Indoor vaping in public spaces - not a battle worth fighting

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Bill's Magic Vapor

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This can all be so simple. If smoking is allowed somewhere, so should be vaping. I know they aren't the same but the gen public has trouble making that distinction (a fact which is well known). Just because we quit smoking and now use an electronic device that vaporizes or nic doesn't give us free reign over public places or excuse us from consideration of others. I can't wrap my head around how this truth escapes so many.

"What I've noticed is that a lot of newbie vapers (along w/ plenty of experienced ones) seem to think that we should have the right to vape indoors in public spaces. Many still do, where it's legal."


These are precisely the kind of people that are doing harm to the vaping community whether they realize it or not. Someone posted a thread the other day asking if they should be able to vape on a plane. There was an alarming amount of response from people submitting that vaping should be allowed on a plane. Sigh.

There seems to be this 'we need to educate society about vaping' sentiment while what we need is to educate the vaping community about society.

I don't see any experienced vapers saying anything about having free reign, or vaping without respect of others. Certainly there are those that promote unlimited, unfettered access in public, but they are few and far between, from what I've seen, and don't represent the majority. The experienced vapers that I know understand and integrate into society just fine, without advice from the ANTZ, allowing good judgment, common sense, respect of others, and common courtesy to guide them. Give it a try. It works.

Everyone is responsible for themselves. That responsibility ends there, and does not extend to my vaping, where my responsibility begins. Respecting others means accepting that people have different view points, and accepting them as their opinion, one they are entitled to. Telling others what to do, is not a part of my reference point, and I don't understand why so many misguided folks keep trying to tell me and others what to do. If I were hurting myself or others, I would feel differently, but, thus far, all the evidence seems to point toward a relative harmlessness to me and others. I say stow it. I won't vape in your bar, when you say that you don't want me to vape in your bar. It's their choice, not mine. If they don't have a problem with it, I don't have a problem with it, again, respect being a guiding principle always.
 

StarsAndBars

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I started typing a response to this and it went so long, I was dropped for inactivity. I guess this will spark some controversy but here goes. I believe that the greasy wheel get the grease first. Same with gun control, gay rights and a million other of today's issues. It would appear that the uneducated and fear mongering win all the time. This is because the silent majority remains silent. It will remain this way as long as the people believe the BG will make the right decision for the majority. How's that working for us? There was a little "party" in Boston over a tea tax. Some seem to forget. It is every citizens responsibility to protect their rights. Whether it is popular or not. That is my :2c:

This topic never gets old to me. There are so many convincing arguments to be made for both sides of the debate. I don't agree with you on this issue, but you made a very good point here.
 

BillyWJ

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H.P. Lovecraft once said that fear is the most powerful human emotion, and that fear of the unknown is the most potent variety of fear.

He's right.

Although I'm a relative newbie to vaping, I've essentially quit analog ciggies (yeah, I'll have a puff every now and then - just to remind myself why I stopped!). But before I dived in, I spent a lot of time Googling major news outlets' articles, reading posts on forums like this, and watching the zillions of YouTube vids on vaping. (Which didn't stop me from making the dumb mistake of buying the JoyeTech 510T unit - *sigh*.)

What I've noticed is that a lot of newbie vapers (along w/ plenty of experienced ones) seem to think that we should have the right to vape indoors in public spaces. Many still do, where it's legal.

In theory, that might be a scientifically reasonable point of view (especially with 0% e-juice). But I don't think it's a battle worth fighting right now - for two reasons.

1) We have too many other fish to fry. For example, the right to vape outdoors in public parks, college campuses (etc.), the right to buy e-juice and supplies interstate, not to mention the right to vape, period. (In fact, the more evidence that arises about the relative harmlessness of vaping, the louder the hue and cry becomes to ban vaping - in order to protect minors and/or because vaping is allegedly a "gateway" to tobacco burning.)

Do you want to be turned down for a job (or fired) because you vape? That's already happening - employers who refuse to hire analog smokers are also refusing to hire vapers. How about paying the same health insurance rates as analog smokers (that's also already the case).

You can probably forget about your fun flavors like custard or blueberry - these will likely go the way of flavored analog cigarettes. (Banned to protect children.)

Even worse: look out for the massive Federal, state, and local taxes that are going to clobber us in a few years, once more and more people like me are no longer paying taxes on analog ciggies. Imagine paying the same amount of taxes per ml. of e-juice as an analog smoker pays on a pack! (Once more people like me stop smoking analog ciggies, that missing revenue is going to have to come from somewhere, right?) And by the way, once states start taxing e-liquid, you won't be able to buy it off the internet any more (same thing happened with analog cigarettes).

