Is it ignorance?

[AndriaD]

Oh, no, do not even get me started...!

(OK, too late for that... )

One of my wive's aunts is a retired nurse. Back when I smoked, she used to give me those lenghty lectures on the harms of smoking. As if *I* was so dumb as to NOT know already about those harms.

Once, I got on sarcasm mode, and replied something like "Really? I did not know about that..."

Well, she did not even get the message. My response only encouraged her that time...

For her, it was soooo easy to "just quit", that the ONLY reason I was still smoking is because I SIMPLY wanted to.
When confronted with the fact that NO, it's NOT "soooo easy", she talked to me about "Pharma medicines". As if I didn't realize those existed. As a nurse, she was not informed about the fact that NRT's are the only "medicines" that have the luxory of presenting a success rate of 5%, and STILL be allowed in the market. If it was something to control diabetes, for example, it would have been removed from the shelves long ago. I guess her reasoning was something like "It's a MEDICINE, so it MUST be effective, right?"

Almost six years ago, I started vaping. Quit smoking in a day and an half. And yet, no praising words, no real interest from her. Maybe she thought that I had "not really quit".

Lately, the biased media has arrived at Portugal. Now, she lectures me on the "dangers of vaping" she has heard on the news. Nevermind the fact that *I* had six full years to make my own, PROPER research

Bottom line: she must believe she has some kind of master degree on BOTH smoking and vaping, even if she NEVER smoked in her entire life, and has only recently been aware of the vaping "new style"... c'mon... really ??

I can so completely relate; I used to get a lot of this crap from my ex, who had no comprehension at all why I could not simply "just quit" -- either drinking or smoking. And guess what? He's never smoked, and only rarely had an alcoholic beverage.

From my long experience with sobriety, I know now that it really is a matter of "just don't drink" -- but it took many, many years of AA to be able to "just not drink" with any degree of happiness, or total lack of concern; at the very beginning, it required a whole roomful of people telling me on a daily basis it was possible, with these 12 steps... and oh yeah, a whole lot of "white knuckles."

And even after I was well-established in sobriety and understood all the principles of the 12 step program... I still could not quit smoking, until I found something that replaces it with some degree of likeness -- I even need the WTA to stave off cravings.

And I agree; there really is no point trying to communicate these TRUTHS to someone who has no ability to grasp the nature of addiction, and no willingness to even try. The best thing you can give them is the back of your head, because they won't listen to a single thing you say, they think they know ALLLLLLLLL about it... even though they know NOTHING.

Andria

 

[jpargana]

(...)

And I agree; there really is no point trying to communicate these TRUTHS to someone who has no ability to grasp the nature of addiction, and no willingness to even try. The best thing you can give them is the back of your head, because they won't listen to a single thing you say, they think they know ALLLLLLLLL about it... even though they know NOTHING.

Andria

What if I told you that the first time I read this, I read it as "The best thing you can give them is the back of your hand"

(Is she advising me to simply slap those people?? )

(Which, on a second thought, would not be entirely innapropriate for SOME of those people )

 

[AndriaD]

What if I told you that the first time I read this, I read it as "The best thing you can give them is the back of your hand"

(Is she advising me to simply slap those people?? )

(Which, on a second thought, would not be entirely innapropriate for SOME of those people )

LOL!! Well, I admit, it's very tempting in most of these cases of total dunces trying to tell people how to do a thing that they have never done or experienced in any way -- I mean, if I was to go out and try to repair our vehicle, I'm sure my husband would be very tempted to slap ME, since I don't have the first clue what half the stuff under that hood even IS... But, although it would certainly be satisfying, the repercussions are unpleasant... so I'll have to stick with "back of your HEAD."

But there sure are a lot of ANTZ I'd dearly love to slap some sense into.

Andria

 

[Norrin]

Well actually... of that third who went back to smoking for health reasons, probably about half may have had a legitimate problem with vaping -- some people have a lot of trouble with the various chemicals and/or flavors and/or ingredients in the flavors. If one simply cannot establish a way to vape that is clearly a marked improvement in one's health, but is rather a *detriment* to one's health, then one simply cannot vape -- and for most of us, that means returning to smoking -- we know the dangers of that habit, sure enough, but those are generally long-term dangers, not immediate dangers.

It's harm REDUCTION, not harm ELIMINATION, and some of the harms of vaping, for some people, are worse than the immediate harms of smoking. A perfect example would be, if I were to suddenly become allergic to PG -- I have a long and varied history of allergies, so I'm really hoping it doesn't happen -- but if it did? I'd have to stop vaping, because VG completely suffocates me; I can't vape more than about 20% in my total mix.

