Some man made laws are broken to benefit the entire human race - cloning is one of em - wonders if 3D printers would soon be used to make my own clones at home.....hmmmmmm
Is Cloning Ethical?
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Well, as has been touched on, ethical behavior can mean very different things depending on geography. That is philosophy 101. As for ethics creating profit, I'm not convinced. Some of the most profitable companies in the US are always on the news for UNfair treatment of employes. One, the great WM, is a serial offender when it comes to the unfair treatment of women among other things. I don't think this is hurting their bottom line at all.
Anyway, b4 I go too far off topic, I still think the question itself is flawed. In all fairness, I will agree that using a products name as your own is going too far. Again, business ethics is an oximoron in my mind. The ethics that cooperations worry about is perceived ethics.....
No person or system is 100% ethical. It's a given. Maybe ethical was not the right way to put the question. I just wonder how the influx of clones affect the inventors and the 'cottage industry' nature of the vaping community.
Yes. Yes it is. I (and many others) cannot afford some of the stuff out there, or sometimes it's just straight up not available because the manufacturers are not making enough to meet demands.
If that mod can be made for cheaper - let someone make it for cheaper. If it still functions exactly the same, then right on. In the event it doesn't, that's where I have a problem. So long as the maker of the clone does clarify that it's not a perfect exact match - then I don't care.
If that mod can be made for cheaper - let someone make it for cheaper. If it still functions exactly the same, then right on. In the event it doesn't, that's where I have a problem. So long as the maker of the clone does clarify that it's not a perfect exact match - then I don't care.
Yep....the big WM. HOWEVER, I am not trying to open can of worms here.....
Will clones be the downfall of brilliant invention in vapeing? Don't ask me......lol
Will clones be the downfall of brilliant invention in vapeing? Don't ask me......lol
I have no problem with buying a well made device, be it name brand or off. One thing to remember is that every high-end genesis atomizer took their designs from Raidy, do any of them mention him for birthing this atomizer style? What defines a clone? Price tag? I'd argue that considering the King Mod is a $230 device, high-end yes, but it's also a blatent copy of a Chi You, sold by a vendor who started listing them in response to The Chi You manufacturer pulling their stock from said vendor. There are so few NEW ideas in vaping. Has it come a long way (even in the 2 years I've been vaping), it sure has. But a mech is a mech, some just have more bells and whistles and are made of better materials.
All that being said, there is a difference between cloning and fraud. When a vendor sells you a product at a premium and leads you to believe it is a certain brand when really it's a knock-off, that's just criminal. Same goes for when Chinese manufacturers steal an original logo and put it on a copied device. They could sell just as many with a different logo and probly more with none at all, but by doing so they are also participating in fraud.
It's one thing to copy design specs of a device. Not everyone is as creative as modders, but are able to reproduce their work. But at least be creative enough to call yours something different, sheesh!
All that being said, there is a difference between cloning and fraud. When a vendor sells you a product at a premium and leads you to believe it is a certain brand when really it's a knock-off, that's just criminal. Same goes for when Chinese manufacturers steal an original logo and put it on a copied device. They could sell just as many with a different logo and probly more with none at all, but by doing so they are also participating in fraud.
It's one thing to copy design specs of a device. Not everyone is as creative as modders, but are able to reproduce their work. But at least be creative enough to call yours something different, sheesh!
I was watching PBusardo videos yesterday. One of them had Mike from Zen. Toward the end Mike stated the specs for some Zen parts were open sourced and would give specs to anyone who contacted him. He had an interesting take on devices being cloned.
I'm not going to bother reading another clone thread with how the other one went. But I will say, no cloning is not ethical. If Sifo Dyas never visited the Kaminoans the republic would have lost some systems but never gained the military strength to develop into a strong authoritarian imperial power.
I didn't see the 1st one so didn't mean to offend. Saw some talk stemming from another reviewers take on clones and posted.
This is the classic "cure" argument. If Pfizer came up with a cure for AIDS tomorrow, should it be confiscated and distributed to everyone in need? I say no. The reason we have the system we have is that people are motivated by many things, and selfless love of humanity is rarely the first one. If you take Pfizer's drug "to benefit the entire human race" what do you think will happen to their research to cure cancer? It will cease.
