share within vaping. Of course many of us will be vaping for the next many years, but if you think about it, vaping is here to stop the vicious cycle of "new cigarette smokers" and free the current ones.

I know there will be some that will say, "Tobacco companies will always make sure that there are new smokers to addict to their product, thus there will always be a need for vaping to set the next generation free." That's possible too. But, I think society is getting pretty tired of handing over our youth to this mentality. Unless we let tobacco companies eek their way into the vaping industry - seeing a new, more politically correct way to market Marlboro. Just imagine if in the year 2020 people were vaping Camel PV's!? Of course with all the added toxins, taxes and regulations, too. : o

Vaping (imo) is best served if we can get every last person on the planet off of cancer sticks. And, free from any addiction to nicotine.

Cheers!

Not only are horses and carriages not gone, Our numbers are growing!

 

[DC2]

Six a day? You weren't ever a smoker.

Yeah, I didn't really think of myself as a smoker.

If I had only smoked six cigs a day...I would have never quit.

Yeah, I never had any intention of quitting whatsoever.
Never once tried to quit, and never wanted to quit.

If my wife didn't complain about me stinking after every cigarette, I might still be smoking.

 

[yvilla]

But, it is really not added toxins that cause all the disease and death that can result from smoking - it is the fact that smoking involves burning vegetable matter and paper. It is the toxic products of combustion that number in the thousands. In short, it is the smoke!

Lets not forget the THOUSANDS of Added chemicals to the "vegetable matter and paper" >60 are KNOWN carcinogens and I'd venture that many more additives are not known of at all (why some say 4000 and others say 7,000 this tells me that we do not know "everything" that IS added - or the dangers involved)

You are missing the point. For the most part, the list of some 600 additives in cigarettes is mainly composed of flavorants (the majority actually approved food additives), plus things like the glue. These are NOT for the most part the known (and unknown) carcinogens and other toxic components of smoke that cause harm and disease. The carcinogens and toxic chemicals that cause the harm are the products of combustion, that get CREATED when the cigarette is burned. See, Harms of Smoking and Health Benefits of Quitting - National Cancer Institute, and http://quitsmoking.about.com/cs/nicotineinhaler/a/cigingredients.htm

For example, benzene, beryllium, vinyl cloride, benzo(a)pyrene, toluene, ethylene oxide, etc, etc, etc, are among the known carcinogenic chemicals in smoke created by combustion (and among the 7,000 or more chemical constituents of smoke). They are not added. They are created by combustion. Reference the cancer.gov cite above.

Another set of carcinogens smoking exposes us to are the tobacco specific nitrosamines, again not added, but naturally present in tobacco and released by it's burning - just as other carcinogenic nitrosamines are formed by cooking/frying/charing food (as in bacon, cured meats, barbequed meats, etc). See, Nitrosamines and Cancer

The quantities of tobacco specific nitrosamines we are exposed to from cigarette smoking are very high, but depending on the method of processing, smokeless tobacco products such as Snus and dissolvables can have vastly reduced levels. And the same goes for nicotine products, such as FDA approved smoking cessation patches, gums and inhalers, and e-cig liquid - since the nicotine comes from tobacco they all still have levels of TSNAs, but levels so tiny as to not amount to any real danger. See, page 16 of http://casaa.info/uploads/CASAA_Legislative_Packet_Regarding_Indoor_Bans_Web.pdf

 

[markfm]

I wonder how many additives there are now. I believe the 599 is from 1994, which I believe is before the fire safe chemicals came in.

 

[throatkick]

Nicotine very well may not be nearly as addictive as people think.

Nicotine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




The talk about how addictive nicotine is comes from looking at smoking behavior, not vaping behavior.

Electronic cigarettes are the first product that allows you to look at nicotine addiction...
--Without needing to factor in the behavioral components of the act of smoking
--Without the smoke, and all the additives they put in to make it more addictive

There is tons of anecdotal evidence right here on these forums that many people are finding it easy to reduce or eliminate nicotine intake.

SMOKING = Highly addictive
NICOTINE = Maybe not so much

I hope your post receives many views. For me, this strikes at the heart of a matter that I have been quite passionate and outspoken about: Demonizing.

What gets me is that we heard for years that nicotine made smoking addictive. I tried the patches, gums and lozenges and quickly discovered (as many here) that they did absolutely nothing for me. Seeing that the above methods help so few people, is it not natural to ask question how these conclusions were drawn?

I just want whoever it may be that's studying vaping to actually study it and not release more incomplete theories like the one above. It would be fabulous if larger studies asked ECF members to participate as some smaller studies have.

Ultimately, I don't think decisions should be made for me by those that are far-removed when the decisions directly affect me. (me, you, us etc.) This is how we probably got, "Chew some gum and you'll quit." We deserve better than that.