Andria

Since alergy to PG is a very small percentage of the population and to VG is even rarer although the effects are not as bad I don't see these as major reasons to go back to smoking. So you might expect 5%, but even saying 10% did it for this reason it still would leave about 20% going back to smoking because they think it's safer than vaping.

 

[skoony]

Since alergy to PG is a very small percentage of the population and to VG is even rarer although the effects are not as bad I don't see these as major reasons to go back to smoking. So you might expect 5%, but even saying 10% did it for this reason it still would leave about 20% going back to smoking because they think it's safer than vaping.

right off the top of my head i believe 2-3 % of the population may have
an allergic reaction to PG. then you have to factor in how many of these
people will have a severe enough reaction to the amount of PG used in
their e-juice. some find adjusting mixtures of PG with VG will eliminate
their discomfort.some will have to go 100% VG.
note that VG is used in inhalers for those with severe allergic reactions
to PG.
regards
mike

 

[The Cloud Minder]

So, yesterday I was having a talk with a buddy. And I pulled out my new mech mod, well, new to me. Anyway!

So I pull it out and blow a huge cloud, felt nice, felt freeing. I FELT ALIVE. Well, he looks at me. Dead straight face and says "You know the FDA has proven E-cigs to be worse for you than cigarettes right?"

I couldn't believe it. Lost my mind. Asked him how he knew and he said "Google that crap man, the FDA has proven it's bad for you"

The more he talks the more I'm about to lose it, when suddenly he asks "Do you even know what's in that?" and I said in my head "FINALLY I CAN INFORM THIS PEASANT"

So I did straightforward "Vegetable Glycerin, Nicotine, and flavoring. That's it" and he said "And all that stuff will kill you, especially the nicotine" and I tried to fight back and inform and tell him the studies on ecigs that state they promote health. But he just said "If the FDA says it's bad for you, it's bad for you. They're the government, they're not gonna try to take away from your health. And nicotine is on warning labels, so, clearly it's bad for you. Anyone can tell you that." And he walked away.

Is it pure ignorance? Do people honestly believe this way? Or do they just not care enough to even try to learn? Anybody else run into these types of situations? Because lord knows I'm stumped to hell on how to even approach him about it again.

Have you tried making friends with people who aren't idiots?

 

[AndriaD]

Since alergy to PG is a very small percentage of the population and to VG is even rarer although the effects are not as bad I don't see these as major reasons to go back to smoking. So you might expect 5%, but even saying 10% did it for this reason it still would leave about 20% going back to smoking because they think it's safer than vaping.

The effects of VG, to me, are worse than pretty much anything I can think of, since too much of it renders me almost completely incapable of breathing. And it's not even an allergy -- it's just too thick and too sticky for these asthmatic lungs to handle.

As I said, I hope I never do become allergic to PG, since I have to vape at least 80% PG, usually more like 85%, and of course it's a major ingredient of my rescue inhalers. So yes, in the unlikely event that I did develop an allergy to PG, I would have to stop vaping. Which would probably mean that within a week, I would be smoking again. When I was unable to vape for 4 days this summer after my appendectomy, I learned the truth of this -- if I can't vape, pretty soon I'm going to smoke.

But as for those who think smoking is safer than vaping... THAT *IS* pure ignorance. Ignorance can be cured, with instruction; the bigger problem is the absolute STUPIDITY -- which is, after all, forever -- of those who are TELLING people that smoking is safer than vaping -- or maybe it's not stupidity, maybe it's just plain old greed, using a cigarette-protection strategy. The best we can do is try to get the word out, the actual truth, because there is probably no way to counter either stupidity or greed -- humanity has been trying for a long time, but those qualities seem to endure.

Andria

 

[deadmeadow]

I have heard of lot people try to say how "the chemicals in e-cigarettes are horrible for you".
And they truly believe that. They might not even be able to name to me what these chemicals are but since the news did a few minute segment on it without any unbiased studies or statistics included, it must be true.
I could try with all my might to prove them wrong but they aren't going to hear me, they'll believe that perfect smiling news anchor with the expensive suit they see everyday on T.V. before they believe me.

 

[AndriaD]

I have heard of lot people try to say how "the chemicals in e-cigarettes are horrible for you".
And they truly believe that. They might not even be able to name to me what these chemicals are but since the news did a few minute segment on it without any unbiased studies or statistics included, it must be true.
I could try with all my might to prove them wrong but they aren't going to hear me, they'll believe that perfect smiling wealthy news anchor with the expensive suit they see everyday on T.V. before they believe me.

