I also enjoy vaping much more than smoking and couldn't do both. analogs taste like crap to me. Sorry they made their "occasonal use" product so well that I want to use it all the time. 
I'm done. No more vaping for me....
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Actually - I think this is a great post. While I did expect the atomizers to fail weekly based on user comments and several sites faqs, when they didn't, I began to expect more out of the product. Rude shock to have 4 go down in a week.
I'd stocked up with the intent of having to replace them frequently. Replacing an atomizer a week - after chain vaping - is still cheaper than a pack and a half a day habit - $7.48 pack if bought by the carton, versus $6 dollars a week for an atomizer.
Also, like other people on the forum, I've used self mixed juice and cart stuffer mods. I have to assume that this will also shorten the life of your equipment.
But then again, I'm a noob. I could discover something else next week.
PS - NOT DUMB. Optimistic!
I have to agree with Trog's statement. These were not intended or marketed as a full time replacement for tobacco cigarettes. They were made for mild use when smoking is not practical or allowed. If you were to adopt a mindset that these are consumables then you will probably get a lot more enjoyment out of it. You can't expect a device to run forever with the type of use we put these things through. As for the cost, if you figure what you spent on tobacco each month compared to getting a new atomizer and a bottle of juice once a month, or even a cheap kit from China once a month, they are cheap enough if you order from there.
These are not designed for a lifetime of heavy use. I have a few that I rotate throughout the day. I have a USB passthrough, 2 complete Dragons, and 2 complete 510's and I have not seen any major problems and I have completely replaced tobacco cigarettes with E-Cigs. If they were to last an extended period of time then you could really expect to see the cost of them rise as well. I just think of them as consumables just as the tobacco cigarettes were these just last longer before you have to throw them away.
These are not designed for a lifetime of heavy use. I have a few that I rotate throughout the day. I have a USB passthrough, 2 complete Dragons, and 2 complete 510's and I have not seen any major problems and I have completely replaced tobacco cigarettes with E-Cigs. If they were to last an extended period of time then you could really expect to see the cost of them rise as well. I just think of them as consumables just as the tobacco cigarettes were these just last longer before you have to throw them away.
To answer your question, when I first explored e-cigs before purchasing my first one, nowhere in the marketing of these by any company does it say that e-cigs are meant for occasional light usage. At best, the marketing says nothing on the subject and at worst it is marketed as a smoking cessation product. It is akin to purchasing your first car and then finding out after the fact that it is not meant to be driven more than 50 miles (or km for you Brits) a week or it will likely breakdown.............
I got the idea from a website that says...The ScrewDriver! A Device that just works!
Gotta love my Screwdriver, except for battery issues (non-related to SD)
my SD just keeps pounding out the vapor!!!!
I started researching these in late July / early August. I only found one site with a warning that the usage claims were exaggerated and that atomizers failed on a regular basis. That's how I knew to stock up on atomizers before I found the forum.
I believe the site operator based his info on personal usage stats. Not able to find the site. If I do, I'll edit the post. It gave great info on what to expect per model vs. analogs.
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I don't have any issue with Trog's post... as far as it's basic content. It's how it's presented. Nearly all the posts I've seen from him have a negative tone toward ECF members. Why come here at all?
I've been at this for about 4 months. I got myself a full complement of 510 equipment right off the bat.
I was never satisfied with battery capacity -or- lifespan. It was routine to change/charge batteries a half-dozen times per day. Constantly pulling and feeding carts.
I got a reasonable "vape" about 60% of the time.
I always used the same juice, from the same supplier.
My atomizer failure rate averaged 3 to 5 per month.
Then, I built a "nicostick" box mod.
I have not had an atomizer fail since. I am on the 6th. week with the same atomizer, I generally use 2 charge cycles a day.
That is, I have (2) 14450 batteries that each get charged (1) time each per day.
All this while vaping somewhere between 2 to 2-1/2 ml of fluid per day.
Oh, by the way, I have not had traditional tobacco cigarette in about 7 weeks, after a 35 year 20-25 Camels per day habit.
I started out at 24mg. and I am currently on 18mg. and dropping.
I plan on phasing these things out sometime early next year.
I am going to look at all this as success. And you know, I'm not certain that I would be planning on quitting e-cigs if the "needful times" were not so inevitable. I'm willing to plan on it because I really don;t want to ever become the "cash cow" smoker ever again.
