Is nicotene itself actually harmful?

[supermarket]

I'm trying to wrap my head around this. "I don't need surgery, it isn't necessary, but I still want that doctor to slice me open. Think of it as a hobby. I quit the nicotine because he told me that as long as I was using nicotine he wouldn't do it."

There are many forms of surgery that aren't "necessary". Some women have their breasts cut off and replaced, to avoid breast cancer....that is a pre-emptive surgery, designed to limit the risk of breast cancer. That could be one example.

Another example - I have 2 cysts on me, that aren't life threatening, or cancerous or tumors....but the cause a mild pain and I could haev them removed. The surgery isn't "necessary" to continue my daily functions, or prevent serious illness or pain, but could be done to stop the mild pain I sometimes have from them.

Another example: plastic surgery


There are TONS of examples of surgery like that. Just saying.

edit: I don't think the doctor/surgeon would ask you to QUIT nicotine, either. They would simply request you don't smoke/vape within a certain time frame prior to the surgery.

 

[bluecat]

This is an interesting discussion and if anything, it demonstrates the lack of information, misinformation and inaccuracies out there. What I have discovered in my own 'googling' is that there is an awful lot of websites that use the words smoking, tobacco and nicotine interchangeably. Also, they seem to copy from other websites without investigating the accuracy of the information. Because of this, you can't always take what is being stated as fact.

One of the most often used statements about nicotine is that it constricts blood vessels. What I would like to know is how much, what studies have been done? That information I haven't been able to find.

Elevating blood pressure is another generalized statement with no detail. I did find one study that there wasn't a significant rise but if your pressure is high to begin with, it may be a concern. This was a while ago and I don't have the link.

As for elective surgery, many plastic surgeons will not operate unless you have stopped all nicotine at least four weeks before and after because they claim that because it constricts blood vessels, it affects the healing process (back to my question of how much, etc.). However, it's interesting that there are studies being done in which patients are given nicotine patches after surgery because its ability to decrease pain. Confusing, no?

With all this said, is nicotine any worse than many of the medicines prescribed by physicians everyday? I don't know, but if you every see some these medications advertised on TV with the list of possible side effects given, it's downright scary at times.

I think the vast majority of us here would love to be nicotine free and probably most of us are striving for that. I just wish that more of the information that is being given to us by medical professionals, government agencies and legitimate organizations was more accurate and unbiased.

Talk to your health care profession if you a want the correct information. I use drugs.com for quick references.

Nicotine Side Effects in Detail - Drugs.com

 

[Sane Asylum]

Talk to your health care profession if you a want the correct information. I use drugs.com for quick references.

Nicotine Side Effects in Detail - Drugs.com

Unfortunately, even the so called best health care professionals are not always correct and don't always have all the information available.

 

[ScottP]

Everyone says that nicotine raises blood presssure. But by how much ? 1%, 5%, 20 % ???

Obviously it makes a difference, since 1% is hardly anything to worry about much.

However, after searching, I could find NO information on a particular number. Just vague statements about elevated pressure.

Since I have my own blood pressure meter, I tried experimenting by "chain vaping" for several minutes and measuring blood pressure before and after. I could see no measurable difference. (Readings vary by several percent randomly so it's hard to see any small change.)
I know this is not very scientific, but it still makes me wonder.

Just my personal experience, but caffeine affects my BP more than nic ever has. I go to the dentist 4x per year and they always check BP. Over the years, I have noticed that regardless of how many analogs I smoked, or how much vaping I do before I go, my BP is always normal UNLESS I have had 1 Coke. If I have had a Coke that day my BP is elevated. Not enough to be a major concern, but elevated by a noticeable degree none the less. Also my wife who was a long term smoker and now a vaper used to have high BP until she stopped drinking caffeinated beverages. Now her BP is back to normal with no medications and with still vaping 18mg/ml juice.

 

[ScottP]

If you guessed nicotine you would also be correct. Nicotine and caffeine are both stimulants.

Caffeine 250-500 mgs to a person never exposed would start feeling the effects of overdose.

Nicotine Lethal at 40-60 mgs.

Both can be absorbed through the skin.

That is my point. People are running around demonizing nicotine, preaching about the dangers of it, and crying to save the children from it. These very same hypocrites are in the meantime happily guzzling down caffeine in large quantities and many of them have no problem stopping on the way to school to get little Johnny or little Susie a Venti 6 pump extra caramel mocha latte from Starbucks to help keep them alert in school. My daughter is in middle school and more than half of her friends are completely addicted to Starbucks and are like little fiends.

