Indoor vaping in public spaces - not a battle worth fighting

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Jan 19, 2014
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H.P. Lovecraft once said that fear is the most powerful human emotion, and that fear of the unknown is the most potent variety of fear.

He's right.

Although I'm a relative newbie to vaping, I've essentially quit analog ciggies (yeah, I'll have a puff every now and then - just to remind myself why I stopped!). But before I dived in, I spent a lot of time Googling major news outlets' articles, reading posts on forums like this, and watching the zillions of YouTube vids on vaping. (Which didn't stop me from making the dumb mistake of buying the joyetech 510T unit - *sigh*.)

What I've noticed is that a lot of newbie vapers (along w/ plenty of experienced ones) seem to think that we should have the right to vape indoors in public spaces. Many still do, where it's legal.

In theory, that might be a scientifically reasonable point of view (especially with 0% e-juice). But I don't think it's a battle worth fighting right now - for two reasons.

1) We have too many other fish to fry. For example, the right to vape outdoors in public parks, college campuses (etc.), the right to buy e-juice and supplies interstate, not to mention the right to vape, period. (In fact, the more evidence that arises about the relative harmlessness of vaping, the louder the hue and cry becomes to ban vaping - in order to protect minors and/or because vaping is allegedly a "gateway" to tobacco burning.)

Do you want to be turned down for a job (or fired) because you vape? That's already happening - employers who refuse to hire analog smokers are also refusing to hire vapers. How about paying the same health insurance rates as analog smokers (that's also already the case).

You can probably forget about your fun flavors like custard or blueberry - these will likely go the way of flavored analog cigarettes. (Banned to protect children.)

Even worse: look out for the massive Federal, state, and local taxes that are going to clobber us in a few years, once more and more people like me are no longer paying taxes on analog ciggies. Imagine paying the same amount of taxes per ml. of e-juice as an analog smoker pays on a pack! (Once more people like me stop smoking analog ciggies, that missing revenue is going to have to come from somewhere, right?) And by the way, once states start taxing e-liquid, you won't be able to buy it off the internet any more (same thing happened with analog cigarettes).

Are all of these things less important as any supposed "right" to vape indoors? (Not in my book.)

2) At the end of the day, the U.S. is a democracy in the sense that that the majority usually gets what it wants. And it's a whole lot harder for non-smoker/non-vapers to become enlightened, than it is for them to cheer on the ignorant journalists, politicians, and health professionals who are going to continue to make vapers' lives miserable in every way that they possibly can (through taxation, regulation, biased studies, and just plain old fear-mongering).

They say "honesty is the best policy," but most folks in a position of shaping public opinion would rather advance their careers by taking the easy way out. Fear beats facts, ninety-nine times out of a hundred, and a lie gets all the way around the world while the truth is still putting on its boots. (Just ask any Muslim who lived in the US shortly after 9/11. Or ask any gay schoolteacher who has been teaching for more than a couple of decades.)

So please - don't vape indoors in a public space (even if it's legal where you live). And don't vape indoors in a private area (even if it's your own home and you have non-smoking/non-vaping guests, or you have non-smoking/non-vaping passengers in your own car).

For every person whom you educate, you're going to scare the daylights out of two more, thus increasing public support for even more horrendous anti-vaping rhetoric, journalism, taxation, regulation, and legislation.

Happy vapin' :)

--roger
 
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SchmidtyKy

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I agree, we have much bigger fish to fry at this point.

Vaping in public-if the lawmakers say we can't do it....I guess I don't really care since it's been years since we've been allowed to smoke indoors in public places. I don't really care about that.


But I will vape in my own house. And in my own car. Regardless of what kind of guests/passengers I have. But I rarely have guests, and the ones I would welcome to my home know I vape. In fact, I used to smoke cigs in my house before I quit. It's MY home. I own it. I pay for it.

Just be courteous. Don't blow clouds in the faces of others. If you want to vape in a public place (bar, etc), ask permission before doing so. Common courtesy.
 