O.k. , back to reliability. I honestly think that the atomizers fail due to being twisted on and off the battery connection.
Think about it, there-in occurs the highest incidence of mechanical stress to the soldered connection/ ni-chrome wire inside the atomizer.
Since my adoption of the box mod, I NEVER remove the atomizer, and consequently, I have not had a failure since.
I also never clean the things either. I don't even blow them out or set them open side down to drain, NOTHING. period.
It tastes fine. It vapes quite to my satisfaction.
Until I switched to the box mod, with reliable batteries, I was seeing atomizer failures that were leading to a rapid discouragement about vaping. Now, I'm beginning to wonder why I am considering quitting.
It's ALL about lousy batteries and repeated twisting on & off.
I'm certain of it.
I was never satisfied with battery capacity -or- lifespan. It was routine to change/charge batteries a half-dozen times per day. Constantly pulling and feeding carts.
I got a reasonable "vape" about 60% of the time.
I always used the same juice, from the same supplier.
My atomizer failure rate averaged 3 to 5 per month.
Then, I built a "nicostick" box mod.
I have not had an atomizer fail since. I am on the 6th. week with the same atomizer, I generally use 2 charge cycles a day.
That is, I have (2) 14450 batteries that each get charged (1) time each per day.
All this while vaping somewhere between 2 to 2-1/2 ml of fluid per day.
Oh, by the way, I have not had traditional tobacco cigarette in about 7 weeks, after a 35 year 20-25 Camels per day habit.
I started out at 24mg. and I am currently on 18mg. and dropping.
I plan on phasing these things out sometime early next year.
I am going to look at all this as success. And you know, I'm not certain that I would be planning on quitting e-cigs if the "needful times" were not so inevitable. I'm willing to plan on it because I really don;t want to ever become the "cash cow" smoker ever again.
O.k. , back to reliability. I honestly think that the atomizers fail due to being twisted on and off the battery connection.
Think about it, there-in occurs the highest incidence of mechanical stress to the soldered connection/ ni-chrome wire inside the atomizer.
Since my adoption of the box mod, I NEVER remove the atomizer, and consequently, I have not had a failure since.
I also never clean the things either. I don't even blow them out or set them open side down to drain, NOTHING. period.
It tastes fine. It vapes quite to my satisfaction.
Until I switched to the box mod, with reliable batteries, I was seeing atomizer failures that were leading to a rapid discouragement about vaping. Now, I'm beginning to wonder why I am considering quitting.
It's ALL about lousy batteries and repeated twisting on & off.
I'm certain of it.
I got the idea from a website that says...The ScrewDriver! A Device that just works!
Gotta love my Screwdriver, except for battery issues (non-related to SD)
my SD just keeps pounding out the vapor!!!!
we would also claim that the screwdriver was the worlds first cost effective long term e smoking device purposely designed for the needs of heavy users..
those heavy users were ourselves.. a screwdriver was designed for us.. to suit our needs.. it was designed for one simple reason.. nothing else out there did the business for us in anything like a long term reliable cost effective way..
the first point.. it does not try and emulate a tobacco product.. second point it points out very very clearly that atomizer are consumables (we say chuck them every two weeks) and that carts needs topping up..
it does simply work.. but only if the instructions are followed.. in fact it works that well its spawned a whole new bunch of things commonly called "mods"... a year ago a screwdriver was the only device of its kind.. now there are loads of such devices..
we claim the device is for heavy users and intended as a long term cost effective tobbaco alternative.. ruyan most certainly did not..
people that sell things dont normally point out the negatives.. even claiming one cart is the same as twenty real cigs isnt claiming the thing is fit for all day and every day usage..
find someone that sells normal e cigs and clearly states the intended use of the product they sell.. ruyan did.. social smoking.. they made it clear their product was not intended to replace a tobacco habit..
so we have sellers mis-selling (by omission) and buyers simply assuming what they wish to assume..
dumb is a suitable word i think.. not because of the purchase.. simply the refusal to believe the simple truth about the product that offers them so much hope..
treat the things like semi disposable items.. buy cheap and buy a new starter kit every week.. that way you will get reliable e smoking.. expect the things to do something they are not meant to do and frustration is the end result..
also budget for it..
trog
ps.. everyone talks of atomizers simply failing... they dont just fail.. just like the batteries they slowly or rapidly cease to work like they did when new..
a pic of one after ones weeks use.. after a while the thing ends up like charged lump coal.. they soon get to be like this.. if you are happy with worn out ones so be it.. if you aint the only answer to fit a new ones..