 

[Nermal]

As for elective surgery, many plastic surgeons will not operate unless you have stopped all nicotine at least four weeks before and after because they claim that because it constricts blood vessels, it affects the healing process (back to my question of how much, etc.). However, it's interesting that there are studies being done in which patients are given nicotine patches after surgery because its ability to decrease pain. Confusing, no?

I recently had an operation performed by a plastic surgeon, and the releases, acknowledgements, and so forth brought two words to mind: DEFENSIVE MEDICINE. Like, hey guy, if it don't work, don't you go blaming me.

And yes, the how much question is important. How much is also an interesting question when someone cites benefits in regard to Alzheimer's, Parkinson's disease, and the like. Are the numbers strong enough to rule out coincidence, or not?

 

[TyPie]

If you guessed nicotine you would also be correct. Nicotine and caffeine are both stimulants.
Caffeine 250-500 mgs to a person never exposed would start feeling the effects of overdose.
Nicotine Lethal at 40-60 mgs.

Both can be absorbed through the skin.

Excellent thread!
(I'm gonna have to cut out the weekly bath in Starbucks special blend, though. I just knew I was feeling a little somethin' extra after that bath. Who knew???)

 

[bruiser]

About that lethal dose of nicotine, check the following link.

Nicotine lethal dose in humans: a common argument by regulatory authorities, based on poor science

 

[NICnurse]

I completely agree with the fact that HOW a person reacts to nicotine is just as personal as how we react to caffeine.
Case in point: me.
I cannot drink coffee without getting the jitters. I only drink hot tea or iced tea. But I can drink gallons of tea and have no effect other than not feeling like I want to crawl to the nearest cot and take a nap. With coffee, I feel nauseated, sweaty, and my heart races. Now my mom, she can chug coffee by the gallon with zero effects. But she cannot touch tea of any kind or SHE gets nauseated and feels dizzy. 2 types of caffeine, 2 people, 2 different reactions to the administration and type of caffeine.

Now take nicotine. When I smoked, by BP was 110/65. Now that I vape, it is 102/60. I am considered slightly hypotensive no matter HOW I get my nicotine. BUT.....I am also an active 36 year old, BMI of 20, normal weight, normal cholesterol, I do not consume alcohol more than a few times a year, and I have no significant family history of hypertension. Compare my stats to someone who is 40, overweight, sedentary, and pounds greasy cheeseburgers and fries all day. Plus drinks alcohol and their own weight in sugary drinks. AND has a BMI over 26. They quite possibly have hypertension. BUT.....is it due to nicotine? Can't really tell since they have every other risk factor for hypertension going for them as well. Add in a positive family history for HTN and ya know what? NICOTINE will be the ONE thing the dr picks out of the line up to bark at you about when he tells you to modify your lifestyle to reduce your high blood pressure. NICOTINE will be the one that gets the blame. Based on my medical experiences, I would hedge a bet that the nicotine is the LEAST of this hypothetical persons' worries. They should exercise, eat properly, lose weight, cut out the crap food and the crap drinks, and THEN evaluate their BP. Bet it went down whether or not they gave up nicotine.

When you look at the landscape of America, obesity and poor eating habits are THE biggest epidemic to future health complications such as morbid obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and hypertension. And I CAN back this statement up with loads of credible references. Our eating habits are going to be our demise if we don't find a way to turn the poor diet train around. More people are overweight and obese than aren't.

One more thing that I have mentioned a few times on here that bears reminding. It is easy to blame nicotine and vaping on EVERY poor health experience we get. Every day, I read "I have a sore throat/gas/indigestion/high cholesterol/high blood pressure/chest pain/cough/numbness/tingling/constipation/......../etc" and EVERY time the poster is trying to correlate it with vaping!! 9 times out of 10, it has NOTHING to do with vaping OR nicotine. So why does nicotine become the scape goat? Because we do NOT want to face the fact that most of us make poor health choices with EVERYTHING except our choice to quit smoking.

Annnnnndddd....stepping off soap box.

 

[JulesXsmokr]

We are all trying to turn into health freaks now!
Nah, I don't think so.. We're just trying to be a lot healthier than our old someone who continued to devour the multitude of poisons the FDA and the rest of the so called "Health Community" let us consume in cigarettes.
We (I) have a plan a we're sticking to it until further notice. Right now, there are no notices that says we are doing something even remotely as harmful as smoking a cigarette.

