Is Cloning Ethical?

[Mad Scientist]

Or an inventor can patent a device, put it in the market, and half the world can steal the design with no recourse... Of course this doesn't apply to ecigs, but in general, just because something can be stolen without punishment doesn't make it ok to steal.

I agree with you but as far as I know, that's not what we're talking about here. I live in the United States and so everything I buy is subject to U.S. patent law. Foreign inventors can patent their stuff here if their concern is having it copied anywhere else and sold here. Not much I can do about what happens half a world away lol.

If we want to expand the discussion, there are avenues to pursue to obtain and enforce patents internationally. I limited my discussion to the U.S. to avoid over-complicating the discussion.

The patent system is well known the world over and if an inventor chooses to forego obtaining patents, then invention is in the public domain. As one man's opinion, I would not hesitate to buy a product in the public domain and I wouldn't give it a second thought. Likewise, I would not knowingly buy anything that infringed a valid patent.

 

[BlueMoods]

I know my view is not the popular view but, as with anything, be that food, clothing, a computer, whatever I am going to buy the lowest priced item that appears to meet my needs first. If it is of good enough quality to satisfy me, that's enough, if not, I will try a different brand of the same item.

Now often the el cheapo (clone) is plenty good and, that's what I have, sometimes the close isn't good enough and, I end up with the name brand. After a while you learn what you are okay having the generic (clone) of and what you need the name brand of to be content with the item.

I won't pay extra for a name, I will pay extra for quality, no matter who makes it. I doubt I am the only one, so ethical or not doesn't really matter, clones will be made and, people will buy them. Soon enough we figure out who makes good quality clones and who is pumping out junk and, we don't buy the junk.

Why pay 3.00 for Best Foods mayo when Blue Ribbon mayo tastes just as good and is just as creamy for 1.50? And Why buy a Joytech ego battery for 20.00 if the Joe Schmoe ego clone battery lasts as long and performs just as well for 10.00?

 

[xan13x]

I know my view is not the popular view but, as with anything, be that food, clothing, a computer, whatever I am going to buy the lowest priced item that appears to meet my needs first. If it is of good enough quality to satisfy me, that's enough, if not, I will try a different brand of the same item.

Now often the el cheapo (clone) is plenty good and, that's what I have, sometimes the close isn't good enough and, I end up with the name brand. After a while you learn what you are okay having the generic (clone) of and what you need the name brand of to be content with the item.

I won't pay extra for a name, I will pay extra for quality, no matter who makes it. I doubt I am the only one, so ethical or not doesn't really matter, clones will be made and, people will buy them. Soon enough we figure out who makes good quality clones and who is pumping out junk and, we don't buy the junk.

Why pay 3.00 for Best Foods mayo when Blue Ribbon mayo tastes just as good and is just as creamy for 1.50? And Why buy a Joytech ego battery for 20.00 if the Joe Schmoe ego clone battery lasts as long and performs just as well for 10.00?

For one, very rarely are ecig related clones of similar quality to the original. The most common exception being very simple devices. I think you oversimplify it on that front. Mayo us not an ego battery, and funny you use that example because there are limitless reviews of knock off ego batteries being garbage.

Also, paying extra for a name happens a lot in other, maybe more established markets, but in ecigs the machining and engineering on originals, especially American and European, devices is amazing. You can feel it in every aspect of them. We aren't talking store brand(most likely made by the name brand manufacturer) vs name brand mayo here.

 

[Dtori]

Im on the fence about this subject. Most of the original manufactures of mods dont make enough of them! By the time I hear about the mod I try to find them for sale and guess what they are sold out! If the original company would make them readily available I wouldn't buy a clone! So in a sense I agree with clones because China can produce them by the millions and have them readily available to all who wants them. And also if it comes down to a huge price difference then Im going with the cheaper as long as the build quality is up to par. I just bought a V3 clone for $18 from china that works just as well as the real Sentinel that costs $200 + depending on the options you choose. I work hard for my money and that pricing is too steep for me...

 

[pastubbs]

Here we go again.

First - DEFINE CLONING

We seem to label everything that comes out of China as a clone......................NOT

ETA - Guess I should mention - not angry - lol - just want to know the Rules

I'm not aware of anyone doing this in the ecig world. There are a lot of 'similar', much lower cost items available. Examples would help explain.

conclusion:
I've come to the conclusion that there are two type of people that buy clones weather it be knives, e-cig mods, ETC. ETC. Type "A" those who can afford the real thing but its not available and type "B" those who can't afford the real thing even if they are available. So the origenal creator is not really losing a lot. I mean there are few sells they lose due to people buying real "clones"/counterfeits thinking their buying the real thing. That being said I own clones of models I like but wouldn't necessarily shell out the cash for or model that are not readily available and I own originals of devices that I like so much that i am welling to pay the cost or stalk auctions and whatnot.

