Yea, well, I don't put the American Flag or Army stickers on my vehicle either because OPSEC after 9/11 said that that could target me by a terrorist group..
I'm going to sound like a troll
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China did not "steal" anything. American businesses took their operations overseas to prevent paying hard-working Americans pensions and health benefits, and to not have such stringent regulations to deal with. Americans want cheap; they will readily shop at places like Wal-Mart, or fasttech (name your China poison) and demand that if they have in-country made options, they be as cheap as the Chinese alternatives. It's greedy corps and consumers who make this all possible. The average American consumer could care less what conditions their products are made in as long as they get them cheap and fast.
Come on, you really can't jab at what WidowSon said. It's fundamentally true.
It's true. America is a great country but at some point we became spoiled by our own embarrassment of riches and entitlements. The vast majority of us have fallen into it and we've spread consumerism to other countries. We've become a "Want" society vs. a "Need" society. If something new and shiny in our spectrum of interest comes along that is cheap enough we say we want it regardless of whether or not we need it. I know I do it and I am working on correcting it. Ask yourself how much time you spend buying and looking for things to buy vs. actually doing and living. Is it out of proportion to your parents, grand parents or great grandparents? Think about it.
I agree, we have changed as a society, but I think it's not really fair to compare us now to past generations. Times were different, buying was different, the world was different. My grandparents were alive and into adulthood during the Depression. They would never be like we are today, nor did they have that option.
I think what we can do now as consumers to make the biggest difference is to use our buying power (because really this is more powerful than most people realize) to support your own country, state, county, city, where you can. This is where I have tried to make changes.
Suggestions????
Provari, Semovar, anything with a DNA 20, King, Nemesis, Poldiac, Kick,
I just find it amazing lots of the solutions are right there but people refuse to do anything about the problems. I guess people are not uncomfortable enough to want change yet
More and more states are pushing legislations to reestablish safer and smarter harm reduction alternatives. I feel positive that this inconvenience we all may be facing will be temporary.
What we need is a W.R. Hearst on our side.
Edit; BTW if e-liquid does get banned, I'll take up sub-ohming straight VG, creating cumulonimbuses where ever I go. Ban that.
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I glad that peeps give up the analog habit and have saved lots of cash, don't get me wrong.
Could everyone quit bragging about it in the Signatures ?
The reason? Simple I'm sure some Politian or Politian's Flunky is reads this site. Do you know what they see when they read $3,000 Saved!! LOST Revenue. The more peeps brag about how much money they are saving the Higher the taxes will be when the Taxes start. It's only a matter of time before the price a E Juice doubles.
Perhaps those sigs should also include the amount spend on ecig stuff.
For example:
$3,000 saved from buying cigarettes!
$15,000 spent on ecigs!
I prefer to think about how many people doing research on e cigs in their quest to quit smoking see the banners and it makes them hopeful.
I'm not worried about giving Big Tobacco or any anti vaping associations ammunition. The more people who switch to vaping, the stronger we'll be.
I'm not worried about giving Big Tobacco or any anti vaping associations ammunition. The more people who switch to vaping, the stronger we'll be.
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I decided not to put the money saved on my banner not because I'm worried some politician monkey sees "how much tax dollars are missing" but because I don't care about anything but how many days I've been off analogs. I don't think I've saved any money because I'm still trying things out, trying to figure out my best vape set up and my initial investment will cost money, which I planned on going into this.
The savings will truly be later on when I'm hopefully spending less on medical bills avoiding smoking related diseases.
The savings will truly be later on when I'm hopefully spending less on medical bills avoiding smoking related diseases.
The ANTZ have had their agenda long before these quit banners have been in existence.
the only ones that would care about those numbers wouldn't be politicians (if anyone really does) it would be BT... politicians see the money people save in cigarettes as money spent on other things that can help the economy.
Troll
Troll
I am sure that we are paying people to keep a very close eye on tobacco revenue. I am sure the governments have an exact amount for taxes received compared to last week/last month/last year, and learned dissertations on trends and changes. Amount of money 'they' make on tobacco is ridiculous, and all they have to do is stick out their hands and say "Gimme or you go to jail".
Let's say in this state, a pack of butts is $7.00
Fed tax $1.00, State tax $2.00, and this state charges six percent sales tax on the total purchase (taxes tax!).
Fed income tax - 15%, SS/Medicare 7.5%, State income tax 4%. Add them up get 26.5% of your gross income before you get a nickel.
So to get that $7.00 to buy a pack you had to work to get $9.50 pre-tax.
$1.00 + $2.00 + .40 (sales tax) + 2.50 (income taxes/SS) = $5.90 on a pack of cigarettes that YOU yourself paid. Add in the income tax/property tax/gas tax/etc from the tobacco farmer to transportation to manufacturer to the clerk at the convenience store selling them and it is obvious that the various governments are making more than they are admitting to!
Let's say in this state, a pack of butts is $7.00
Fed tax $1.00, State tax $2.00, and this state charges six percent sales tax on the total purchase (taxes tax!).
Fed income tax - 15%, SS/Medicare 7.5%, State income tax 4%. Add them up get 26.5% of your gross income before you get a nickel.
So to get that $7.00 to buy a pack you had to work to get $9.50 pre-tax.