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glovedo09

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Jan 17, 2014
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I vaped in a bar last night. I asked the bartender if it was okay, and he asked me to explain it a little more. We talked for 30 minutes about it, he tried it, and said he was going to buy one and quit smoking himself. While yes I can see your point, the only absolutes in life are death and taxes. If we don't vape in public, how do we get the word out that it is actually safe. I say as long as you have the permission of the owner of the property (or a designee) vape on.
 

SchmidtyKy

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I vaped in a bar last night. I asked the bartender if it was okay, and he asked me to explain it a little more. We talked for 30 minutes about it, he tried it, and said he was going to buy one and quit smoking himself. While yes I can see your point, the only absolutes in life are death and taxes. If we don't vape in public, how do we get the word out that it is actually safe. I say as long as you have the permission of the owner of the property (or a designee) vape on.

I also vaped in my favorite bar last night. First time I did it inside, as I'm usually on the patio, but it's too cold for that! I got permission from the bouncers before vaping on. It was all good, no problems. Just like with any thing in life, just use common courtesy.
 

billiam

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Hi Roger.
I agree we have nothing to fear but fear itself, but the government is walking a tightrope here. If they take away our only cheap proven effective way to quit smoking tobacco through taxation, they will be proving that they NEVER cared about peoples health and the high costs of dealing with the diseases caused by tobacco when they started taxing it in the first place.

I know it's going to be a hard habit to break but there is a stigma attached every time we say e-cig or e-cigarette in our every day conversations about PVD's.

I tried not to make this sound like a rant and probably didn't do a very good job of it.

Sorry
 
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Bill's Magic Vapor

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Vaping anywhere is about respect of others, and plain old common sense. Suggesting we should not or cannot vape indoors is the ANTZ policy, not the policy of most responsible vapers. Being careful to respect others is the only way to go, indoors, outdoors, at home. However, if we don't stand up for our rights, we will not have any rights, and while there may be bigger fish to fry, giving ground won't help us with the ANTZ. So, I respect your views completely, but I won't follow them. That being said, because I will only vape respectfully, I will not jeopardize our rights either. My two cents. YMMV. Good luck in your VapeQuest.
 

Asmo6

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However, if we don't stand up for our rights, we will not have any rights, and while there may be bigger fish to fry, giving ground won't help us

100%. Ask the gun rights activists how every compromise turned out for the actual gun owners? It's ALWAYS - TAKE. They never give. They ban, and each stroke of the pen whittles you down to less and less ground to stand on. Pretty soon there will be designated vaping areas. And they will stuff you into the same box as smokers. Treat you like garbage, tax the crap out of everything, and regulate it into the ground.

Stand your ground or suffer the death from 1000 cuts.

Like all 'hot button' topics that people do not actually understand - at all. And rely on emotional or stereotypes to make legal decisions about. Educating, is probably the most beneficial thing you can do.
 

NealBJr

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I just got through with a similar post. Common courtesy should take place. IF you vape in public, at LEAST do it stealth. Don't take your quad coil sub ohm drippers into Wal-mart, things like that should only be done in homes, or places where it's accepted. A bit of common courtesy is in place in most cases where the legality issues are not relevant. As I said in another post, it is not illegal to have sex nor designated sex areas, but do not have sex in Wal-Mart, or you will certainly be kicked out and/or arrested.
 

StarsAndBars

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This can all be so simple. If smoking is allowed somewhere, so should be vaping. I know they aren't the same but the gen public has trouble making that distinction (a fact which is well known). Just because we quit smoking and now use an electronic device that vaporizes or nic doesn't give us free reign over public places or excuse us from consideration of others. I can't wrap my head around how this truth escapes so many.

"What I've noticed is that a lot of newbie vapers (along w/ plenty of experienced ones) seem to think that we should have the right to vape indoors in public spaces. Many still do, where it's legal."


These are precisely the kind of people that are doing harm to the vaping community whether they realize it or not. Someone posted a thread the other day asking if they should be able to vape on a plane. There was an alarming amount of response from people submitting that vaping should be allowed on a plane. Sigh.

There seems to be this 'we need to educate society about vaping' sentiment while what we need is to educate the vaping community about society.
 
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bogmonster

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Hey Roger,
While I agree to a point on the "Gotta pick your battles" position, it's the equating vaping to smoking premise that we need to nip in the bud (well, rip out by the roots, actually), and things should follow from there.