 

[PaporPlas]

I hope your post receives many views. For me, this strikes at the heart of a matter that I have been quite passionate and outspoken about: Demonizing.

What gets me is that we heard for years that nicotine made smoking addictive. I tried the patches, gums and lozenges and quickly discovered (as many here) that they did absolutely nothing for me. Seeing that the above methods help so few people, is it not natural to ask question how these conclusions were drawn?

I just want whoever it may be that's studying vaping to actually study it and not release more incomplete theories like the one above. It would be fabulous if larger studies asked ECF members to participate as some smaller studies have.

Ultimately, I don't think decisions should be made for me by those that are far-removed when the decisions directly affect me. (me, you, us etc.) This is how we probably got, "Chew some gum and you'll quit." We deserve better than that.

Why don't we all just vape 0mg nic levels then? Seriously, if this isn't about nicotine....what is it about?

 

[DC2]

Why don't we all just vape 0mg nic levels then? Seriously, if this isn't about nicotine....what is it about?

I'm sure for a good percentage of people it IS about the nicotine,

And then there is the percentage of people that are about more than just the nicotine...
Whole tobacco alkaloids (WTAs) and why some may need them

But for me, smoking gave me a chance to escape from the world for 10 minute increments whenever I wanted.
It gave me a chance to sit down and gather my thoughts and think through problems.
It gave me a reason to gracefully exit uncomfortable social situations.

It gave me a chance to relax, do something with my hands, and watch the smoke for awhile.
And I NEVER would have stopped smoking, no matter what, because I needed those things.

And though I tried many things through the years, I could never get those things from anything other than smoking.

 

[yvilla]

And to add to DC2's post above in response to PaporPlas's question, the vast majority of those vaping smoked (and for many years) before they began to vape. In other words, to the extent it is all about the nicotine for many vapers, they were already addicted to nicotine well before they began vaping.

Thus, the fact that we're talking about a pre-existing addiciton to nicotine means that PaperPlas's point about most vapers vaping to get nicotine takes nothing away from DC2's initial premise - that nicotine alone, and not when obtained through smoking, such as if obtained through vaping, may well turn out to not be so addictive.

Whether that premise is ultimately shown to be true or not is a long way off, however, and will not be knowable unless and until there have been years of experience and studies of substantial numbers of people not previously addicted to nicotine via smoking, but who obtain nicotine solely from smokeless products such as e-cigs.

 

[throatkick]

Why don't we all just vape 0mg nic levels then? Seriously, if this isn't about nicotine....what is it about?

This isn't what I was driving at. We'd get caught in a loop.

I'm saying we probably have progressed enough to where we can determine some of the finer points and finally fully decode the whole "smoking" issue as opposed to "Here, chew some gum." In order for that to happen, I think people like ourselves would need to play a large role in studies.

 

[PaporPlas]

And to add to DC2's post above in response to PaporPlas's question, the vast majority of those vaping smoked (and for many years) before they began to vape. In other words, to the extent it is all about the nicotine for many vapers, they were already addicted to nicotine well before they began vaping.

Thus, the fact that we're talking about a pre-existing addiciton to nicotine means that your point about most vapers vaping to get nicotine takes nothing away from DC2's initial premise - that nicotine alone, and not when obtained through smoking, such as if obtained through vaping, may well turn out to not be so addictive.

Whether that premise is ultimately shown to be true or not is a long way off, however, and will not be knowable unless and until there have been years of experience and studies of substantial numbers of people not previously addicted to nicotine, but who obtain nicotine solely from smokeless products such as e-cigs.

Okay, that makes sense. For me it is all of what you said when it comes to vaping. So, we are on the same page as to why we vape. I'm just saying in my original post that it is so effective that we are "potentially" working ourselves "out of a job". That being that we would have been the generation which effects the future generations to smoke, or not.

BTW....awesome post on all the "what's really harmful" in cigs. Which, by the way, I never believed it to be nicotine.

Thanks

 

[Semiretired]

But for me, smoking gave me a chance to escape from the world for 10 minute increments whenever I wanted.
It gave me a chance to sit down and gather my thoughts and think through problems.
It gave me a reason to gracefully exit uncomfortable social situations.

It gave me a chance to relax, do something with my hands, and watch the smoke for awhile.
And I NEVER would have stopped smoking, no matter what, because I needed those things.

And though I tried many things through the years, I could never get those things from anything other than smoking.

I agree, I work in a fully deep type thought career. In many cases, taking a moment to smoke and think through the cloud surrounding me helped me answer a lot of difficult problems. I got more work done by going on the roof at work with my laptop where I could smoke while I figured out complex algorithms than I did sitting in my stuffy air conditioned office... There was something about it that helped me think.

