Is Cloning Ethical?

[crxess]

We i.e. ECF Forum Members
Dubbed this a GGTS clone, the CCTS, etc. yaddy yaddy

Maybe often We are the cause of the problems argued in this thread



Never saw this as a clone or even a close copy of anything special.

 

[FLExJuice]

There's some good points against cloning but if a bootlegged PV and parts keeps people off analogs, then keep them coming. Now I need to figure out how I can clone myself so my clone goes to work.

 

[stevegmu]

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the 'clones' are actually made by the original manufacturer. They know some people just won't pay top dollar for their premium product, so they release a slightly inferior copy to placate the bottom of the market. Those not satisfied with the 'fake' then save up to buy the real product. They get sales either way.

 

[neofelis]

Clones are ethical. The ecig market has been destroyed due to mod makers selling $100 mods for $350 etc. Not to mention people then trying to resell for a further $100 profit.
Long waiting lists - this is to keep market value up
Lack of availability - drives prices and demand up

Instead of people saying "I won't buy that until it's readily available" they rush out and buy 3.

Clones stop all of this shonky backyard business practices in its tracks.

 

[moboblast]

Clones are ethical. The ecig market has been destroyed due to mod makers selling $100 mods for $350 etc. Not to mention people then trying to resell for a further $100 profit.
Long waiting lists - this is to keep market value up
Lack of availability - drives prices and demand up

Instead of people saying "I won't buy that until it's readily available" they rush out and buy 3.

Clones stop all of this shonky backyard business practices in its tracks.

I agree. These modders are probably making very limited amounts to drive up the demand.

 

[skakid812]

Cloning is present in TONS of markets, I dont see why its such a big deal just because most people are speaking about vapor hardware in specific. If cloning wasnt "ethical" than we would all be upset about off brand windex, toilet paper, MP3 players, TVs, etc etc all that other crap. I probably sound crazy.

 

[Racehorse]

I don't believe health care is a right, it is a privilege.

........

 

[neofelis]

So next time you see modders crying over a clone, point your finger and laugh at them. They deserve it and had it coming for not making their products readily available. If they were readily available people wouldn't need to buy clones. Also, If the chinese can make a mod for $12 then a modder can make them for $40. I understand most modders don't own CNC machines so they pay companies to do it for them but the cost price is definately not $300 or even $100.

I've heard of thailand companies selling Nzonic V3s for $115 wholesale price and resell at $200-$250 to keep them worth money.

The bottom line is, the Nzonic V3s are a $115 mod, if you paid more then you got ripped off by a vendor. Same applies with about 90% of other mods. Now keep in mind, if the creators are willing to sell them for $115 cost price would be about half that.

 

[dr g]

Interesting thoughts, for specific mods, availability is a key issue and if a modder is selling every unit they can make, then cloning actually works in their favor by basically advertising their mod. While it sucks to have a design flat out ripped off, there is a good bit of evidence that the wide availability of something drives up interest and sales of the original item.

Also, If the chinese can make a mod for $12 then a modder can make them for $40.

This, however, is absolutely, positively false. If a modder lives in the west, they absolutely will not be able to make them for that price, even at that quality, unless they source from China, which would be circular.

 

[Uncle Willie]

There once was a person that invented a thing called the "wheel" .. all wheels that came after were a copy of that first wheel .. some were diamond encrusted, some were just plain wheels .. but essentially, they all did the same thing .. roll ..

 

[surfnpuff]

It's a stupid battery tube. I don't see other people complaining when I go to Mexico and get a "rolex" and a pair of "oakley's" for $20. There's bigger things in the world to worry about like Iran or Korea trying to replicate our nuclear technology. That is something I do not want to see "cloned". My feelings are if these 'hand made' mod makers think they're going to become millionaires off of their battery tubes, they might want to get their head checked or look into building a factory. Otherwise keep it as a hobby, make some people happy and don't expect to get rich. The metal battery tube industry probably isn't the best industry to be in if you're looking to get rich making things by hand. There may be some exceptions, but in general stick to your day job.