 

[Robino1]

I completely agree with the fact that HOW a person reacts to nicotine is just as personal as how we react to caffeine.
Case in point: me.
I cannot drink coffee without getting the jitters. I only drink hot tea or iced tea. But I can drink gallons of tea and have no effect other than not feeling like I want to crawl to the nearest cot and take a nap. With coffee, I feel nauseated, sweaty, and my heart races. Now my mom, she can chug coffee by the gallon with zero effects. But she cannot touch tea of any kind or SHE gets nauseated and feels dizzy. 2 types of caffeine, 2 people, 2 different reactions to the administration and type of caffeine.

Now take nicotine. When I smoked, by BP was 110/65. Now that I vape, it is 102/60. I am considered slightly hypotensive no matter HOW I get my nicotine. BUT.....I am also an active 36 year old, BMI of 20, normal weight, normal cholesterol, I do not consume alcohol more than a few times a year, and I have no significant family history of hypertension. Compare my stats to someone who is 40, overweight, sedentary, and pounds greasy cheeseburgers and fries all day. Plus drinks alcohol and their own weight in sugary drinks. AND has a BMI over 26. They quite possibly have hypertension. BUT.....is it due to nicotine? Can't really tell since they have every other risk factor for hypertension going for them as well. Add in a positive family history for HTN and ya know what? NICOTINE will be the ONE thing the dr picks out of the line up to bark at you about when he tells you to modify your lifestyle to reduce your high blood pressure. NICOTINE will be the one that gets the blame. Based on my medical experiences, I would hedge a bet that the nicotine is the LEAST of this hypothetical persons' worries. They should exercise, eat properly, lose weight, cut out the crap food and the crap drinks, and THEN evaluate their BP. Bet it went down whether or not they gave up nicotine.

When you look at the landscape of America, obesity and poor eating habits are THE biggest epidemic to future health complications such as morbid obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and hypertension. And I CAN back this statement up with loads of credible references. Our eating habits are going to be our demise if we don't find a way to turn the poor diet train around. More people are overweight and obese than aren't.

One more thing that I have mentioned a few times on here that bears reminding. It is easy to blame nicotine and vaping on EVERY poor health experience we get. Every day, I read "I have a sore throat/gas/indigestion/high cholesterol/high blood pressure/chest pain/cough/numbness/tingling/constipation/......../etc" and EVERY time the poster is trying to correlate it with vaping!! 9 times out of 10, it has NOTHING to do with vaping OR nicotine. So why does nicotine become the scape goat? Because we do NOT want to face the fact that most of us make poor health choices with EVERYTHING except our choice to quit smoking.

Annnnnndddd....stepping off soap box.

I like your soap box!

One of the reasons that I will continue to vape, it helps me control my eating habit. Every other time I have tried to quit smoking, I would automatically snack. Weight gain was a given. Not much, but enough to have me say forget this! I was miserable because I wasn't smoking and on top of that....gaining weight? No thanks.

I'm just glad that I can get my nic in a healthier way and not gain weight.

 

[EvilZoe]

I like your soap box!

One of the reasons that I will continue to vape, it helps me control my eating habit. Every other time I have tried to quit smoking, I would automatically snack. Weight gain was a given. Not much, but enough to have me say forget this! I was miserable because I wasn't smoking and on top of that....gaining weight? No thanks.

I'm just glad that I can get my nic in a healthier way and not gain weight.

Yeah, I find I'm eating a LOT less and not buying the candy or bakery stuff I did when smoking. Also, I'm drinking more water in between my Diet Cokes so that has to be better for me, too.

Being able to breathe again AND losing weight without effort? Yes, please....lol

 

[NICnurse]

I like your soap box!

One of the reasons that I will continue to vape, it helps me control my eating habit. Every other time I have tried to quit smoking, I would automatically snack. Weight gain was a given. Not much, but enough to have me say forget this! I was miserable because I wasn't smoking and on top of that....gaining weight? No thanks.

I'm just glad that I can get my nic in a healthier way and not gain weight.

Amen Robin! Same here girlfriend. My previous cold turkey attempts turned me into a cranky chocolate eating machine! Like, picture a wet, cold, hissing cat in a corner with a pile of Hershey kisses wrappers around me. Hissing. Did I mention hissing?

 

[LeftHandBlack]

They are testing it now for diabetes/parkinsons.alzheimers, Just think how many will die if they ban it.