I tried almost everything to quit (hypnosis, patches, etc.), but never made it. Sometimes they helped me cut back, but not quit. My doctor who was with me every step of the way said I would never quit as long as I was in my same career - needed a non stress environment. Well, this has worked - I can duplicate that feeling with my PV. Try thinking deeply on a lozenge (not)...

 

[DC2]

In many cases, taking a moment to smoke and think through the cloud surrounding me helped me answer a lot of difficult problems. I got more work done by going on the roof at work with my laptop where I could smoke while I figured out complex algorithms than I did sitting in my stuffy air conditioned office... There was something about it that helped me think.

Hell yes.


I could sit at my desk for an hour going around and around in my head about how to solve a problem.
All the distractions didn't help, but there was just something about sitting at my desk that was not conducive to the process.

I'd get up and go outside for a smoke, and without even really thinking about the problem, I'd come up with the solution.
And usually, that happened before I could even get halfway through my smoke.

I think there are a lot of factors involved, and you don't get any of those factors from a lozenge.

 

[radeljack]

I only vape 0mg, for me it is about a 30 yr habit. CaTE=PaporPlas;5200115]Why don't we all just vape 0mg nic levels then? Seriously, if this isn't about nicotine....what is it about?[/QUOTE]

 

[Johanino]

You are forgetting those of us that use cigarettes (and of course now vaping) to self-medicate for things like mild depression. Those are the ones that could NEVER quit using normal means.

Yeah I use nicotine to partially self medicate (even though my medics are against it). I could never come off the cigs via traditional routes due to this. FDA NRT's were just simply not strong enough and within 20 hours or less all my medics would be telling me to have a cig

From the research I have done on nicotine, it would seem it is not much worse for us than the caffeine in coffee. However, it is extremely addictive. From research I have done. I don't believe vaping is a bad thing, I think it is a godsend. Especially for it's liberating benefits to the smoker. I might even keep vaping after I get down to 0mg nic (if possible). Because I really enjoy the tactile, as well.

Actually, you are a shining example! I believe that if we all would vape more like what you just described, then this would be the perfect life-long experience for those that like to hold something in their hand and like the feeling of inhaling, etc...I know I like those things. I've just went down to 16mg from 24mg and look forward to getting down to 6mg and eventually vaping as a habit, rather than to feed my nic addiction.

Thanks!

Yeah that's my aim eventually. To get down to 0mg and just enjoy the action for relaxation etc. I'm currently at 26mg having been vaping for 5 months (just under) and like starting @ 36mg and then reducing for the last 3 months.

 

[PaporPlas]

Yeah I use nicotine to partially self medicate (even though my medics are against it). I could never come off the cigs via traditional routes due to this. FDA NRT's were just simply not strong enough and within 20 hours or less all my medics would be telling me to have a cig




Yeah that's my aim eventually. To get down to 0mg and just enjoy the action for relaxation etc. I'm currently at 26mg having been vaping for 5 months (just under) and like starting @ 36mg and then reducing for the last 3 months.

Way to go Johanino...you're a shining example too! : )

 

[Ande]

Good point. And, even some highly developed nations embrace smoking with a vigor still. I know Japan does.

Japan has sort of turned a corner on this. Last time I was in ...uoka, a year or so ago, there were plenty of places you couldn't even smoke on the streets. And not many people smoking at all.

Best,
Ande

 

[Lacedolphin]

I liked smoking, never thought I would quit, had tried everything, then hubby brought home a metro e-cig from the tobacco shop while getting another carton of smokes. That was the beginning of December, I tried them with the only idea that it would save money by cutting me down on how many I smoked a day. That's all. I had no intention of quitting at all. Then I learned about juices that tasted better to me than regular cigs and PVs and after 2 months of cutting back and learning all about vaping, I can say I don't even want one anymore! I'm very happy with my roughstack and juices, that the small withdrawl is easily beatable. What a change I feel, mentally and physically and I am surprised I was able to quit in such a short time, when I started out not intending to at all.

Vaping is the future of smoking, and tobacco companies will see that and come up with thier own version and will get people hooked again chemically only a different device.

 

[Hottody]

I'm a cigar smoker (ocasional) and have been for 20 years! I Vape because I enjoy the flavor and it is a substitue to snacking for me. I use zero nicotine cartomizers and enjoy the various flavors! My opinion is nicotine is no more harmful than cafeen, I just don't want to get addicted or self-reliant on any substance. I like the post here...my opinion is vaping is going to be around for ever! Heck Rap music is still popular...and it never tasted good to begin with!! Lol

 

[PaporPlas]

Japan has sort of turned a corner on this. Last time I was in ...uoka, a year or so ago, there were plenty of places you couldn't even smoke on the streets. And not many people smoking at all.

Best,
Ande

That's VERY good to hear!

Thanks

 

[Patrick21]

I personally think that in the future more people will be vaping and i think instead of starting out on cigs they will start out on pv's instead.