This is obviously a whole different ball game, and I understand that some modders are ok with people using their ideas to mass produce products. I still think it would be professional courtesy to ask someone before taking their design.
Regardless of whether or not ethical behavior can mean different things geographically, I think we can all agree that there are certain things that are wrong regardless of the situation. I actually remember a college philosophy professor trying to teach us that moral relativity crap. Speaking of "geographic ethical relativity" is one step closer to individual ethical relativity... See where I'm going with this?
Cloning will continue because of the "clamoring" of people who want more and more stuff, and they want it cheap.
(How many complaints have I heard about the "price" of USA made stuff like Provari or REO? )
Even newbies are running to Fasttech, which I have said in many posts is not the way to start out (better to establish relationship with a local vendor who will answer questions, get your stuff to you fast, etc. ) But saving $2 is important I guess.
Each of our personal ethical standards are only standard if we actually use them.
It is more than lip service.
I have therefore, (in light of real-world behaviors of consumers) decided that clones are almost a necessity. Otherwise, people would do nothing but complain about the prices of things.
(How many complaints have I heard about the "price" of USA made stuff like Provari or REO? )
Even newbies are running to Fasttech, which I have said in many posts is not the way to start out (better to establish relationship with a local vendor who will answer questions, get your stuff to you fast, etc. ) But saving $2 is important I guess.
Each of our personal ethical standards are only standard if we actually use them.
It is more than lip service.I have therefore, (in light of real-world behaviors of consumers) decided that clones are almost a necessity. Otherwise, people would do nothing but complain about the prices of things.
Cloning will continue because of the "clamoring" of people who want more and more stuff, and they want it cheap.
(How many complaints have I heard about the "price" of USA made stuff like Provari or REO? )
Even newbies are running to Fasttech, which I have said in many posts is not the way to start out (better to establish relationship with a local vendor who will answer questions, get your stuff to you fast, etc. ) But saving $2 is important I guess.
Each of our personal ethical standards are only standard if we actually use them.
I have therefore, (in light of real-world behaviors of consumers) decided that clones are almost a necessity. Otherwise, people would do nothing but complain about the prices of things.
Chinese-made junk isn't really any cheaper, when we have to buy 10 of something just to get 6 that work. I'd be all over a ProVari, if they made a tank system to go along with it. Looks like Johnson Creek will come out with a tank for their VEA before ProVape does for the ProVari, though.
The World Health Organization had to put a certain amount of ethical pressure on some of the western drug companies to allow life-saving drugs to be produced generically so that millions of people in the developing world could benefit from them, notably HIV medication to prevent mother-to-child transmission.
The Big Pharma profit motive was overridden by the need to make life-saving treatments safely and effectively available to as much of mankind as possible. Thank goodness.
I work for one of those "ethical" corporations as well. Corporations are only as ethical as the law allows. We had a CEO. He fired 25K people in one year and got a $40M bonus. I fail to see how that is ethical. The same CEO was let go for violating ethical practices of the company. They paid him another $40M exit package and said it would not be good for the company to fight the exit package in the courts. I fail to see how that is ethical. Look at the lengths Apple went to dodge paying taxes ($0 on at least 30 billion dollars). Using corporations as an example of ethics is like using the mob as an example of good Catholics. They'll go to church while one other goombas sells heroine or wacks a guy on their orders.
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The corporation I work for is a little different. We are rated one of the most ethical corporations by The Ethisphere Institute. We don't even donate to political campaigns, yet have more government and military contracts than we can handle.
Apple is not on the list.
I actually don't think corporations should pay taxes, which are simply passed on to the consumer and take money away from the shareholders and investors- basically anyone with a 401k or retirement plan.
I'm not actually sure what a "clone" is. Exact same materials, design and workmanship? If so, I haven't seen one. But if a clone is similar but not exact meaning its got some improvements or is missing some features, perhaps safety, or is a lesser quality modifying it then, no, I don't think its unethical. Similar happens in all areas of women's fashions all the time. And by USA manufacturers not involving China. The best products often come from taking a current product and improving on it and the best prices come from taking one and making it for less. As a consumer I appreciate both. Now knockoffs that capitalize on the original [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]manufacturer's[/FONT] reputation and advertising as well as tricking the customer are another matter but I guess that's not what the OP wants [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]addressed/[/FONT]
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