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I know this is off topic, but...
Really??
Although I can't deny that I am addicted to nicotine. I can't say that my body is totally dependent on nicotine after 15 years of use. Although I may go through a form of with drawls, usually associated with headaches, scatter brained and maybe a cold (lungs trying to heal itself.) I don't think that I am willing to go to the extent that heroine users will go, to get relief from extreme physical and mental pain.
I've seen and witnessed friends become dependent on heroine after a few months of heavy use. The image that you refer to is all the more real to me. I mean, I wouldn't steal from my mother to get my nicotine fix or offer my "personal" services for a cigarette.
I've also got to witness some of their with drawls. Extreme vomiting, hysteria, sweats, stench, screaming, ........, and a relapse to be rid of it.
Again, I can't deny that nicotine is addictive, but more than heroine....I doubt that.
When they say nicotine is more addictive than ......, it's a scare tactic akin to the antifreeze one. What they mean it requires smaller amounts over less time to become dependent.
The dependency itself is MUCH worse with ....... Just take my word on that one. Sorry for two posts. Phone has character limit.
I'm right with you on that one.
My Super-Mini's were problem children, but overall they got the job done. I bought them in January and the original attys (yes, both humble little RN4081's) still work fine, attached to my pass-thru
. Lousy batteries were definitely the cause of my frustrations. They wear out quickly, the auto shut-off feature sucked and they could not seem to deliver consistent vape beyond the first 10 puffs. I got so frustrated I actually did go back to analogs, briefly. The hacking and coughing, all the nastiness returned with a vengeance. When climbing the stairs started kicking my ash again, I knew it was time to go back and give it another go.The best thing I ever did for my vaping was switch over to an e-pipe. The damn thing just works. The bigger batteries are phenomenal! The Vape is Strong! The only time I've had to order a replacement atty, there was nothing wrong with the atty itself. The bowl split on impact with the concrete floor, after a drop from over 8 feet (vaping and ladders don't mix
). The split made the pipe leak. The device itself still worked great, it just wasn't portable unless I wanted to vape it out of a zip-lok baggie all slippery with wasted juice(talk about letting your Freak Flag fly, not to mention becoming a walking biohazard ). Went a little too crazy with the epoxy trying to fix it and accidentally sealed up the intake in front of the atty. Stubborn stupid impatient me, I could have just left it the way it was and used it for light dripping exclusively and been just fine. I'm your typical American Male though, "must....go....Faster!" Still, the new atty is even better than the original. It wasn't a replacement, it was an aftermarket upgrade! (gentlemen start your engines!)Trog's point is well taken too. Most of these devices were meant to be a snack , not a full course M E A L. There would be no need for mods if this wasn't the case.
When you talk about the cost of vaping you have to compare vapings cost to tobacco cigarettes. When you do that vapings cost is acceptable if not economical.
it's not a scare tactic, it's simple fact. just because it's more addictive than ...... doesn't stop you or anyone else from using it, let alone being open about it with friends or relatives or even strangers on an online internet board.
if you're equating antifreeze to ......, try shooting some into your veins and see what happens. same thing won't happen with ....... ...... is merely ...... and antifreeze is FRIGGIN ANTIFREEZE.
i doubted it too, even all the way through high school. of course it's hard to avoid that kind of disinformation as it's all forced fed to us to support the war on drugs. they can't back up the claims, so they just keep repeating it until it becomes fact to us and we won't deny it.
tobacco has been proven in studies to create dependency in its users by a larger margin compared to ....... in survey of health professionals involved in addiction treatment, nicotine was ranked #1 while ...... was ranked #9, just below alcohol.
most illegal drug users are "weekenders," and thus a habitual addiction never fully sets in. the body metabolizes whatever was taken, and things go back to normal. the sames goes for any legal drug, say for example alcohol. the majority of alcohol users are occasional social users. the much smaller minority, the addicts, make up a much smaller number simply because doing something, anything, over and over again isn't fun. people do drugs to escape or to create new sensations. if you continue to get the same sensations and feelings, they get old. but a very small percentage will like it so much that they must do it every waking minute of every day to get by. again, this is not the majority and thus not a representational image of any drug user, legal or not.