One major problem I've noticed stemming from the vape community is there's too many vape philosophers and politicians. Go create a new forum and run for vape president. =)

 

[xan13x]

So next time you see modders crying over a clone, point your finger and laugh at them. They deserve it and had it coming for not making their products readily available. If they were readily available people wouldn't need to buy clones. Also, If the chinese can make a mod for $12 then a modder can make them for $40. I understand most modders don't own CNC machines so they pay companies to do it for them but the cost price is definately not $300 or even $100.

I've heard of thailand companies selling Nzonic V3s for $115 wholesale price and resell at $200-$250 to keep them worth money.

The bottom line is, the Nzonic V3s are a $115 mod, if you paid more then you got ripped off by a vendor. Same applies with about 90% of other mods. Now keep in mind, if the creators are willing to sell them for $115 cost price would be about half that.

I'm sorry, are implying that if modders don't own multi million dollar production facilities they should just not produce anything? People don't "need" to buy clones. There is plenty of vape gear available. I call shenanigans on people who say "oh I really want to support the creator, but I can't wait 4 whole weeks!" For that matter, aside from very few exceptions, most items can be had with a reasonable amount of Google skills.

Also, your comments about cost and manufacturing prove you have ZERO experience in business or manufacturing. Comparing the cost of goods from a couple of people to a massive manufacturing complex is asinine. Your comment on 12 vs 40 dollars is just as silly. So because the metal is worth 5 bucks, that's the cost? No, what about the hundreds of hours of work it took to design, test and perfect... Oh, but the knock off manufacturer just circumvented that, you know baby without the birthing pains....

Seriously, did you think before you posted this?

 

[Ref Minor]

I'm not going to bother reading another clone thread with how the other one went. But I will say, no cloning is not ethical. If Sifo Dyas never visited the Kaminoans the republic would have lost some systems but never gained the military strength to develop into a strong authoritarian imperial power.

This is my post of the month, well done that man.

 

[FLExJuice]

Are you guys still debating about flashlights with vaporizers

If you can design an ecig that can refill and rebuild itself and runs on Arc reactor energy, then you just might have something you can patent.

I got an idea that anyone is welcome to clone. It's an Iron Man PV. It flies to you when you call it and you can vape underwater.

No really, an Iron Man PV would be awesome.

It's Friday! Party on! Vape on!

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

I went through 10 pages of this thread and saw exactly TWO posts that correctly pointed out that all e-cigs on the market today are takeoffs based on a patent by a Chinese, Hon Li.

I see lots of rants about Chinese labor practices, Chinese disregard for western patents and Chinese ignorance of western concepts of the term, "ethics."

I don't care for the Chinese communists, but I'm impressed with the Chinese capitalists. They seem to have a better way of doing business than westerners, who think they also invented fireworks, noodles, the compass and paper currency.

They laugh at western arrogance, western concepts and western attitudes. Politely, of course. No Chinese is ever impolite unless preparing for war, which is a most "interesting" process.

Look here, you gwai lo. You either learn and adapt, or you are overcome. We seem to have a hard time learning, much less adapting.

 

[dr g]

edit: srs bsns

 

[stevegmu]

The original patents for an electronic cigarette were also granted 40 years ago, to an American.

 

[FLExJuice]

...and we all know who invented the Internet.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Two paths: legal and ethical. They both end in the same place.

(This discussion assumes use of the device in the United States)

On the legal side, if a device is patented, either with a utility or design patent, it can't be copied without it being seized and its manufacturer and distributor sued. If it's not patented, it has no legal protection.

On the ethical side, an inventor can choose to put the invention in the public domain by producing and selling it without patent. If an inventor chooses to do that, there are no ethical issues with producing or using a copy.

I think that's about that. If its not protected by patent, it's fair game.

 

[xan13x]

Two paths: legal and ethical. They both end in the same place.

(This discussion assumes use of the device in the United States)

On the legal side, if a device is patented, either with a utility or design patent, it can't be copied without it being seized and its manufacturer and distributor sued. If it's not patented, it has no legal protection.

On the ethical side, an inventor can choose to put the invention in the public domain by producing and selling it without patent. If an inventor chooses to do that, there are no ethical issues with producing or using a copy.

I think that's about that. If its not protected by patent, it's fair game.

Or an inventor can patent a device, put it in the market, and half the world can steal the design with no recourse... Of course this doesn't apply to ecigs, but in general, just because something can be stolen without punishment doesn't make it ok to steal.