I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but...
Medically, vaping is to smoking as tofu is to grilled steak (though I do so love my grilled steak).

There's no harm in vaping, just a weird misplaced fear that it looks like and may lead to something else that does harm, and we're being punished for that. We need to change the focus of the public debate on this. We (you and I) won't be able to convince our legislators of this; we have to convince the community at large. Once we change the tone of the squeaky wheel, the political response will follow.

The batteries in and of themselves are nothing special (sorry mod-ers, no offence). They vaporize benign liquids with flavours. Yum.
Oh yeah, using nicotine in these liquids have shown an amazing, though anecdotal at this time, ability to help wean smokers off the tobacco products that government and health care industries have been braying about for 50+ years.
 

EddardinWinter

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H.P. Lovecraft once said that fear is the most powerful human emotion, and that fear of the unknown is the most potent variety of fear.

He's right.

Although I'm a relative newbie to vaping, I've essentially quit analog ciggies (yeah, I'll have a puff every now and then - just to remind myself why I stopped!). But before I dived in, I spent a lot of time Googling major news outlets' articles, reading posts on forums like this, and watching the zillions of YouTube vids on vaping. (Which didn't stop me from making the dumb mistake of buying the JoyeTech 510T unit - *sigh*.)

What I've noticed is that a lot of newbie vapers (along w/ plenty of experienced ones) seem to think that we should have the right to vape indoors in public spaces. Many still do, where it's legal.

In theory, that might be a scientifically reasonable point of view (especially with 0% e-juice). But I don't think it's a battle worth fighting right now - for two reasons.

1) We have too many other fish to fry. For example, the right to vape outdoors in public parks, college campuses (etc.), the right to buy e-juice and supplies interstate, not to mention the right to vape, period. (In fact, the more evidence that arises about the relative harmlessness of vaping, the louder the hue and cry becomes to ban vaping - in order to protect minors and/or because vaping is allegedly a "gateway" to tobacco burning.)

Do you want to be turned down for a job (or fired) because you vape? That's already happening - employers who refuse to hire analog smokers are also refusing to hire vapers. How about paying the same health insurance rates as analog smokers (that's also already the case).

You can probably forget about your fun flavors like custard or blueberry - these will likely go the way of flavored analog cigarettes. (Banned to protect children.)

Even worse: look out for the massive Federal, state, and local taxes that are going to clobber us in a few years, once more and more people like me are no longer paying taxes on analog ciggies. Imagine paying the same amount of taxes per ml. of e-juice as an analog smoker pays on a pack! (Once more people like me stop smoking analog ciggies, that missing revenue is going to have to come from somewhere, right?) And by the way, once states start taxing e-liquid, you won't be able to buy it off the internet any more (same thing happened with analog cigarettes).

Are all of these things less important as any supposed "right" to vape indoors? (Not in my book.)

2) At the end of the day, the U.S. is a democracy in the sense that that the majority usually gets what it wants. And it's a whole lot harder for non-smoker/non-vapers to become enlightened, than it is for them to cheer on the ignorant journalists, politicians, and health professionals who are going to continue to make vapers' lives miserable in every way that they possibly can (through taxation, regulation, biased studies, and just plain old fear-mongering).

They say "honesty is the best policy," but most folks in a position of shaping public opinion would rather advance their careers by taking the easy way out. Fear beats facts, ninety-nine times out of a hundred, and a lie gets all the way around the world while the truth is still putting on its boots. (Just ask any Muslim who lived in the US shortly after 9/11. Or ask any gay schoolteacher who has been teaching for more than a couple of decades.)

So please - don't vape indoors in a public space (even if it's legal where you live). And don't vape indoors in a private area (even if it's your own home and you have non-smoking/non-vaping guests, or you have non-smoking/non-vaping passengers in your own car).

For every person whom you educate, you're going to scare the daylights out of two more, thus increasing public support for even more horrendous anti-vaping rhetoric, journalism, taxation, regulation, and legislation.

Happy vapin' :)

--roger


So you make some decent points and make them pretty well...up to a the bolded part.