for your friends who have been addicted and stole money, this can be explained in two ways: prohibition and the war on drugs has caused drugs like ...... to be exorbitantly more in cost and thus not nearly as easy to obtain as a cigarette. costs are artificially inflated because there's more risk involved in owning, selling, and using the drug. and because it's not legal, there are no standards, so ...... is often cut or produced using dangerously toxic materials and ingredients to cut back the costs of production. these impurities can do a lot of damage to the body, and most if not all of this damage is not attributed to ...... itself.
as for withdrawals and the extreme mental pain that you were describing, this accounts for a very small percentage that makes up "addicts." people have died due to withdrawals from alcohol and nicotine because so much of it is normally put into their system that the body begins to form the physical aspect of dependency and thus cannot function properly without it. so, your descriptions do not surprise me. but, that being said, not all addicts are like this and to say one goes in hand with the other (...... use) is a bit narrow sighted. "functioning addicts" are those that do exist and make up the majority of users. they're successful, they're stable, they're rational, and they're responsible. you won't eve hear or read about them because that's not interesting, and thus major networks and anti-drug propaganda outlets won't expose us to such images. an example of this would be dr. william halsted, who was the first doctor to do a blood transfusion using his own blood. he also had one mean ...... addiction. oh, and he and three other founding doctors that formed john hopkins.
i'm not promoting the use of ......, or even the use of nicotine, but it's our business whether or not we can or will use it, and for a country that's supposedly the "freest country," we should have that right as citizens to do so without risk, injury, imprisonment, and the destruction of our civil rights that go along with the war on drugs.. of course the government disagrees and always knows what's best for the people.
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Ciggies would have been a cheaper but less enjoyable purchase. I own 5 PVs now with loads of carts, juice, and disposable hardware. I'm probably set for quite a while...but, the Chuck twins are calling me...I may have to add them to my favorite hobby "must haves"!
You're missing my point (probably because I couldn't use many characters from my phone so I had to limit my words). I'm not equating ...... to antifreeze. The wording is used as a scare tactic. They imply nicotine addiction and withdrawal is worse than ...... by saying it is more addictive. I can guaran-damn-tee you it is not even remotely close. They can say that because the amount and duration of use is less for nicotine than ...... to become dependent. Like, you need say 24mg of nicotine over a 7 day period to develop a dependency, whereas you might need a gram of ...... a day over a period of 8 days to become dependent, but the thing is, you smoke a pack of cigarettes to get 24mg of nicotine, but only 2 shots of ...... to get your gram for the day. It's only more addictive by the numbers on paper. However, the dependency itself for ...... is light years more intense and essential to functionality than nicotine. It's also more likely a person that tries ...... is going to want to do it again because it feels amazing--this quality is not nearly as evident with nicotine. Also, you can function without a cigarette, no matter what your level of addiction. I don't care if you're a 12 pack a day smoker, the withdrawal from nicotine will not even seem like anything at all when compared to what happens when you experience ...... withdrawal, even with a relatively small ...... addiction. It is excruciating. If you go to work without a cigarette, people might notice that you're kinda grumpy. If you go to work without ......, people are really going to easily pick up on the fact that you're sweating, shaking, vomiting, greenish-grey, weaker than you can imagine, possibly hallucinating, suffering from sleep deprivation, etc. I would not wish ...... withdrawal on my worst enemy. Period. I was equating the implied wording they use with the antifreeze argument against e-cigs by saying that Propylene Glycol is an ingredient in antifreeze. While that's true, so is water. It's lying through omission or manipulation of language. If you think for a second that trying to quit smoking cigarettes is even close to trying to quit ......, then you might as well go out and get some ......, because quitting smoking (if you really want to) is really f'ing easy... in contrast.
i'm not promoting the use of ......, or even the use of nicotine, but it's our business whether or not we can or will use it, and for a country that's supposedly the "freest country," we should have that right as citizens to do so without risk, injury, imprisonment, and the destruction of our civil rights that go along with the war on drugs.. of course the government disagrees and always knows what's best for the people.
This, I agree with wholeheartedly.
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