$1.00 + $2.00 + .40 (sales tax) + 2.50 (income taxes/SS) = $5.90 on a pack of cigarettes that YOU yourself paid. Add in the income tax/property tax/gas tax/etc from the tobacco farmer to transportation to manufacturer to the clerk at the convenience store selling them and it is obvious that the various governments are making more than they are admitting to!
The government already knows tax revenues from cigarettes are down - that's why they are trying to increase taxes on other tobacco products to make up the lost revenue, including e-cigarettes. Deleting forum signatures isn't going to stop that - only vapers standing up and fighting those increases will.
And "Big Tobacco" doesn't want to see tax increases on vaping supplies anymore than other e-cigarette vendors do. The lower the taxes, the more profits the companies get to keep from the sale. The lower they can keep the cost without taxes, the more they will sell. It's illogical to suspect "BT" for being behind the push for increased tobacco and nicotine taxes.
And "Big Tobacco" doesn't want to see tax increases on vaping supplies anymore than other e-cigarette vendors do. The lower the taxes, the more profits the companies get to keep from the sale. The lower they can keep the cost without taxes, the more they will sell. It's illogical to suspect "BT" for being behind the push for increased tobacco and nicotine taxes.
ok, Lets get something straight, China didn't steal ANYTHING directly or indirectly. Stealing would imply they are not allowed to have those jobs (e.g. the US Government will not allow offshore jobs, and china took them anyway and seduced you with their plastic goods).
The people and government of the US demand the goods that are produced there, and in turn have GIVEN them the jobs.
As a manufacturer ourselves, we are constantly fighting with having to produce offshore to stay competitive because of what our competition is doing. If we ever do produce offshore, We are handing those jobs over, china isn't taking them. There's a big difference in the perception of the two of these..
This is not an American/Canadian thing, it's a North American thing (americans).. anyways I realize that only applies to US citizens when you are one. Either way, I was in context to the post "China steals Americans jobs"
Japan doesn't/didn't have a problem with offshore work because they have a 300% import tax... That's the government protecting local jobs... They're saying go ahead and import stuff, but you'll have to pay into the government system to do so at a very large rate. Guess what happens... very few imports on goods that can be produced locally.
The US/Canadian Governments could do the same if they wanted to protect American jobs. China doesn't steal anything. Consumer demand pushes industries to fill those demands. Period! (or period period?) There are only ourselves (consumers to blame) not industry or big corps (although corporations are another set of evil we'll save for another convo). If consumers demanded $2,500 iphones that where built NA, then we would have them. We don't because there's no demand for them.
We love to talk of social and humanitarian injustice and blame third world countries for treating their people badly, but we do so by tweeting these injustices on an iphone/(other phone insert here.. hate to pic on one company) built by them... If your so concerned about it, stop buying the product. I'm not saying I'm holier than though, I just don't complain about the injustice over there.
... are you talking about?... the original post I was quoting said "China's steeling AMERICAN jobs" so I responded that china doesn't steal anything from American's... which was not only referring to the original context of the post, but was referring to North Americans/South Americans... AMERICANS. not MERICANS... that would be you.
Had I been referring to only MERICANS I would have preluded it with Greedy and Fat so that we where clear.
Plus.. I wasn't referring to anything about what you/I or anyone else BUYS from china... but rather what CHINA isn't taking from US.. that better...
Where the F you are coming from with that post... I have no idea. It seems like you have a better handle on the state of yourself than I so I'll leave it alone.
Really to make it all simpler for anyone here that didn't understand where I was coming from... I can't stand when People (Mericans or otherwise) blame other countries or people for there own problems... I'm not Chinese, I'm not Merican... but china is only filling a void that you've asked them to fill... you can't now turn around and blame them... although I know you love to villainize other countries like that don't you (poster.. not all Mericans, although from here it seems like that sometimes)... take responsibility for your own pile of crap and stop blaming everyone else. The Chinese are completely passive in this instance. The only one actively sending jobs to china is YOU!
You sound like the type of person to polk a tiger at the zoo until he bites you, then blame and invade Africa for allowing such a vile beast to exist.
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Wow, that post looks a lot longer after posting it... sorry.
Oh and my banner... it's just a counter to remind me how long I've stayed away from the vice/addiction that would have eventually taken me from my kids....
As far as saving money goes... LOL... I've been vaping for 5 weeks and have spent 1.5 years worth of smoking analogs on vaping gear. I havn't saved anything.
Oh and my banner... it's just a counter to remind me how long I've stayed away from the vice/addiction that would have eventually taken me from my kids....
As far as saving money goes... LOL... I've been vaping for 5 weeks and have spent 1.5 years worth of smoking analogs on vaping gear. I havn't saved anything.
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What's even a little more bizarre about sig banners, is mine would say something like this (and be somewhat accurate):
17 hours, 12 minutes and 30 seconds since my last cigarette
$4800 saved and 12,038 cigarettes avoided.
But, I'm not sure if they make those sig banners for people who choose to still smoke and vape.
I currently spend $40 a month on logs. Used to spend that much in 2 to 4 days.
My hypothetical sig banner would probably make some people scratch their heads, but reality is sig banners aren't telling a complete story.
17 hours, 12 minutes and 30 seconds since my last cigarette
$4800 saved and 12,038 cigarettes avoided.
But, I'm not sure if they make those sig banners for people who choose to still smoke and vape.
I currently spend $40 a month on logs. Used to spend that much in 2 to 4 days.
My hypothetical sig banner would probably make some people scratch their heads, but reality is sig banners aren't telling a complete story.
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