Are all of these things less important as any supposed "right" to vape indoors? (Not in my book.)

2) At the end of the day, the U.S. is a democracy in the sense that that the majority usually gets what it wants. And it's a whole lot harder for non-smoker/non-vapers to become enlightened, than it is for them to cheer on the ignorant journalists, politicians, and health professionals who are going to continue to make vapers' lives miserable in every way that they possibly can (through taxation, regulation, biased studies, and just plain old fear-mongering).

They say "honesty is the best policy," but most folks in a position of shaping public opinion would rather advance their careers by taking the easy way out. Fear beats facts, ninety-nine times out of a hundred, and a lie gets all the way around the world while the truth is still putting on its boots. (Just ask any Muslim who lived in the US shortly after 9/11. Or ask any gay schoolteacher who has been teaching for more than a couple of decades.)

So please - don't vape indoors in a public space (even if it's legal where you live). And don't vape indoors in a private area (even if it's your own home and you have non-smoking/non-vaping guests, or you have non-smoking/non-vaping passengers in your own car).

For every person whom you educate, you're going to scare the daylights out of two more, thus increasing public support for even more horrendous anti-vaping rhetoric, journalism, taxation, regulation, and legislation.

Happy vapin' :)

--roger

You make some good points, except for what I do in my home. If you come to my house, there WILL be vaping done. Not around kids, but around adults, it's going to happen. I've yet to have anyone complain, everyone I know either still smokes, used to smoke, and are completely supportive of my vaping and have NO problems with it. As I don't regularly invite strangers into my home, it's not an issue.
 
Jan 19, 2014
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Obviously there is some disagreement about what effect vaping inside public places will have on members of the ignorant public. Fair enough, we are all entitled to our opinions about whatever cause-and-effect relationship may (or may not) exist, and/or whether indoor vaping in public places is worth fighting for as a public policy matter, or whether indoor vaping helps to educate people who need to be a bit more enlightened, etc.

(Although I continue to believe that the battle for indoor vaping rights in public places is a fruitless one: it's only a matter of time until every state in the U.S. passes legislation equating vaping with tobacco burning in that context.)

I personally will continue to (discreetly) vape in public parks or in other outdoor areas in which it's prohibited. Because I don't see a cause-and-effect relationship there.

And I stand corrected on some indoor areas ... there may be contexts in which discreet indoor vaping has no effect on the attitudes of non-smoker/non-vapers, no matter how ignorant they may be (because they don't know it's occuring).
 

Traver

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You make an excellent point about language. Kinda reminds me of other mistakes that were probably unavoidable which the e-industry made in its infancy: such as promoting vaping as a smoking cessation methodology (of course the FDA won't let them do that anymore) and making PVDs look like analog cigarettes (perhaps in an effort to convert smokers). Implying that vaping was harmless was another possible goof: nicotine isn't necessarily good for everyone (but no more harmful than caffeine, I think).

I don't understand your reasoning. It is a smoking cessation device. The public knows that. You seem to be implying that we should give up the best and most important weapon we have. Vendors cannot say that but we sure can.
 

mackgattack

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I don't vape indoors in public places. If one person finds it disrespectful, it's not worth it and I'm not willing to piss someone off for my own personal satisfaction. I do, however, enjoying vaping in the comfort of my own home, car, and outdoors but I'm still respectful as to whether others are nearby and want/don't want to be around it :)
 

Frenchfry1942

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At being 3 weeks without a cigarette, I do it more stealthily. My priority is when I get a nicotine urge. I stay way from the "clouding" in public. I have not asked any owner/operator if they minded if I vape, and yes, I call it vaping, but I find a stall in a bathroom and while I do my business...I do my business.

I'm not all that interested in the cloud.

Jere
 

CShaver

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Last week I was vaping in Chucky Cheese's while my kids played games. No one said a word to me lol.

I vape wherever I am. I've gotten used to stealth vaping, so I'm not blowing huge clouds of vapor, but I don't try to hide my APV.

I've vaped in stores, resturants, hospitals, hotels, movie theaters, banks, work, etc. and have never had anyone tell me to stop or treat me with any disrespect. Maybe I'm just lucky, I don't know.
 

grandmato5

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Vaping anywhere is about respect of others, and plain old common sense. Suggesting we should not or cannot vape indoors is the ANTZ policy, not the policy of most responsible vapers. Being careful to respect others is the only way to go, indoors, outdoors, at home. However, if we don't stand up for our rights, we will not have any rights, and while there may be bigger fish to fry, giving ground won't help us with the ANTZ. So, I respect your views completely, but I won't follow them. That being said, because I will only vape respectfully, I will not jeopardize our rights either. My two cents. YMMV. Good luck in your VapeQuest.