Really! Im a Type 1 Diabetic and my Nurse gives me crap about smoking and nicotine every yearly check up. Wouldnt that be something if nicotine therapy can lead to a cure. I would definately give it a try!

 

[GaryInTexas]

Amen Robin! Same here girlfriend. My previous cold turkey attempts turned me into a cranky chocolate eating machine! Like, picture a wet, cold, hissing cat in a corner with a pile of Hershey kisses wrappers around me. Hissing. Did I mention hissing?

Note to self- Do not read Nicnurse comments late at night. Nightmares a coming!

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

Amen Robin! Same here girlfriend. My previous cold turkey attempts turned me into a cranky chocolate eating machine! Like, picture a wet, cold, hissing cat in a corner with a pile of Hershey kisses wrappers around me. Hissing. Did I mention hissing?

Wait...I thought that was the womans universal sign for "LEAVE ME ALONE or DON'T TALK TO ME!"

That and growling...I get growling alot..

 

[NICnurse]

Getting between a woman and her chocolate is a dangerous place!

 

[Ryedan]

Nicotine causes vascular restriction at the capillary level of blood vessels. If you are injured in any way and/or have cardiovascular problems, it won't help you get any better. Since the blood is restricted from flowing throughout tissues as it normally would, if you had a broken leg while using nicotine, you would heal at an extremely longer rate than if you didn't....Edit* didn't use nicotine, not that if you didn't have a broken leg, cuz obviously, you'll heal a broken leg a lot faster if it isn't broken.

I had to comment on this because I happen to have broken my ankle about a decade ago. Bottom of both bones snapped. They used a plate and one wire to screw things back together again and it's been pretty good since. Took the cast off after five weeks and I began rehab. In the words of my surgeon after he saw the X-rays at the time, 'it's good, you don't have to baby it' and I didn't.

I healed normally and I was smoking a PAD back then. Now, I have no idea if I might have healed a couple of days faster if I had not been smoking, but to say that because I smoked caused me to heal 'at an extremely longer rate' is false. I also spent about fifteen years working as a machinist. I cut and otherwise banged myself up pretty regularly, specially at first. I was smoking that same PAD all through that time and never had any problems with delayed healing.

Now, if you have any proof that what you said is the norm, I am all ears , but I doubt I am all that special.

 

[CommaHolly]

I'm trying to wrap my head around this. "I don't need surgery, it isn't necessary, but I still want that doctor to slice me open. Think of it as a hobby. I quit the nicotine because he told me that as long as I was using nicotine he wouldn't do it."

There are many surgeries you are better off having,,,,,,,,but aren't completely necessary. Breast reduction,,,,,,,placement of a cochlear implant, etc,,,,,,

I probably used the wrong word,,,,,elective would have been a better word

 

[suspectK]

Nicotine causes vascular restriction at the capillary level of blood vessels. If you are injured in any way and/or have cardiovascular problems, it won't help you get any better. Since the blood is restricted from flowing throughout tissues as it normally would, if you had a broken leg while using nicotine, you would heal at an extremely longer rate than if you didn't....Edit* didn't use nicotine, not that if you didn't have a broken leg, cuz obviously, you'll heal a broken leg a lot faster if it isn't broken.

I had to comment on this because I happen to have broken my ankle about a decade ago. Bottom of both bones snapped. They used a plate and one wire to screw things back together again and it's been pretty good since. Took the cast off after five weeks and I began rehab. In the words of my surgeon after he saw the X-rays at the time, 'it's good, you don't have to baby it' and I didn't.

I healed normally and I was smoking a PAD back then. Now, I have no idea if I might have healed a couple of days faster if I had not been smoking, but to say that because I smoked caused me to heal 'at an extremely longer rate' is false. I also spent about fifteen years working as a machinist. I cut and otherwise banged myself up pretty regularly, specially at first. I was smoking that same PAD all through that time and never had any problems with delayed healing.

Now, if you have any proof that what you said is the norm, I am all ears , but I doubt I am all that special.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetylcholine
Yeah, yeah..Wikipedia..well,

Not to mention, dopamine and adrenaline will cause vascular restriction. I'd get into trouble giving you a good example on that.. but many of the neurotransmitters nicotine releases cause vascular restriction. I can agree that I shouldn't have put an "extremely longer rate," but I did..

I don't know where the picture will be attached, but incase it's not down here..pretend it is..