Thesis:
I think the real question here is are the mods we're calling "clones" really Clones. To me a clone is a counterfeit now when it comes to counterfeits that's a completely different thing. Counterfeits are copies of the original device and are marketed as originals and sold as originals. I have a Sigelei #19 which some would call a Nzonic clone. Side by side theres nothing on them that's close to being the same cept on the newer versions of the Sigelei #19 with the Nzonic style cap. If you take away that cap its just another telescoping tube mode. Now I have a Sentinel clone and a real sentinel and that's pretty much a "clone"/counterfeit of the original well for the most part. Things like contact points and whatnot or different but the basic of the mod are the same product.

As a knife collector this comes up all the time IE. I just recently went to Blade Show a few months ago and all I keep seeing where knives that resembled Hinderer's knives. Now I wouldn't call those copy/"clones" more or less someone else's take on the design, some of them where actually made from well known artist. Long story short I have nothing against clones[not counterfeits] if fact if someone was to "clone"[not counterfeit] my work to me that would be a compliment to the fact that my work is popular enough that it warrants cloning. I mean when your talking about customs there only so many that an individual or small group of people can manufacturer. IE there is going to be more people wanting the device then the rate at which the device can be made. And clones seems to fill that gap.

There's a little saying among artist of all types "you know you've made something great when people are trying to copy you"

 

[StereoDreamer]

China has no regard for patents or copyrights. Cloning is just typical business there, so I don't see any issues, since the original product was probably stolen from other products or ideas.

This may be true, but if these devices had US Patents, then patent holders could file suits to prevent importation or to prevent retailers from selling them.

The original manufacturers of these devices who don't patent their devices have no standing to complain about cloning if they don't take some measure to protect their intellectual property.

All that said, we need to remember that the entire Zenesis line is technically an unauthorized clone. Just sayin'...

 

[Uncle Willie]

Should it not be called a "knock-off" .. ??

 

[FLExJuice]

Coin them "i-Clone".

 

[harrycan]

Its like buying a pair of shnikies.

 

[Uncle Willie]

Its like buying a pair of shnikies.

Didn't John Candy wear those .. ??

 

[fourtytwo]

Is this thread a clone of another "Clone" thread?

 

[fourtytwo]

Yea, I mean, look at all that innovation that is coming out of fasttech!!! ...

Fasttech is a vendor, not a manufacturer. I would be extremely surprised if they came up with any innovative new device.

 

[FLExJuice]

Its like buying a pair of shnikies.

Or a Bolex! =D

 

[neofelis]

Or an inventor can patent a device, put it in the market, and half the world can steal the design with no recourse... Of course this doesn't apply to ecigs, but in general, just because something can be stolen without punishment doesn't make it ok to steal.

Yes it does make it fair as they haven't stolen anything. It never belonged to anyone technically. Even if they did patent the devices it would send them BROKE to pursue it.

So go on, patent everything but remember you can't patent something that already exists otherwise patent exploits can happen.

Wouldn't they just see it as a stainless steel tube with different grooves similar to the other one? Or perhaps a flash light with an attachment on top?

It's all done time and time again.

So suck it up c0kw4d.

 

[SissySpike]

Im going to copyright the word Clone as it applies to the description of a product then sue every one who infringes on my cpoyright;-)

 

[Ref Minor]

then sue every one who infringes on my cpoyright;-)

I see you are using a knock off of my trademarked word copyright™

 

[Kataphraktos]

I agree. I clone American jobs in foreign lands all the time. So when your children ask you why there's no dinner tonight, point at me and say "that heroic cloner sent my job to China for 1/10th the cost". And give me a medal and a bonus for making life cheaper for everyone at your expense. You're welcome!

Addendum: I'm the kind of Wall Street rat who believes in sanctioning countries that do not honor patents and trademarks. I also believe that a higher minimum wage improves our economy. I am a patriot. What are you?

 

[raqball]

I would never spend a cent on a clone.. It's just a blatant rip off of someone else work / design..

I have never owned a clone and never will.. Personally, I think clones are bottom dwelling scums of the earth..

My .02 off the price of a clone!

 

[GrandSam]

Don't know if it is ethical...but is definitely affordable.

 

[Maggiemw]

I would never spend a cent on a clone.. It's just a blatant rip off of someone else work / design..

I have never owned a clone and never will.. Personally, I think clones are bottom dwelling scums of the earth..

My .02 off the price of a clone!

Ah, err, probably everything you own is a "clone"/copy/closely-inspired facsimile/recent developmental upgrade of something.

Think about it. How many prototypes or hand-made 100% original-never-before-seen-or-mass-produced objects do we own and use everyday?

How does technology spread? How does it arrive down here at the level of we the masses? Sure you can have a real live Rolex, but what is that exactly? It's a wrist watch, doing what billions of other wrist watches do. Who invented its movement? Where do its batteries come from?

Even your pasta is a clone/copy of the original Chinese noodles "brought back" (aka stolen and copied) by Marco Polo. Don't get me started on Kraft Dinner...Where did potatoes, coffee, tea, sugar, tomatoes, corn, etc., etc., come from? Did anybody ask for permission to take a bunch of plants and raise them elsewhere?

Even my kids and cats are hybrids...