+1 what Bill said. :)
 

StarsAndBars

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Last week I was vaping in Chucky Cheese's while my kids played games. No one said a word to me lol.

I vape wherever I am. I've gotten used to stealth vaping, so I'm not blowing huge clouds of vapor, but I don't try to hide my APV.

I've vaped in stores, resturants, hospitals, hotels, movie theaters, banks, work, etc. and have never had anyone tell me to stop or treat me with any disrespect. Maybe I'm just lucky, I don't know.

I see this as a great example of how not to vape. Nothing against you man, because by the posts of yours that I've read you seem like a cool dude. I just can't imagine how you think vaping in such places resembles a wise choice.
 
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CShaver

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I see this as a great example of how not to vape. Nothing against you man, because by the posts of yours that I've read you seem like a cool dude. I just can't imagine how you think vaping in such places resembles a wise choice.

I understand where you're coming from. But personally, I vape because I like it and I want my Nicotine. IF someone ever had a problem with it and asked me to stop, I absolutely would. But if they're not going to say anything, why would it automatically be a problem?

Like I said, I'm very used to stealth vaping. So when I exhale, nothing comes out. I could see it being a problem if I was blowing vapor clouds into everyone's face, but I'm not. I assume that's exactly the reason no one ever says anything to me.

The way I see it, is you'll never figure out where you can and can't vape if you don't try. Like I said, if anyone would ask me to stop, I would. I just don't see a problem with vaping, especially stealth vaping, when no one says anything lol.

(btw, if in any way I sound rude, I absolutely didn't mean to. Just conversing :p)
 

Traver

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I see this as a great example of how not to vape. Nothing against you man, because by the posts of yours that I've read you seem like a cool dude. I just can't imagine how you think vaping in such places resembles a wise choice.

Call it education, people can see and smell that it is nothing like a cigarette.
In all my years of vaping I have only one mild complaint about the smell. So took I another pv out of my pocket with peach juice. She was ok with that.
 
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I don't understand your reasoning. It is a smoking cessation device. The public knows that. You seem to be implying that we should give up the best and most important weapon we have. Vendors cannot say that but we sure can.

The fact that vendors initially ran afoul of the FDA by touting PVDs as a smokung cessation mechanism is frequently mentioned by opponents as yet another reason to support an outright ban or at least additional restrictions: in other words, this is allegedly a reason not to trust the industry.

It's an effective form of guilt by association, which is why the vast majority of anti-vaping articles generally cite it.

The not-so-subtle message is: "Vaping supports this nefarious industry, as do vapers."

This same tactic has been used successfully for many decades against the analog cigarette industry (which probably deserved it) - and by extension, analog smokers (who did not).

I certainly wasn't suggesting that vapers (or medical professionals, for that matter) shouldn't cite the effectiveness of PVDs in reducing the incidence of tobacco burning.
 
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patkin

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Well... some of it went that way anyway.... sooooo:

Most of OP 2) but specificially:

" At the end of the day, the U.S. is a democracy in the sense that that the majority usually gets what it wants. "

I don't agree with this. I've lived long enough to have seen that the majority do NOT rule. The most powerful do. Those powerful often regulate or vote, whichever their position affords them, based on whatever serves THEIR personal interests most... continued or more power, finances or ideology. But, yes, they often need to use propaganda to influence the masses for support but not always. Sometimes they just "do it" in spite of those masses.

As for my private home or property. Sorry, I'll do whatever I dam# well please there short of breaking the law and in some cases will even break the law there if I deem my action not harmful to anyone. Why? Because of what I said above. Laws that are designed to serve no one but the powerful do not interest me. I'll do what's best for myself and my loved ones.

I vape in my home and my car. If anyone dislikes that, they're free to leave and not return. I am respectful however. In my home, I don't sit close to anyone while I vape including animals. I do ask a first-time visitor who may not have known me to be a vaper and if the reasons for not wanting me to vape are reasonable, even if its just a personal perspective of theirs, I'll respect their personal space and most likely ask them to join me outside while I vape. I won't discuss the natue of vaping as I puff away unless they ask and I probably won't be inviting them back if they don't.
 
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