My mother is like this -- if it's on The News, well then it MUST be true. The only thing that finally got her to shut up about it was the fact that it really is working for me, as a way to not smoke anymore, and she's very glad about that, but I know she still has her doubts about its safety -- thanks to those smiley happy idiots on The News.

But heck, I've been married to my husband for 27 yrs, and I still sometimes have a hard time getting thru to him that TV news weather is about the worst weather forecast to look at. I consult weatherchannel.com and look at the doppler map for myself, and compare that to whatever they're forecasting. They're not *always* right, but a lot more often than regular weather forecasters on the news.

Weather forecasters, doctors, and lawyers... the only people who still get paid, even when they're wrong.

Andria

 

[jpargana]

(...)


But there sure are a lot of ANTZ I'd dearly love to slap some sense into.

Andria

Don't do that. Please.

Slap them for fun alone, if you must.

However, trying to do that to give them some sense will only bring you two things:

Frustration, and a sore hand.
And that will only ruin the initial fun.

 

[The Cloud Minder]

Don't do that. Please.

Slap them for fun alone, if you must.

However, trying to do that to give them some sense will only bring you two things:

Frustration, and a sore hand.
And that will only ruin the initial fun.

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

― George Carlin

 

[ian-field]

So, yesterday I was having a talk with a buddy. And I pulled out my new mech mod, well, new to me. Anyway!

So I pull it out and blow a huge cloud, felt nice, felt freeing. I FELT ALIVE. Well, he looks at me. Dead straight face and says "You know the FDA has proven E-cigs to be worse for you than cigarettes right?"

I couldn't believe it. Lost my mind. Asked him how he knew and he said "Google that crap man, the FDA has proven it's bad for you"

The more he talks the more I'm about to lose it, when suddenly he asks "Do you even know what's in that?" and I said in my head "FINALLY I CAN INFORM THIS PEASANT"

So I did straightforward "Vegetable Glycerin, Nicotine, and flavoring. That's it" and he said "And all that stuff will kill you, especially the nicotine" and I tried to fight back and inform and tell him the studies on ecigs that state they promote health. But he just said "If the FDA says it's bad for you, it's bad for you. They're the government, they're not gonna try to take away from your health. And nicotine is on warning labels, so, clearly it's bad for you. Anyone can tell you that." And he walked away.

Is it pure ignorance? Do people honestly believe this way? Or do they just not care enough to even try to learn? Anybody else run into these types of situations? Because lord knows I'm stumped to hell on how to even approach him about it again.

It was recently announced on the news, health experts are advising the WHO that E-cigarettes could save millions of lives.

 

[KODIAK (TM)]

Is it pure ignorance?

Yes. Life is just easier for some this way. (I envy those basterds. )

 

[jpargana]

It was recently announced on the news, health experts are advising the WHO that E-cigarettes could save millions of lives.

Trouble is, unfortunately, those health experts will be deemed by public "health" "experts" as rogues, shills and stooges. Not "real" experts, because, as soon as they dare to speak against the "normalized tobacco control", they are no longer "in their right minds", or even worse, they have been bought by the evil e-cigarette industry.

Remember how "public health" was so quick to close around in defense of John Ashton? Even when his behaviour was despicable? Just because some of us dared to show him his nonsense ?

http://theindefatigablefrog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/clipped-but-published.html

How can someone who obviously despises a group of the "public" be expected to have that public's best interest in mind, when discussing things that will affect that public's health ?

 

[Downtown]

I'm starting to believe that people will believe what they want to.

Hell, when we were kids we probably thought there was a monster in the closet even though you checked it a billion times before the lights went out.

Guess some people still have a "monster in the closet" complex.

 

[ian-field]

I'm starting to believe that people will believe what they want to.

Hell, when we were kids we probably thought there was a monster in the closet even though you checked it a billion times before the lights went out.

Guess some people still have a "monster in the closet" complex.

And just exactly how long has it taken THAT penny to drop?!

 

[ian-field]

I'm starting to believe that people will believe what they want to.

Hell, when we were kids we probably thought there was a monster in the closet even though you checked it a billion times before the lights went out.

Guess some people still have a "monster in the closet" complex.

And just exactly how long has it taken THAT penny to drop?!

 

[Tranquility Base]

....Guess some people still have a "monster in the closet" complex.

Or a monkey.

 

[Nytebreed]

Once upon a time our government told us that Agent Orange was safe. The "experts" selling it to them told them so.
How did that work out?

 

[LMS62]

I'm starting to believe that people will believe what they want to.

Hell, when we were kids we probably thought there was a monster in the closet even though you checked it a billion times before the lights went out.

Guess some people still have a "monster in the closet" complex.

Wait, you...you...you mean there isn't a monster in the closet??????