Don't you think it is a bit presumptuous of you to tell me "don't vape in my own home or car because non-vapers are there?"

I will continue to vape in my home, my car, outdoors in any place regardless of regulation, in public places where it is permitted by the owner (several bars I frequent are happy to permit it), and at my friends houses who permit it. I also vape in my private office at work (with the business owner's grace, naturally) when I don't have a client in it with me.

You have your way of vaping, I have mine. I won't tell you how to vape. Can you extend me the same courtesy, please? I also ask that you not start in on me with the "you are gonna ruin vaping for everyone" bit.
 
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Traver

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2) At the end of the day, the U.S. is a democracy in the sense that that the majority usually gets what it wants. And it's a whole lot harder for non-smoker/non-vapers to become enlightened, than it is for them to cheer on the ignorant journalists, politicians, and health professionals who are going to continue to make vapers' lives miserable in every way that they possibly can (through taxation, regulation, biased studies, and just plain old fear-mongering).

The majority of the people in this country have a favorable view of vaping. There is no majority support for legislation with the exception of sales to minors.
 
Jan 19, 2014
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Alert: ramble warning.

... If they take away our only cheap proven effective way to quit smoking tobacco through taxation, they will be proving that they NEVER cared about peoples health and the high costs of dealing with the diseases caused by tobacco when they started taxing it in the first place.

I know it's going to be a hard habit to break but there is a stigma attached every time we say e-cig or e-cigarette in our every day conversations about PVD's.

Billiam there could be a difference of opinion about whether the gov't cares about people's health - as Gresh11 points out, we do (at least in some ways) live in a corporation rather than a democracy. (Which is why I said that the majority "usually" gets what it wants.)

You make an excellent point about language. Kinda reminds me of other mistakes that were probably unavoidable which the e-industry made in its infancy: such as promoting vaping as a smoking cessation methodology (of course the FDA won't let them do that anymore) and making PVDs look like analog cigarettes (perhaps in an effort to convert smokers). Implying that vaping was harmless was another possible goof: nicotine isn't necessarily good for everyone (but no more harmful than caffeine, I think).

The ANTZ are now using all of these things against vapers and the industry.

Tnat said, the fact that something which looks like smoke is inhaled from a cylindrical object, and then exhaled is something that we can never get away from. It's a natural human reaction - if people are only familiar with tobacco burning devices, then they're instinctively going to view vapers and vaping in exactly the same way. (On the other hand, it's the similarities between vaping and smoking which probably explain why vaping works so much better as a smoking cessation method than gum, the patch, and nicotine inhalers. It's a double-edged sword.)

I'm in my 50s, and I don't anticipate that these attitudes will change in my lifetime. But then ... I never thought pot would be legalized anywhere in the US during my lifetime, either. Hopefully I'll be wrong about this, too. Frankly I'm not sure what it is about us Americans - our first instinct always seems to be one of controling and regulating other people's personal habits (for their own good, or the good of society, or to protect children, etc.) It'll be interesting to see how this plays out abroad, too.
 

Free6413

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I started typing a response to this and it went so long, I was dropped for inactivity. I guess this will spark some controversy but here goes. I believe that the greasy wheel get the grease first. Same with gun control, gay rights and a million other of today's issues. It would appear that the uneducated and fear mongering win all the time. This is because the silent majority remains silent. It will remain this way as long as the people believe the BG will make the right decision for the majority. How's that working for us? There was a little "party" in Boston over a tea tax. Some seem to forget. It is every citizens responsibility to protect their rights. Whether it is popular or not. That is my :2c:
 

EddardinWinter

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I started typing a response to this and it went so long, I was dropped for inactivity. I guess this will spark some controversy but here goes. I believe that the greasy wheel get the grease first. Same with gun control, gay rights and a million other of today's issues. It would appear that the uneducated and fear mongering win all the time. This is because the silent majority remains silent. It will remain this way as long as the people believe the BG will make the right decision for the majority. How's that working for us? There was a little "party" in Boston over a tea tax. Some seem to forget. It is every citizens responsibility to protect their rights. Whether it is popular or not. That is my :2c:

I am pretty sure you meant "squeaky wheel", but I still liked the post.
 
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